World domination

[unmerged(599294)]

Hi,

I have few question and notes about CK1 and would appreciate any feedback. I'll lump them into one posting, if you do not mind.

Questions:
- Is there any final goal in the game? I started Hastings scenario (1066) as Duke of Lorraine, English invaded and weakened French king, then he got excommunicated, I used this chance and all my prestige to grab claim on french crown, then quick blitzkrieg and I am the King of France, then visit over English channel, then Spain and etc. by 1250 every province in the known world belonged to french kingdom. Then ~50 years were spent to stabilize kingdom. It is 1306 now and I have a question -- now what? Kingdom is stable, I have ~1mil gold, hundreds of thousands of prestige, even Pope is my vassal (among other ~650). Religious map looks quite hilarious right now -- about 10 orthodox provinces and the rest of the world (including Mecca) are faithful Catholics :-D

- The only goal I could think of is to actually get every province under my direct control (yes, I won't get any income if I do that) -- I noticed that vassal's response to title revocation is determined by relationships at the moment of request, i.e. if I ask all vassals at the same moment -- they all will yield... Then I'll need to kick out the rest (those that had more than one province). $1mil should be enough to survive until 1450 while directly owning entire world (and time will go faster without events from those pesky rebellious vassals) The only thing that stops me is tediousness of doing 650xN clicks. I wonder if I do this and then import my world into Europe Universalis -- how it will look like there?

- What is the difference between CK1 and CK2? I have them both on steam and I did not want to start CK2 until I am done with CK1, then I came across some post in internet that claimed that CK2 is essentially the same as CK1 with different interface. Is it true? Is there any point playing CK2 after CK1?


Notes:

- CK1 on steam is Deus Vult 2.1Beta... Come on! Beta? Why would you put beta on steam? Is it even allowed? This game crashes regularly, especially in vassals/brides registry -- does not look like a final product.

- Same for percentages -- there are events that reduce kingdom stability by 1 and then by extra 1 with 50% probability (very funny when you have 600 vassals and third of them are rebellious). I've seen these events about 20 times -- only 1 time it did not reduce stability by 2! Does not look like 50% to me... or maybe I am too unlucky? Same for event that make kids stressed with 30% chance -- heh, more like 90%, according to my experience...

- Relationships with liege are too cozy -- your vassal's responses are strictly bound by current value of relationship with them, while on the other hand you could reject call to arms even when having 100% relationship with your liege. Liege also always support you in the war with other kingdom -- easy to abuse it.

- appearance of papal state/mongols/knight orders is curious -- they simply magically pop up on your land (thus taking it away). Lame... Especially mongols are -- every time they pop up (with 80k army), I grab 15k army and crush them -- only because 80k host is divided into chunks of 20k and only one chunk has commander.

- Bubonic Plague turned out to be funny -- many provinces get immunity to it in 3-5 months... :-\

- it does not really matter how you prioritize research -- if you need tech, do not give land to children, wait for them to complain, promise to give it to them, when they complain again -- declare him bastard. For next few years he'll work really hard trying to get rid of that status, producing high-level tech. I was really surprised to discover that after one son invented few 5-lvl technologies in a matter of 2-3 years.

I had more notes/questions, but can't remember them right now... Will ask later

Do not take me wrong -- I found game to be very entertaining (steam says I spent 165 hours in it O_O). It just that few hiccups started to really bother me after all this time, especially regular crashes...

Regards,
Michael.

 

[Nosferatu]

I have some serious doubts that it is possible to conquer the world in this game unless you are playing with easy difficulty and not agressive AI. If you did it then you have my respects.

A question to a seasoned players:

Is it really possible to conquer the world and convert every province to your religion in this game? Sometimes the situation is very dangerous just at the moment when you are having a large empire. Realm duress may mean a demise of the dynasty in such conditions. When I created a large Norwegian empire the rebellious vassals immediately started a civil war and captured all of my lands and some other countries also declared war on me.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

The Beta version of 18th october is the last one if i remember correctly. As there are several i'm not sure if this one is the correct last one, though should be.

To the points you make about the game, you seem to play a different game, for instance the immunity cases usually needed much more time to happen.
I doubt very much that you conquered the whole world, though maybe on a very easy setting. Try to play on "normal" at least without reloading.
A second game on normal withoput reloading and try the DVIP Mod or the one by Veldmarschalk. They add a lot to the vanilla game.
I currently dont have the time to answer your questions fully, maybe later.

There are many differences compared to CK2 and it definitely is another game, but as you already own it, i recommend just playing it.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

So back again......

- There is no final goal other then surviving and playing the game the way you like. Spread your dynasty, have every vassal be of your dynasty, roleplay according to your traits, form Russia and survive the mongols.
Try WC with the Orkneys, whatever you like really. Or start with Thouars, one of the rather weak counties. Every game turns out different based on traits and events. Don't reload other then game concept misunderstandings or such.
The point and joy of the game is rather not World Conquest and abusing all gamey methods, but playing the game like life. If shit happens, it happens.

- There is a lot of difference between CK1 and CK2. Dejure system, CB system, no more reputation, different relations, barons, many more features, more complex .....everything actually.

- The 2.1 Beta patch of 18Oct2008 is the last official patch. Yes, in the past Paradox had a different patchig system then most other developers.

- Events depend on the traits you have, the laws in your realm, piety, prestige etc.

- Yep, there are gamey methods. Don't use them if you don't like or roleplay. The game is not about highscore and boasting about it on the forum.

- appearance of knight orders, mongols, papacy................event driven.

- The plagues may be brutal and kill your most beloved courtiers and kids. I don't know how it turned out so easy for you, maybe because it was easy mode, but i dont remember if that was influenced as well.

- i don't recall how research worked in CK1, but i doubt your statement.

- about the crashes, check if you got the correct last patch (watch out for the date), but the ledger caused problems sometimes. Again check if you got the last patch. Do you run it in Win7 ?

Sooooo, play the game as it happens, use some Mods and use the.....oh wait i have to check CK1 on my other comp.
There is something special about the "difficulty settings" in CK1, but currently i dont recall what it was....


edit after checking CK1 on my old comp:
You need to play with aggressive level of coward or weakling otherwise the AI wrecks itself and it is actually much easier to play, at least if you survived the early slaughter.
About difficulty i don't remember, but usually played on normal.
Also recommended for mods.

On the matter of technology, several 5-tech levels in 2 to 3 years ? No Way ! The mtth is far too high. He might have had them before in the province.

After uploading the game i just thought about finishing my last campaign. Joy !
I'll probably copy the music into CK2, i miss it.

As mentioned above , use mods. Especially the most famous DVIP and TASS and especially to change some annoying sounds (like the catapult/besieging and the COA sound)i recommend the Sound/SFX mod.

 

[unmerged(599294)]

Thanks for answers! I'll try to reply to all of them in this post:
- I did not install any patches (in fact I did not know they exist) -- I've got whatever steam installed for me. It says CK: Deus Vult - 2.1 Beta in the top right corner of menu screen. Is there any other way to find version?
- OS = Windows 7, skipping a year and going to bridal/vassal registry (F6) is practically guaranteed way to crash
- I did not even know there is a difficulty lvl -- I simply started the game... checking it in options reveals these parameters: Difficulty = Normal, A.I. Agressiveness = Weakling
- here is my save if anyone wants to check: Domination save. Actually, conquering the world was not so hard after I figured out how to manage reputation properly. Hard part is to manage vassals while your armies fight in Africa, especially with active realm duress -- at one time I was getting vassal rebelling every week (trick is to squash rebellion asap using armies of neighboring vassals). It gets difficult as in 'time consuming' -- 165 hours of play and it is only year 1306 (though admittedly it is much easier now that stability is at +3).

To the points you make about the game, you seem to play a different game, for instance the immunity cases usually needed much more time to happen.

I was controlling entire world before plague, now it spread through Asia and making it's way towards Europe. Maybe asian provinces get it faster? I still have quite a few provinces that are sick, but list of immune ones keeps growing.

I doubt very much that you conquered the whole world, though maybe on a very easy setting. Try to play on "normal" at least without reloading.
A second game on normal withoput reloading and try the DVIP Mod or the one by Veldmarschalk. They add a lot to the vanilla game.

I play on normal, it seems.... Also, I'll start playing this game without reloading after:
- it stops crashing
- I stop getting -2 to stability in 90% of cases of one vassal (out of 650) rebelling -- c'mon it just does not make any sense. And it is not the problem of not being able to hold kingdom together -- I do... It just that it become too time-consuming and turns into a drag.

About mods -- nah, I am too lazy... If it was not installed with the game -- why should I manually add it? Also, I am tired of it -- I want to get to some logical end in this game and move on (e.g. to CK2).

Don't reload other then game concept misunderstandings or such

... or as I discovered -- if you are in the middle of a fight. Because game resets morale to 0%. :huh:

appearance of knight orders, mongols, papacy................event driven.

I understood that... Why it takes province from my vassal? Probably because there are no provinces not under players control. But maybe in this case it is better not to execute event at all?

The plagues may be brutal and kill your most beloved courtiers and kids. I don't know how it turned out so easy for you, maybe because it was easy mode, but i dont remember if that was influenced as well.

I am thinking about moving my capital to one of immune provinces in asia once plague reaches France (by granting main province to some vassal). I am pretty sure it will spare my court from plague.

i don't recall how research worked in CK1, but i doubt your statement.

I can't prove it with screenshot, but I swear it happened exactly how I said -- first son became PITA and I severed his allowance. He had ecclesiastic education, I believe, so he found a solace in research (church building, praying protocols, etc -- see my save game, you'll see). He kept pestering me about restoring his rights and I was refusing. He produced few high-lvl techs before eventually giving up and leaving for another court. Oh wait -- maybe he was unlucky with wife? ;-)

about the crashes, check if you got the correct last patch (watch out for the date)

How?

On the matter of technology, several 5-tech levels in 2 to 3 years ? No Way ! The mtth is far too high. He might have had them before in the province.

Nope, I got large window explaining me that my bastard son invented smth... You can't miss it -- it stops time, I believe.

As mentioned above , use mods. Especially the most famous DVIP and TASS and especially to change some annoying sounds (like the catapult/besieging and the COA sound)i recommend the Sound/SFX mod.

Thanks! Might do... But as I said before -- I already spent too much in this game and would like to move on to CK2 or smth... Just need to reach some point of "logical end". Should probably try to boot all vassals from their land

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

Thanks for answers! I'll try to reply to all of them in this post:
- I did not install any patches (in fact I did not know they exist) -- I've got whatever steam installed for me. It says CK: Deus Vult - 2.1 Beta in the top right corner of menu screen. Is there any other way to find version?
- OS = Windows 7, skipping a year and going to bridal/vassal registry (F6) is practically guaranteed way to crash

Hmm, for Win7 it's recommended to not install the game in the program files folder, but i doubt that has anything to do with the ledger. I know i had some crashes, but very rarely.
Sometimes it just needs time when you look in the bridefinder and doesnt crash altogether.

- I stop getting -2 to stability in 90% of cases of one vassal (out of 650) rebelling -- c'mon it just does not make any sense. And it is not the problem of not being able to hold kingdom together -- I do... It just that it become too time-consuming and turns into a drag.

The realm duress and stability losses are connected to traits, prestige, piety and the number of duke vassals you have. Its stressful but more fun with it. You wouldnt have conquered the world easily without reloading at this point.

About mods -- nah, I am too lazy... If it was not installed with the game -- why should I manually add it? Also, I am tired of it -- I want to get to some logical end in this game and move on (e.g. to CK2).

Understandable, but the Mods were great fun, also nice new events. But yeah, move on to CK2 then.

... or as I discovered -- if you are in the middle of a fight. Because game resets morale to 0%. :huh:

Thats a bug after loading a save with a battle going on.

I am thinking about moving my capital to one of immune provinces in asia once plague reaches France (by granting main province to some vassal). I am pretty sure it will spare my court from plague.

If i remember correctly there is a distance modifier in the vanilla version as well, means you better have a centralised location.


I can't prove it with screenshot, but I swear it happened exactly how I said -- first son became PITA and I severed his allowance. He had ecclesiastic education, I believe, so he found a solace in research (church building, praying protocols, etc -- see my save game, you'll see). He kept pestering me about restoring his rights and I was refusing. He produced few high-lvl techs before eventually giving up and leaving for another court. Oh wait -- maybe he was unlucky with wife? ;-)

How?

The crusaderkings.exe file should have a date accordingly.

Nope, I got large window explaining me that my bastard son invented smth... You can't miss it -- it stops time, I believe.

I don't remember such event. Whatever....

Thanks! Might do... But as I said before -- I already spent too much in this game and would like to move on to CK2 or smth... Just need to reach some point of "logical end". Should probably try to boot all vassals from their land

I guess i can see you soon over there in the CK2 forum then. Enjoy.
Was a pretty good idea to play CK1 first to get a hang on the basic concepts of it.

Bytheway: Did you experience any other bugs or crashbugs ? If so the patch from steam might be the wrong version, but i doubt my own doubts.

 

[unmerged(599294)]

Hmm, for Win7 it's recommended to not install the game in the program files folder, but i doubt that has anything to do with the ledger.

It is installed in steam folder that itself is located on another drive -- no problems with win7 UAC mechanism.

- I stop getting -2 to stability in 90% of cases of one vassal (out of 650) rebelling -- c'mon it just does not make any sense. And it is not the problem of not being able to hold kingdom together -- I do... It just that it become too time-consuming and turns into a drag.

The realm duress and stability losses are connected to traits, prestige, piety and the number of duke vassals you have. Its stressful but more fun with it. You wouldn't have conquered the world easily without reloading at this point.

I beg to differ -- actually during my world conquest I was reloading only due to crashes. It was quite trivial once I got title of king -- you wait for opportunity, claim title (rebellious vassals produce loads of prestige if you do not force them to drop claims against your titles, they are also cheap way to improve reputation), organize blitzkrieg (that is attack all target king's provinces at same moment) and he gives up everything including his vassals, sometimes you do not even need to control all his provinces. Biggest problem was Byzantine emperor -- that sob had 23 provinces. Of course you end up with a lot of unrest -- just keep squishing them pronto, it is just micromanagement. I started reloading when I realized that rebellions are not going to stop until stability reaches positive numbers and that bug with 50% of extra -1 of stability (which was more like 95%) was really getting in a way. Besides that -- just sit tight, dole out money whenever vassal loyalty goes below 15% (immediately before he has time to rebel) and wait for events that improve stability -- with stability +3 all rebels turn into lazy flies -- they rebel (drop 50% loyalty) once per ~6 month (or smth like that?), as opposed to every week or two on -3 with duress.
Of course it is better not to let you reputation to go below -3 (-0.8 for taking someone else's title, even from enemy Muslim, +0.4 on recognition of someone else's claim, +0.2 on granting title, -0.2 (-0.4?) for forging a claim) because it affects loyalty of all vassals you have.

Also, I repeat -- it just does not make sense for entire kingdom to go into duress mode just because one vassal rebelled. It makes sense when your kingdom has three vassals, not when it is 600. It is like having your Master of Orion fleet wiped by a peasant in an air bubble armed with a pitchfork -- possible if developers make him invulnerable, but does not make any sense.

Thats a bug after loading a save with a battle going on.

Somehow I doubt it is a bug ;-). If it was -- they definitely did not hurry to fix it...

If i remember correctly there is a distance modifier in the vanilla version as well, means you better have a centralised location.

Nothing prevents me from granting all western provinces to my heir (this 'll move my capital to immune east) and after ruler dies, heir (if he did not die of plague) will inherit eastern provinces back along with totally healthy court . And afair in this case capital will not move (just in case if plague is still active in the West).

The crusaderkings.exe file should have a date accordingly.

All dates in every tab of that file's properties point to Sept 17 2012 (date when I installed the game from steam).

Bytheway: Did you experience any other bugs or crashbugs ? If so the patch from steam might be the wrong version, but i doubt my own doubts.

Things I remember:
- some events (like death of a ruler) could generate huge unrest -- (accidentally) hovering mouse over flag that show tooltip with a (very large) list of unhappy vassals will freeze game (tada!)
- sometimes some elements of interface (or events) can't refresh/happen until you save/load -- such as assignment of papal controller
- if someone gets kicked out of a court and have nowhere to go -- they live in limbo and their 'shield sign' is filled with pink color
- sometimes loading freezes (if you have a large empire) and generally is very slow (especially now in year 1306)
- vassal/bride register crashes or does not reflect actual situation (I've seen married brides in there or dead ppl -- as if someone updates it with few days delay... it is probably a root cause for crashes)
- extra -1 in 'realm stability' event claims to have 50% probability -- it is not (more like 95%)
- same for events that could make children stressed -- it is not 30%, more like 70%
- it is impossible to select shield on one Greenland province (even if there is no crusade)
- clicks in bridal/etc registries travel 'through' current window into underlying ones -- just annoying bit, esp when you want to sort data by some column
- bug with pope/knight orders -- presumably I am not supposed to be able to vassalize them, but I can (by attacking them twice in a row)
- found a file in CK1 directory (exceptions.log) -- it contains quite a few lines like this:

######## EXCEPTION: 0xC0000005 at address: 0x00511545: ACCESS VIOLATION  read attempt to address 0x6E6F800D 
11/08/12 23:23:15


######## EXCEPTION: 0xC0000005 at address: 0x00408A91: ACCESS VIOLATION  read attempt to address 0x00000000 
StackWalk not initialized.
######## EXCEPTION: 0xC0000005 at address: 0x00408A91: ACCESS VIOLATION  read attempt to address 0x00000000 
StackWalk not initialized.
######## EXCEPTION: 0xC0000096 at address: 0x04D41BF4: PRIV INSTRUCTION 
11/09/12 20:20:42

- I am pretty sure game sometimes mixes floating point numbers (like 0.4) with whole numbers (40%) that describe same thing -- like probability of event or loyalty. It might explain aforementioned weird probability behavior
- minor note -- prestige (tool to grab a claim to king's title) is too easy to get in this game. One of my rulers (who handled most of expansion and vassals unrest) had it in range of 3-4 millions. I am glad it is not inherited -- which means forge claims while old fart is still alive ;-)

Btw, funny fact -- in my game papal state has only one province... in Jerusalem . I kicked pope out of Rome to cure his rebellious trait, so he popped up there...

 

[unmerged(599294)]

Just to lighten the picture a bit -- here is a case that made me appreciate this game quite a lot. There was an independent province in Poland area that refused anyone's attempts to vassalize it. I kind of expected it to be swept aside on the way of my armies as I was moving East and uniting divided barbarians under my banners.

Turned out that that guy had a general (prodigy + brilliant strategist) with ungodly stats (like 27 martial). Having only 6k army he managed to resist my 20-30k armies, significantly delaying my campaign in that direction). I guess he was kind of folk hero over there... like Braveheart. I simply assassinated him at significant cost to me (had 3 or 4 failures) and his army was defeated few days later. I killed Braveheart... All heroes are doomed to fall when they become obstruction on path of someone powerful.

This game made me think about what actually happened then and what happens now in this world. That every political system we support for reasons of everyone's well-being has a price -- empowering certain individuals that wage war on each other for more power. There are many curious parallels between feudal and modern times. In both cases there is someone with power and means of passing it down the line. Now it is money and property, then it was titles. In both cases power exists only because everyone supports current system to avoid changes that might destroy what little they have... I wonder how dramatically society will change if you fix it with, for example, Star-Trek style replicators and unlimited energy. :-|

As a side note I also got curious and read about Roman empire -- turns out it replaced republic (that existed for ~500 years) and survived well beyond fall of Rome -- for ~1500 years! And you can't really say it got destroyed -- it kind of weaved itself into all these counties and dukedoms in form of customs and laws, and even though it itself became corrupt and inefficent (and finally fell to turks), still -- even in this condition it existed for damn long time! Makes you feel that our modern world is very, very young -- we barely remember what happened 30 years ago. And our problems (like yearly salaries, vacations, etc) become very miniscule.

All this reading showed me that in history every(or most?) republic-style government systems were following the same route:
- become corrupt and inefficient (every initiative gets blocked)
- start listening to lower classes and appease their minute whims (for short-term gains like winning political office, etc)
- crumble and get replaced by lean and young empire
- get old, become corrupt and inefficient (throne is taken by a moron, no one is capable to pushing any good initiative)
- ignore lower classes -> they stop working
- crumble and get torn apart by external enemies (barbarians) and internal conflicts
- leave traces in form of monuments and laws passed onto newly formed bunch of small dukedoms


In fact same thing happens to companies/corporations, I've seen it with my own eyes -- looks like universal rule of nature?
Btw, US is a 200-years old republic... Makes you wonder, right?

Sorry for off-topic. CK is a great game. Opens a whole new perspective for you...

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

Warning ! Awefull/awful lot of smilies following below.

As i see you're a gamer who does sink into the mechanics, is a history buff and connects this to modern day politics.
WERRY GOOOOOD !

Welcome to Paradox, but beware that forum bunch still has many different opinions on everything, likes to discuss strongly, though usually the tone here is quite civilised, especially compared to other forums.

On CK1, what can i say, you more or less understood all the flaws of the game. ...and you'll enjoy CK2 i guess, though if you abuse all gamey things the game is pretty easy as well. While still entertaining.
Oh and Iceland (its Iceland, not Greenland), yeah. If i remember correctly you need to zoom the map to its lowest level and only then could you actually see the land and by clicking the province get to the shield.
Some flaws were kinda funny.

On history and politics, yup history repeats itself with a few different aspects and flavours. Yayam, history with flavour. Still, there is evolution. Look at the small things. You know, like the american and french revolution.
Btw, there is an Off-topic and a History forum for stuff like this. If you like to have a look and join the mad crowd.

CK2 has been released in february and we'll probably still get patches and DLC another year (hopefully, maybe even longer) and the game is kinda still in development (to make it even better).
So see you over there.



PS: I hope for a Star-Trek scenario as well, ..the good parts though only.
PS: From the bugs you got , it doesnt seem to patched incorrectly, while some things you mentioned made me scratch my head. I never had married or dead women in the ledger iirc. So what.

 

[unmerged(599294)]

Yeah... I had a beer that night -- turned me into philosopher

Oh and Iceland (its Iceland, not Greenland), yeah. If i remember correctly you need to zoom the map to its lowest level and only then could you actually see the land and by clicking the province get to the shield.

Yep, Iceland... And no -- still can't get reach shield. Ended up vassalizing guy indirectly.

Btw, there is an Off-topic and a History forum for stuff like this. If you like to have a look and join the mad crowd.

Ta, will have a look.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

One last reminder, there are lots of mods for CK2, a lot more than for CK1. If you want to get an overview, check the mod forum and look into the stickied "Master Mod list". It's always up to date with patch compatibility.

 

[Nosferatu]

What!? I succefully fiinished the game (I WON!) and the was no movie or something like it in the end. Is it OK? Just the text that you was a good king and bla bla... I played this campaign for several monthes.

P.S. funny thing thought, I started as a king of France and ended as a great king of Aragon.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Yes, that ok. There is no movie or something like that.