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Air Changes | Developer Corner

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Hey Everyone! I am back this week to talk to you a bit about some changes we are making to air management and combat. The first thing I want to get out of the way is that this is not a “Man the Guns” style rework of combat and management systems. Our focus on air changes have mostly revolved around quality of life and balance changes to existing systems, while largely maintaining the structures people are familiar with (with a couple of exceptions). So, let's get into it!

Starting off with a QoL change I am very happy about: Simplified Wing Deployment. Anyone who has experience with managing air wings probably has some complaints about how deploying wings works. The live system requires three clicks in the best case (four if you include choosing a base) to deploy a single wing into an empty airbase. In the worst case this requires more clicks and doing some math for creating a large wing that can later be divided evenly. Now, we are adding quick deploy buttons to the air base UI to allow deployment of a wing in a single click. We are also keeping the old deployment menu for more advanced deployment options. Also, in this menu, we have simplified the flow for deploying single and multiple wings at once.

WIP UI design of simplified wing deployment tools. Note the art style here is not indicative of a change in art direction for our UI. In the first image we see the setup that can be done to select fast deploy options from any air base.
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In the second Image we see the newer version of quick deploy within the advanced deployment menu. You now have a set of filters to only show planes of a specific type, and you can now set the reinforce preference on all of the wings you are about to deploy, or individual ones.



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One of the most visible changes to air management, and hopefully a big quality of life improvement for most people, is the addition of Air Groups. The first thing I want to say is this is not Army Groups or Fleets. For now, and the foreseeable future, we are not adding Air Marshals or any sort of mechanical impact to using Air Groups. Air Groups are an organizational structure and nothing more. What it will do is enable the grouping and selection of multiple air wings across multiple locations bases for easier management. These groups will be displayed when in the air map mode so that you do not have to hunt down your wings on the map when you want to interact with them.

A very much WIP view of our current air groups
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Of the changes we are making, one of the most notable is moving to standardized/fixed wing sizes. This change comes with a loss of flexibility in some situations and makes managing smaller numbers of airplanes a bit more complicated. However, I think that real air combat in HoI4 is measured in thousands of airplanes and not dozens. We are currently looking at 100 sized wings for most aircraft, with size 10 wings for a few specific equipment types(scout plans, CV planes, ect). This allows us to streamline wing deployment and some other management stuff such as not having AI take up weird percentages of air bases. It also makes balance easier and fixes a few exploit cases. This may take some getting used to but I feel it improves the overall experience of managing large numbers of aircraft.

The final change I want to discuss today is an addition to the combat system. We are adding a new mechanic for intercepting planes in regions enroute to their target. In most cases, engaging planes in their target region will still be most effective. But in others, such as when range is a factor, the region being crossed has a bunch of engagement and spotting bonuses, and in a few other cases leaning into combat in an intermediary region can be a good idea.

Beyond these more concrete changes we are doing a balance pass on existing air combat mechanics. A lot of this is still too WIP to discuss, but I would like to highlight one of our objectives which is decoupling agility and speed with more impact given to speed in later air superiority fighter designs, but more on that at a later date.

As always, I wish you all the best and don't hesitate to tell us how these changes make you feel.

Until next time o7
 
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Any reworks for aces? Maybe an air wing could have up to 5 aces (all movable between air wings of the same plane type). There were 2,500 German aces and 1,200 US aces throughout the war. Plan amounts in the game are much lower than in reality so maybe aces can be scaled down as well to match it (hence up to 5 per wing of 100).

Fixed wing size == more wings == more aces overall.

Could you take a look at the range circles for aircraft, for example in the western US say Nevada, aircraft are able to to fly much farther in one direction than another. I would think the airport would be in the middle of the range circle, but for some airports that is not the case.

This is something we considered, but the technical cost to do so significantly outstripped the value. It is worth mentioning here that we have split up some of the larger strategic regions into smaller ones in order to lessen the impact of this effect.

I certainly hope the wing size settings are moddable, preferably by archetype. Sizes of 10 just doesnt work to represent historical carriers in detail, would have to use sizes of 2 or something.

Also, any hopes we could get ranges that take map projection into account, instead of being the same regardless of latitude?

Wing sizes will be moddable.

I am very happy to see the dev team listening to the playerbase feedback and trying to solve one of the undoubtedly most important issues with the game currently.

With this opportunity im curious if other improvements to how air works will be made, and have compiled below a short list of ideas & questions:

1. Will it still be possible to have non-fixed airwing sizes for mods? hopefully you will find a way to make the system work with minimum airwing size of 1 to allow the extra flexibility for the playerbase that wants it.

This is not currently planned, but the fixed wing size will be moddable.

2. With some changes to AI mentioned, will it also be possible to add AI strategies regarding air in the future?

We are adding several.

3. Is expanding the set of aircraft attributes being considered? Possible addition of stats like altitude/rate of climb for example.

More on this soon.

4. Are there any plans to change the way plane ranges are calculated from the center of the state instead of airbase location?

As above; no.

6. Also regarding range, earth is a globe and hoi4 map is not, which is fine in some cases but breaks down at very long ranges or high latitudes. Having the ranges be corrected by latitude would be possible and a welcome change, at the very least to more modern mods for hoi4 in the world of missiles and long range bombers

We get this question in several areas of interest. While I understand the desire (imperator projection best projection), it is not an economical tech decision at this point.

9. Will there be a info screen for each air theatre (much like the army one) with losses and kills, bombing damage etc... ? it would provide a very good overview of said stats instead of clicking on each air region and adding up all the stats.

No, but more on this soon.

Does this mean that if I have 100% control over all possible routes to target I can leave the target region itself uncovered?

Not necessarily. Interception is not a hard blocker, it will disrupt and cause casualties to planes passing through a region. At some point it may become too costly to continue flying through any given region, but this rightly exaggerates the need to fight over intermediary locations as well as the destination point.
 
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I agree with the concerns that the idea of "thousands of aircraft" is not realistic. I like being able to just have a 30-40 plane air force and doing my best with it as far as the system allows. The 100 plane per air group was a meta that developed and I do not want that to be codified. If you are touching the air war - and by Thor you should - you should also do it right, esp as this will be a change that heavily favours larger nations and disadvantages smaller ones where building even one or two production lines of aircraft can be expensive and fielding thousands of aircraft just to stay competative just feels wrong.

If you are going to center around a specific number, I feel that centering around the 12 plane squadron is a much better thing to do and balance it from there.

Also, Swedish Aircraft Tech Tree is still a mess.
 
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sounds nice! very nice that you are going through the wishes of the players and orientate on them. but i got to make another proposal:

i hope as well that you are planing to get rid of the air area system as it is to an system like it was in hoi3, where you have given airwings orders on the size of a province / states or more provinces / states as once. such a system would fit nicley to the approach of airgroups and reduce micromanagement a lot if the airwing follows an army / armygroup :-D
 
1) The max size of wings to 100 is very good to prevent CAS/Bombers deathstack which exploits engagement mechanics. but, how will it work for Carriers ? Imagine a 40 deckspace carrier with +10% deck space bonus, it would make the design have 44 slots. If only increments of 10s, how will it work ?
carrier deck space modifiers will become additive, so a +1 deck space modifier will add 1 wing(10 deck space) in capacity. You can still overcrowd your carriers as before as well.
 
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Will pilots be mortal this time? or do you still lose only equipment? (i.e. planes)
 
while i like this, an obviously massive improvement is needed here. no air marshalls is already slightly disappointing, and i hope that altitude-related effects will be better represented (early planes had just simply bad high-altitude performance...if they could even reach them, but they could put up a fight on a low-level dogfight) not to mention that the really bad nonsensical air tech tree gets some love (hopefully with a designer..)

however the most important stuff is that by far the most important job of airforces not represented in hoi4 is attacking enemy planes on the ground, literally trying to destroy them. literally every theatre of the war has seen an incredible number of attacks like these, sometimes entire air operations focusing on this. some of the larger raids shifted the air wars in theatres in a single day. and we don t have this in hoi4 at all. sure, strategic bombing the airfields is op and underrated, but still, the air war is really-really missing the destruction of other airforces on the ground menu
 
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Wouldn't the wing size not better fit for a game rule? Unless the way combat works change drastically, I don't see the point of fixed size wing.
 
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I kinda wish they would rework the ridiculousy large air zones in the US, South America and Africa. And especially the inability to control where a airport will be build
 
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Dear Dev's, will you add moddability of plane / airwing roles?
For example to differentiate between short-distance and long-distance/sea air recon?
 
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We get this question in several areas of interest. While I understand the desire (imperator projection best projection), it is not an economical tech decision at this point.

Regarding the ranges and latitude, while I appreciate that doing a 'proper' fix which would result in non-circular ranges might be difficult, would a simpler approach that just increases the range on a circular manner based on latitude be more viable? While it would still lead to distortion, it would be far better than the current situation where planes loose 20-30% of map range vs listed range in Europe.
 
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Overall I quite like the changes, especially the air groups.
I am sceptical of the fixed wing sizes though.
While it might make sense for the major powers, it might be problematic for carriers, and for minor powers.
 
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Sounds Excellent

Will the AI still overstack airfields if there are wings that are not fully filled out due to losses? or do they take into account the full size of the wind and not the current size? If they will still overstack is it possible to add a toggle to discourage/block use of an airfield by other nations (similar to the discourage/block on hubs and ports for supply)?
 
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Damn I really appreciate this much needed love. Air warfare in the current state is only somewhat fun in low numbers and with high numbers it just became a chore to deal with...
 
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The addition of the mechanic of being able to intercept planes in airzones on the way to their destination is one of the single most desired and greatest changes to the air system, especially for my community. Great job guys.

The biggest feedback I have is this: In the dev diary, you showed the addition of air groups as an organizational structure but said "For now, and the foreseeable future, we are not adding Air Marshals or any sort of mechanical impact to using Air Groups." I would say that this is a heavily desired feature and, as always, if the devs don't want it added into vanilla, maybe give us modders an option to add/use a mechanic like that.
 
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I'd like to ask, with this rework of Air warfare, will there be a focus/decision for allied nations to deploy volunteer airwings from occupied countries? e.g. Polish and Czechoslovak Airwings in France and later on in Britain which served during blitz on Britain.
This already exists if you have La Résistance. It's called Exile Air Wings. But I don't blame you for not knowing that, as the wiki doesn't seem to have any information at all about Governments in Exile!
Wouldn't the wing size not better fit for a game rule? Unless the way combat works change drastically, I don't see the point of fixed size wing.
Fixed sizes will mean a smaller number of possibilities which increases the chance of the AI being programmed correctly to handle the aircraft better. Removing an entire layer of complexity makes it easier for the AI coders to keep track of what is going on and the possible effects of any changes that they might make.

Both computers and the coders *could* handle the maths required for variable maximum wing sizes, but the difficulty is trying to do that at the same as keeping track of mission efficiency, actual wing size, aircraft type, ace effects, airbase capacity, radar coverage, weather, and probably another half dozen things I've forgotten.

Fixed sizes might also open up the possiblity of using certain algorithms (such as Last In First Out?) which are known to be optimal with units of equal weight, but are not certain to be optimal with units of variable size. But I don't know for sure whether that's the case here.
 
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- Currently, you can create the air wings everywhere, planes are just teleported. A simple change would be to allow creation only in cores.
- Another unrealistic feature is that you can easily and very fast redeploy air wings and shuffle around 1000s of planes all over the world. Simple change would be to increase time, but much more realistic would be to be forced to use strategic redeployment.
 
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Everything’s fine, but we need new focus trees & add hybrid ideas system
  • Italy,​
  • Belgium,Luxemburg (maybe some ideas copied from netherlands focus tree or creat hybrid ideas (eg. All of Benelux countries will gets the same 10 ideas???)​
  • Scandinavia (Denmark, Norway, Sweden and little Finland) (too add hybrid ideas)​
  • Austria,​
  • Switzerland,​
  • South America,​
REMAKE:
- New interesting for Czechoslovakia and Romania (They are worthy of it (historical ideas)),

pfff.. I'm waiting for new Full DLC
 
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The main balancing concern I have is with AA. Support AA (even at '36 tech stuff) is way too effective at shredding CAS to the point where it becomes almost nonviable. Fighting Germany becomes a slog since they love spamming support AA, and the supply rework has nerfed tanks very hard.

Another small change that would be nice is to not have the game spam events every time I get an ace.

Of the changes we are making, one of the most notable is moving to standardized/fixed wing sizes.

RIP the days of the devs claiming that, no really, wing size shouldn't matter when it comes to air combat, that 10 wings of 100 planes should behave the same as 1 wing of 1000... even as players proved time and again that it did matter in lots of janky ways. Like how you could spam aces if you made tiny 1 plane wings, or that you could vastly exceed combat width of CAS bombings with larger wings.

Probably for the best honestly.
 
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