You can't get there from here

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In the many games of EU I've played, there has been one constant...
none of the nations turn reformed. It finally dawned on me while I was at work, you can't change from catholic to reformed, you have to be protestant first. Since the countries don't have protestant provincees they have no reason to change their religion to it so they can't get to the proper religion of reformed. They then buy missionaries and convert their provinces back to catholic.

My solution to this is a big one, keep all of catholic europe catholic and change the provinces through events. Now this might seem to some people to present the problem of what about when one country takes over another country before it gets the event to change the religion of the provinces? Then it stays catholic. Why does it stay catholic, because the people in the province didn't one day say "Hey fellow peasant let's be protestant now, it'll be fun!" The government said "Hey peasants be protestant now 'cause I'm the prince and I said so, now get back to work!" So if the government wasn't there to change the people then they wouldn't have changed. While not true for all this scenario is true for most.

The following is an example

event = {
id = 80000
random = no
country = MLO
name = "The Question of Religion"
desc = "Around the year 1515, dissidants of the catholic church began spreading their new dogma called Protestantism. Francesco II Maria the duchess of Milan had the oppurtunity to get out from under the heel of the Pope."
style = 2
date = { year = 1515 }
offset = 150
action_a ={ #Stay Catholic#
name = "The Pope is the head of the church"
command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 50 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 80002 }
}
action_b ={ #Go Protestant#
name = "The Pope is corrupt, I shall lead the church!"
command = { type = religion which = protestant }
command = { type = provincereligion which = 389 value = protestant }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 80001 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 80003 }
}
}
event = {
id = 80001
random = no
country = MLO
name = "The Question of Religion"
desc = "The priest John Calvin offered a new approach to Protestantism in the 1540's. This gave the Milano City Council the chance to get out from under the heel of the Pope. "
style = 2
date = { year = 1540 }
offset = 150
action_a ={ #Stay Catholic#
name = "The Pope is the Head of the church"
command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 50 }
}
action_b ={ #Go Reformed#
name = "THe Pope is corrupt, the people can worship how they wish"
command = { type = religion which = reformed }
command = { type = provincereligion which = 389 value = reformed }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 80003 }
}
}
event = {
id = 80002
random = no
country = MLO
name = "THe Question of Religion"
desc = "In 1515 the duchess Francesco II Maria converted MIlano to Protestantism. In the 1540' a priest named John Calvin began preaching a new form of Protestantism which gave the City Council the oppurtunity to further personal religious freedom."
style = 2
date = { year = 1540 }
offset = 150
action_a ={ #Stay Protestant#
name = "The Council is the head of the church"
command = { }
}
action_b ={ #Go Reformed#
name = "The people can worship how they wish"
command = { type = religion which = reformed }
command = { type = provincereligion which = 389 value = reformed }
}
}
event = {
id = 80003
random = no
country = MLO
name = "The Question of Religion"
desc = "In the 1570's the Papacy reorganized the Catholic church to battle the spread of Lutheranism. This presented the Milano City Council the oppurtunity to make a more stable government and strengthen the army. "
style = 2
date = { year = 1570 }
offset = 150
action_a ={ #Stay Catholic#
name = "The Pope is the head of the church"
command = { }
}
action_b ={ #Go Counter-Reformed#
name = "The Pope is the head of the church, let us battle the Lutherans."
command = { type = religion which = counterreform }
command = { type = provincereligion which = 389 value = counterreform }
command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 50 }
}
}
This way history will likely go the right way but there is the chance that someone influnces the ruler of Milan, and he descides to try Protestantism. This of course would have to be repeated for every country in catholic europe though I feel it would make game play better.

And so I put forth a challenge to the estemmed historians of this board, find out the info on one nation, did it go from catholic to reformed or did it try protestantism first? And descriptive text would be good too, did anybody try to get the king to change the nations religion? Then put them in the flavor text. Your help will I feel make for a better game.

 

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When EUII refers to "Protestant", it typically means Lutheran (exception; "Protestant" provinces in England are Anglican). The sequence in German states was typically to shift from Catholic to Lutheran to "Calvinist" (also called Reform or, in Great Britian, Presbyterian).

That was not the experience elsewhere in Europe. Scotland went directly to Reformed, thanks to the preaching of John Knox. The "Reformed Church" movement in the Low Countries and in Huguenot France was also unrelated to the existance of Lutheranism, except in that the wide spread of Lutheranism overthrew the instinctive loyalty of Latin Europe to the Pope, opening up opportunities for multiple Latin Christian faiths.

Also, the spread of the "Reformed Church" movement was different in character than the spread of Lutheranism. Lutheranism (and Anglicanism) was typically imposed from the top down. Martin Luther made it a point to work with the German princes, and used his teachings to reinforce the authority of the state. This was seen most visibly in Scandinavia, where the emergance of the Lutheran Church strongly boosted the authority of the Danish and Swedish monarchs.

Calvinism ("Reform") did not, typically, come from the top down. It was subversive in nature. It developed at the grass-roots level, and gained strength by the actions of itinerant preachers and published works, rather than through state support. In France and the Low Countries the secular authority was staunchly Catholic, and the "Reform" movement was forced to grow in spite of rather than in hand with secular authority. Eventually, the Calvinists were able to sieze the machinery of state in Scotland and the Dutch Republic, but it was by coup in Scotland and long years of warfare in the Netherlands before this victory was achieved.

 

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Would you say then that if a country goes Protestant there should be a random event that the people might go farther and become reformed?
To use my example if Milan changes to Protestant there is a random where the province changes to reformed. Then there would be an event for whether the government should stay protestant, force the people back to protestant at much cost and instability, or go reformed.