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CK2 Dev Diary #105 - Clergy Interactions Revamp

Hello, everyone.

Today we will be talking of a nice quality of life update to the interface, AI behavior and some new additional flavor regarding the Papacy (as well as any similar religious head that has access to these interactions, such as a Reformed Pagan High Priest with Hierocratic Leadership).

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The patch coming with Holy Fury will place all Papal Actions in a more easily accessible list of icons, right under the portrait of your religious head in the Religion screen.

Furthermore, the behavior for all these actions has been un-hardcoded and fully scripted, so the Pope is now much more sensible when deciding who he wants to Excommunicate, and less restrictive when considering the possibility of granting an Invasion casus belli to an ambitious ruler. More importantly, players are now able to see exactly why their religious head is denying them a request.

The AI logic itself has been considerably expanded and tailored to the various actions.

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Having a vassal Pope no longer ensures that all your demands will be automatically accepted, and having an independent Pope will not make it near-impossible to get a favor from him. The Pope will take into consideration Opinion, Piety, traits, the specific circumstances (such as divorcing an infertile wife), and the amount of controlled Cardinal seats when deciding whether to accept a ruler’s request or not. Piety costs for these interactions have also been rebalanced and tied to the ruler’s tier, making them more accessible to low ranking rulers and costlier to Kings and Emperors.

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The Request Claim interaction has been given a special new interface as well to make it more intuitive and accessible to players. Rather than having to search directly for the title that you wish to gain a claim on, you can use the new button in the religious view to get a list of potential Catholic rulers owning titles for which the Pope is willing to grant you a claim on. By clicking on any of them, you will be shown a second window showing the list of all titles owned by the target ruler and from there you can select the one that you are interested in.

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Finally, if you are Excommunicated, the Issue Declaration of Repentance decision has been revamped so that it is no longer simply a cash payment.

Much like when requesting a coronation, the Pope will now pick one out of several possible demands for the player to fulfill in exchange for the lifting of his excommunication. Requests can range from a show of contrition causing Prestige loss, to changing your realm laws, to give one of your sons to the Church.


Also, bonus Cardinal clothes, pre and post 1245:

Cardinals preview.jpg
 
Baltic = First Vaidila
Shouldn't the Romuva religious leader be called the Krivis ? A vaidila is the word for a priest, but the Krivis was the high priest. I think the Baltic pagans had a caste system sort of like the Hindus.

There is no article on it in English in Wikipedia, but the German article notes that when the Teutonic chronicler Peter von Dusburg wrote his report on Remowe in 1326, the Kriwe »sei von den Prussen wie ein Papst verehrt worden« — literally "honoured by the Prussians like the pope". The Dominican friar Simon Grunau wrote that if the Krivis became ill, he would be burned alive and the vaidila (Waideler) would select a new one to replace him. Grunau chronicled the names of 48 Kriwes between about AD 500 and 1265.

The Teutonic Order didn't just march in and slaughter people. They sent scribes and missionaries to the Old Prussians for centuries, learned about their culture and tried to minister to them peacefully. The pagans murdered the missionaries (Bruno of Querfurt was killed along with 18 others). Apparently the missionaries didn't so much respect their sacred groves and idols. Weighing political pressures, the temptations of secular power, and a desire to conquer the Baltic lands before the Russian Orthodox rulers could, eventually the Catholics invaded. Deus vult omnes homines salvos fieri


 
I assume pope will always grant divorces to sibling-sibling or parent-child unions, if for some reason character that had divine marriage converted to Catholicism?
Being married to a sibling will make it very easy to request a Divorce from the Pope, but it's not a necessarily a certainty. If you have a very bad ruler or the Pope really hates you, you might still stack up enough negative modifiers to not get the divorce.

"You've made your bed now . . . err, you know the rest."
 
So the Pope is going to be "more sensible" about whom to excommunicate? Great new. I'm sick of seeing harmless mooks get hit with this while Known Murderers and Adulterers get off free...

I'll be keeping an eye out for this...
 
>Chernoban
"The Late Proto-Slavic word *banъ is not of native Slavic lexical stock and is generally considered to be a borrowing from a Turkic language."
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ban_(title)

Either way "Black Ruler" doesn't exactly sound like a very honorable title for the highest priest. I have to agree with @DmUa as Vozhd would be a more appropriate title unless of course Paradox would care to explain their reasoning behind this name and maybe shed some light on why they chose it.
 
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Instead of setting a fixed date to introduce the galero, wouldn't it be better to have a global event "ecumenical council" which triggers under certain conditions and then unlocks the galero alongside other things?

Inserting them in 1245 seems arbitrary and insensitive to the circumstances of a particular campaign.
 
Will 'Request Crusade' be one of these interactions? For a long while it's been treated a little bit differently from other such things (the button doesn't show up at all, not even grayed out, if it isn't available) and it's been frustrating. Lumping it in under one suitable mechanic seems like a good idea.
 
i think i've seen this posted a few times, but i don't particularly understand what it means.

@redtide's explanation is pretty much perfect, but I figure the context behind the phrase might also help.

It comes from the Macedon invasion of Greece. It's said that when Alexander the Great's father, Philip II, was preparing to invade Sparta, he sent them a message which said "If I win this war, you will be slaves forever" (Or something similar to that effect - it varies by account).

The Spartans sent back the only the single word "If." as their reply.
 
好希望道教也可以改革啊,或者新增汉传佛教,把它和印度佛教区别开来,同时我反对把苯教的宗教领袖称为达赖喇叭

He means: I'd like Taoist to be also reformable, or adding a new "Chinese Buddhist" to distinguish it from Indian Buddhist.

What's more, he is against calling the head of Bönist Dalai Lama.
 
From what I can tell, the official title of the Bön Religious Head might be "Menri Trizin"?

They don't have a massive online presence, but I've found a couple of articles relating to the death last year of Bön's religious head, and subsequent enthronement of his successor. Both times, they're referred to as the "Menri Trizin" - Possibly "Kyabje/Gyalwa Menri Trizin".
I'd post links but I'm fairly new here and don't know the rules vis-à-vis external links.

A big problem with Bön seems to be that it's so heavily syncretized with Tibetan Buddhism. Even "Lopön", which seems the most applicable title for everyday Bön religious leaders, is a Tibetan Buddhist loanword and as much as I'd love the Dalai Lama to be in-game, shoehorning the title onto the head of a different religion, albeit an oftentimes hard to distinguish one, seems like a bad way to do it.

Edit: Links!

Article on the previous religious head, 33rd Menri Trizin (Hasn't been updated with his passing yet)

Eulogy of above

Enthronement of his successor, the 34th Menri Trizin
 
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Calling the Bön religious head the Dalai Lama doesn't make much sense. Not only is the Dalai Lama a Buddhist spiritual leader whose authority is over a single school of Buddhism... but his title of "Dalai" Lama was bestowed on him by the Mongols... in the 16th century.
 
I'd post links but I'm fairly new here and don't know the rules vis-à-vis external links.
You can post any link to something other than a forum, I think.
 
I might be mistaken, but doesn't dalai lama just mean something like "great master" in tibetan? If so, I don't see the problem with bön faithfuls using the title considering that they'd most likely do so before the time the first dalai lama historically appeared.
 
Seems that many players started to find errors in your religion leader name.

Not "name" but "names".
At least "Chernoban" of Slavic and "Dalai Lama" of Bön are under debation in this thread, and I am not sure about those of other reformed pagans.
 
- chernowho? :confused: Cherno - black. Ban - ruler in south slavic dialects. I dully expected it to be Vozh - a leader or chief in ancient slavic as an analogue to norse Fylkir.
Yeah, chernoban sounds more like a titke for head of Slavic satanist equivalent.