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CK2 Dev Diary #102 - About that one dead religion...


Greetings.

Well, then... Holy Fury will make Hellenism playable.

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Now, now, let us be clear: there are not going to be any significant changes in the game’s history. Holy Fury will simply offer a couple of ways for a ruler to revive the religion when meeting some strict requirements.
This is no easy choice to make, of course, as doing so will likely make your character reviled by both vassals and neighbors alike and cause your realm to fall into a crippling civil war, but then again, if the cause is just...

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The first opportunity to restore Hellenism will come immediately after restoring the Roman Empire as a Greek or Italian ruler. Your character will receive an event shortly after becoming Emperor where he ponders about reintroducing the old state religion.
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Naturally, if you decide to do so, your Abrahamic vassals will assume that you have gone insane (which, I suppose, may very well be the case...) and likely band together in a large revolt to depose you. Be aware that defeat during this civil war could easily result in a game over: if your heir is also a pagan like you, the leader of the rebellious vassals will take over the entire Empire for himself and away from your heathen dynasty.
On the other hand, if you are successful, you will be able to remain in power and some of your less reluctant vassals might decide that embracing Hellenism is not such a ludicrous proposition after all.

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While not entirely connected to the Hellenic Restoration, I would also like to talk about a few other additions that have been slipped in the old Roman Empire revival event chain.
First of all, remember how the silly Pope tends to fill Rome with Church holdings, making the city not exactly palatable as a feudal capital? Well, worry no more! For now, after restoring the Empire (and provided that Rome has two or more temple holdings), your ruler will be given the chance to emulate Nero and clean up the place a bit. It might seriously hurt Catholic Moral Authority and the local peasants might get really upset about it, but, at the end of the day, aren’t those empty slots worth it?

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A second new little feature you might enjoy is the Roman Renaissance decision, which will become available after ruling the restored Empire for a few years, provided that you have moved the capital to Rome, belong to either Greek or Italian culture and are either Christian or Hellenic. This decision will allow your ruler to reintroduce Roman culture to the Empire. On a practical level, this will allow your realm to become more homogenous, as provinces and rulers belonging to any Latin culture will be very susceptible to switch to the new one and, if you are Hellenic, they will also have a chance to switch both culturally and religiously when embracing the new renaissance. On a roleplaying level, your characters will get swanky new togas to dress in.

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Now, let us go back to Hellenism proper. As I was saying before, there is a second way for a ruler to restore the dead religion, if conquering all of western Europe is too much of a hassle for you.
If you are a Christian, of either Greek or Italian culture, your capital is located in Southern Europe, you completely control one of the Hellenic Holy Sites (Thessalonika, Athens, Rome, Alexandria or Abydos), and you are interested in scholarly matters, or are insane, you will have access to a new decision: Delve into Classics.
If taken, this decision will allow a character to go through a short event chain during which you might become enamored enough with Hellenic mythology to decide to secretly convert to it and start your own Society of Hellenes. Whatever you wish to do after that in order to spread the religion will be up to you.

This is it for what concerns the means to resurrect Hellenism, but what about the religion itself?
You will be pleased to know that it is no longer an empty husk and has now actual flavor and mechanics to it.

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First of all, the religion is no longer pre-reformed: it can make use of the new Pagan Reformation feature just like any other form of paganism (and, as a small aside, you might be happy to know that reforming it as a Greek character will give all the gods their Greek names).
As for how the religion starts, Hellenism is now strictly monogamous (no concubinage), and does not have access to Pagan Subjugation. On the other hand, all Roman and Byzantine events previously restricted to Christians are now also available to Hellenic rulers (chariot races, Imperial Reconquests, etc.). Additionally, Hellenism starts having by default the effects of the Haruspicy and Astrology Doctrines, as well as having access to a new unique mechanic: temple dedication.

As a Hellenic ruler, you will be able to dedicate any temple holding within your realm to one of the twelve main deities of your pantheon. Doing so will give your ruler a temporary boost as well as activate a special building granting a permanent bonus to the holding’s province. These dedicated shrines are permanent, merely becoming inactive when under a ruler of a different religion. The kind of boost that they grant is naturally tied to the god they are being dedicated to.

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Finally, Hellenism has been given access to a few societies, though most of them, like the religion, will need to be recreated by a powerful ruler before becoming active.
Aside from having immediate access to Hermetics, Hellenics can now form the Stoics (a Monastic Order), the Bacchants (a Satanist society), and the Olympian Champions (a Warrior Lodge). Aside from their outlook, the Stoics and Bacchants work exactly as their Christian counterparts, with the one exception being that the Rank 4 County Conversion power of the Stoics will convert a province culturally rather than religiously.

Well then, this should cover most of it.


Note: As we are aware that the inclusion of the Hellenic religion might break immersion for some of our players, we have included a Game Rule to go with it. If the rule is turned off, it will disable the Delve into Classics decision and the Hellenic Revival event chain following the Roman Empire’s restoration, removing any chance of the religion reappearing in a regular game (though note that the religion might still spawn in Random World, depending on what settings you use when generating its history).
 

Because people have been asking about it for years, and the way it is implemented is similar to what the historical figure Gemistus Pletho tried to do, with much of the same reasoning given in the event texts we see in the screenshots as he had when proposing these ideas to the Byzantine court.
 
This is spectacular - thank you, devs*. I know I was critical of some of the excessive pressure for this feature, but I actually really like how it's been done. I have some questions:

1) Which map view is the first screenshot?

2) Does the decision to destroy the churches destroy the Papacy title, or does it just deprive the Pope of his holdings in Rome? And does it kill (and make potential martyrs of) the Pope and any cardinals who are present in Rome?

3) Does Hellenism get a holy order?

4) Seconding the earlier question: does a hierocratic reformed Hellenism get a College of Pontiffs?

Thanks,

nd

*DEVS IN ADIVTORIVM, &c.
2.) Almost certainly not - the Papacy is supposed to always exist and many events depend on it always existing to have someone to fire for.

4.) Been answered, and no.
 
Well then..

Paradox is really developing ck2 into a fantasy game. So sad.

Reinstalling hellenism in the middle ages is simply ridiculous.

The idea was dead right after the death of Julian the apostate.

Playing hellenism is something for the upcoming Imperator game..
 
Well then..

Paradox is really developing ck2 into a fantasy game. So sad.

Reinstalling hellenism in the middle ages is simply ridiculous.

The idea was dead right after the death of Julian the apostate.

Playing hellenism is something for the upcoming Imperator game..

Literally Gemistus Pletho, I'm gonna keep bringing this dude up because his entire rationale is almost exactly what these events are saying.
 

The Ancient Olympic games were banned by Emperor Theodosius, since he decreed that all pagan cults and practices be eliminated.
Then is it possible to resume it, after Hellenism is revived?
 
This is just great. I am freaked about Holy Fury.
Not historical correct? Yep, but hey, from whichever date we start, this game is about creating plausible alternative history. And I find this plausible. Unlikely, yes, as a rare event, but if it happens - freaking fantastic.
 
The Ancient Olympic games were banned by Emperor Theodosius, since he decreed that all pagan cults and practices be eliminated.
Then is it possible to resume it, after Hellenism is revived?
I'd personally tie that to the Roman Renaissance event chain rather than the specifically Hellenic ones.

nd
 
A couple of things:

1) Will Romans get access to Byzantine events like chariot races and all that too, or will you still have to be Greek for that? Could it be possible for non-Greek vassals of Byzantium to get these events?

2) So can I just ask, on an abstract level, what the Roman Renaissance actually represents? Is it like Eu4, where (at least the community seems to suggest) you just rebrand your current culture and start using fancy names, or is it, on a deeper level, trying to restore Roman culture through things like reintroducing chariot races to Italians etc. and essentially Byzantifying the West. I can actually imagine a revival in Latin being within the scope of realism, since for half of the game's timeframe everyone spoke dialects of Latin instead of individual Romance languages anyway. Latin as a lingua franca could hold the same weight that Arabic did in displacing languages, and with greater probability since it's actually ancestral with massive general similarity and/or literally just the standardized register of the language they're speaking anyway. After all, with a proper empire, the language can be standardized

1) Most of the events you are talking about used to be tied to owning one of the Roman Empires and being Christian (only a few were locked by culture), they have now been updated to work for Hellenics as well.

2) I suppose it could be roleplayed in different ways, depending on what culture the reformer belongs to before making the switch, but, I would say in general that yes, it is an attempt at restoring the old customs. It could be intended a bit as a show of power: the Empire has been restored and is flourishing again, therefore we can afford the sort of lifestyle that our ancestors had.

Can you tell us what kind of culture-specific troops the Roman culture will get?
They get a pikemen/heavy infantry mix to try and represent the Legion.
Their cultural building is the Camp of Mars, also giving Pikemen.
This is spectacular - thank you, devs*. I know I was critical of some of the excessive pressure for this feature, but I actually really like how it's been done. I have some questions:

1) Which map view is the first screenshot?

2) Does the decision to destroy the churches destroy the Papacy title, or does it just deprive the Pope of his holdings in Rome? And does it kill (and make potential martyrs of) the Pope and any cardinals who are present in Rome?

3) Does Hellenism get a holy order?

4) Seconding the earlier question: does a hierocratic reformed Hellenism get a College of Pontiffs?

Thanks,

nd

*DEVS IN ADIVTORIVM, &c.

1) Religious map, reformed with Autocephalous leadership.

2) Unfortunately not. I thought about the idea of transforming the Papal title into the Pontifex Maximus if you Reform while owning Rome (since they are basically the same thing), but the potential for other stuff breaking was too high for the potential value.

3) Yes.

4) As said above, no.
 
This was so uncalled for and it is amazing what the current CK2 dev team can accomplish compared to the old ones. I want you to release another DLC after Holy Fury just to see what other amazing things you can accomplish on the side of the DLC.
 
First things first, thanks for updating Hellenism to be a proper playable religion. Now, there's something I wish to ask. Is it possible to start out as a custom character with the Hellenic religion?
 
2.) Almost certainly not - the Papacy is supposed to always exist and many events depend on it always existing to have someone to fire for.

4.) Been answered, and no.

The first map view seems to be just what happens when you go into religion tab, like when you go into it as Orthodox and see the patriarchates
 
This is just great. I am freaked about Holy Fury.
Not historical correct? Yep, but hey, from whichever date we start, this game is about creating plausible alternative history. And I find this plausible. Unlikely, yes, as a rare event, but if it happens - freaking fantastic.

Unlikely? Heh. Two days after Holy Fury's release, someone will have already installed a Hellenic horse as the pope.

Though I'll admit, it's less likely for the AI to do something like that.
 
Also, will the Hellenic Societies will have special clothes for them ?For Stoics and Olympian Champions mainly, as the Bacchus followers would use the typical Satanist Hoods I suppose.
All three societies get special clothes.
 
I really appreciate using the term "Galileans" here, an instant +1 star for the DLC.