CK2 Dev Diary# 23: More rules, less lunatics

[pieGEEK]

@Darkrenown

Will these be added as menu items? I like the ones you already have a lot. Probably one of best quality of life measures you did.

Matrilineal Marriage: Lowborn Only
De Jure Shift: Kingdom/Empire Only

Thanks.

 

[Lord Cuddlesworth]

Not only that, it’s also possible that Immortal characters may find they are not the only people to have found Eternal life, and that their brethren are not the most welcoming types:
View attachment 206010

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!

 

[Jorlem]

We have also continued to add more Content, including:

The various Defensive Pagan faiths now allow you to pick a Patron Deity granting a bonus to certain stats, and allowing access to certain new events:

Passing along a question for a friend, any chance more content will be added for the minor Christian branches?

 

[Silversweeeper]

Yeah, because a religion being confined to a single start is totally unZUNprecedented, right?

I have nothing against more pagan faiths in the game, no matter how many starts they show up in (as a matter of fact, I have split Norse/Germanic in my own pesonal mod, have added Celtic pagans, and might include the Hellenics in the future), but compared to the Zunists, who got some rather unique stuff, I would imagine that a Saxon/Germanic faith would end up portrayed as basically a landlocked version of the Norse, possibly with Tribal Invasions instead of prepared invasions. It would certainly be possible to make them more interesting/unique, but I suspect that they might not end up that way due to the fact that their faith should be reasonably similar to the Norse faith (but with anything that is too Vikingy removed) and that a new faith (that isn't as different as the Zunists) getting more attention/uniqueness than the defenive pagans wouldn't be received well by a lot of people.

 

[Narvait]

I love everything about this update... and life.. and CK2..

p.s. But here I would prefer (the apparently original version?) Romuva's Own ower Baltic Defender. Or about anything over Baltic Defender, we already have Baltic Warriors
...Grove Defender, Hound of Dievas (Dieva Suns, that is more Latvian than Baltic I guess), Oak Man (old Baltic saying 'vīrs kā ozols'/'vyras kaip ažuolas', oak is Pērkons' tree, Perkunas etymology is derived from oak),

romuvas_own;Baltic Defender;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
romuvas_own_desc;This character has fought to defend the Holy Forrest.;;;;;;;;;;;;;x

something like:
romuvas_own;Hound of Dievas;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
romuvas_own_desc;This character has turned into wolf hunting Dievas enemies.;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
romuvas_own;Oak Man;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
romuvas_own_desc;This character has received the strength of oak for protecting the Holy Forrest.;;;;;;;;;;;;;x

 

[TheDungen]

I have nothing against more pagan faiths in the game, no matter how many starts they show up in (as a matter of fact, I have split Norse/Germanic in my own pesonal mod, have added Celtic pagans, and might include the Hellenics in the future), but compared to the Zunists, who got some rather unique stuff, I would imagine that a Saxon/Germanic faith would end up portrayed as basically a landlocked version of the Norse, possibly with Tribal Invasions instead of prepared invasions. It would certainly be possible to make them more interesting/unique, but I suspect that they might not end up that way due to the fact that their faith should be reasonably similar to the Norse faith (but with anything that is too Vikingy removed) and that a new faith (that isn't as different as the Zunists) getting more attention/uniqueness than the defenive pagans wouldn't be received well by a lot of people.

Landlocked? I must have imagined their migration to the british isles 200 years prior to the start of the game. There's no need to remove anythign viking becuase there was no such divide back then, when Widukind realized he was beaten he tried to flee to the land of the danes to drum up more support from his brethren in faith there. Germanic IS norse. It just didn't survive long enough for saxony to be a viking kingdom but in an alternative timeline when it does there is no reason it should be any different. Neither should heathen frisians.
Especially since the Saxons pioneered the things the Vikings ended up doing like raiding and invading/settling England.

 

[Silversweeeper]

Landlocked? I must have imagined their migration to the british isles 200 years prior to the start of the game. There's no need to remove anythign viking becuase there was no such divide back then, when Widukind realized he was beaten he tried to flee to the land of the danes to drum up more support from his brethren in faith there. Germanic IS norse. It just didn't survive long enough for saxony to be a viking kingdom but in an alternative timeline when it does there is no reason it should be any different. Neither should heathen frisians.
Especially since the Saxons pioneered the things the Vikings ended up doing like raiding and invading/settling England.

I am well aware that the Saxons went to Britain and that the faiths for all intents and purposes are the same. However, I assume that if the faiths were split the Norse would come away with the "raid and go overseas" part (due to that being traditionally associated with the Vikings) and the Germanic/Saxon faith would therefore end up more landlocked than the Norse faith (potentially for no better reason than to make them somewhat different), which likely would mean entirely landlocked.

 

[Urzhail64]

Hello all, it’s time for a CK2 DD once again. Now before I get into the meat of this one, I want to let you know that DDs between DLCs are going to be shorter than the big feature-explainers I could write during Reaper’s, so don’t be surprised if some are brief.

Moving on, work on 2.6.2 continues well, and I’ll post the patch notes when it’s closer to being done, but some fixes that may interest people include:

• AI Characters are much less likely to take Experimental treatments for minor illnesses, which means you should see less maimed or insane character about in the world.
• Patricians can now properly Go into Seclusion and Search for Court Physicians.
• Characters under 16 no longer get gout.

We have added more Game Rules:

• Supernatural events can be set to Unrestricted, allowing the AI to have fun with them too.
• Both Mongol and Aztec invasions can be set to “Delayed Random” where they will show up at random but not before the year 1000 and not before the game has been played for 50 years.
• Turkic Conquerors can be set to Historical/Random/Off.
• Way of Life users can set Dueling to Normal/Restricted/Unrestricted.
• Both Vassal and Demesne limits can be set to Normal/Unlimited/50%/25%
• Grant Independence can be set to Normal/Unrestricted.
• Assassinate plots in MP can be set to Normal/No Players/No Players + Heirs/No Player Dynasty.

We have also continued to add more Content, including:

The various Defensive Pagan faiths now allow you to pick a Patron Deity granting a bonus to certain stats, and allowing access to certain new events:
View attachment 206012
View attachment 206011

Plus, all Pagan religion now have their own Valhalla-bound equivalent:
View attachment 206013

Characters in Seclusion may find they have an uninvited guest:
View attachment 206014

Immortal characters are now a lot more likely to wake up from Incapacitating head wounds, and there is no longer an age limit on said event for Immortals.
Even non-depressed Immortals who find that life Eternal isn’t all that great may now attempt to end their life.
Not only that, it’s also possible that Immortal characters may find they are not the only people to have found Eternal life, and that their brethren are not the most welcoming types:
View attachment 206010
say one thing for Rurik Rurikid, say he's lucky

And that's it for now, see you next week!

There can only be One ! /brandishes sword

Aw, Phoenix beat me to it. /cry

 

[Mike Louis]

• Both Vassal and Demesne limits can be set to Normal/Unlimited/50%/25%

I can finally hold excess duchies in order to grant them to my ruler's younger children without having to worry about demesne limit.

 

[NewbieOne]

I would suggest adding a version of 'Way of Life users can set Dueling to Normal/Restricted/Unrestricted' for Seduction, and something in between normal and unrestricted demesne limit, particularly increasing the importance of Stewardship to make it more meaningful.

A good restriction for Seduction would be quantitative (scalable numbers), not qualitative (scripted exceptions), i.e. longer MTTHs and lower success rates, rather than hard-exempting certain targets.

There needs to be a better alternative to disabling WoL or using third-party mods to disable Seduction only or waiting for the fix that's never going to come. In keeping with other decisions restoring player freedom, I believe it's time to let go of making a point of showing who's boss to those players who don't think the joke is funny.

 

[Duuk]

• Both Mongol and Aztec invasions can be set to “Delayed Random” where they will show up at random but not before the year 1000 and not before the game has been played for 50 years.

Can we please please please get a "full random" option where there is a reasonable chance of them not firing at all, so we never know which direction/s we have to defend?

Will it be Aztecs? Will it be Mongols? Both? Neither?

 

[NewbieOne]

Apologies for double-posting, but I can't edit my post. It either gives me an error saying it's been permanently moved — to the forum index page no less.

No, it's 50/25% smaller. Any increase would disable Achievements anyway, so you might as well go unlimited and police yourself if desired.

The problem is if you police yourself you're going to get disadvantaged compared to unrestricted AI. Seeing AI go full-on Korea mode will have a negative effect on your experience/immersion too. On the other hand, if you always leave AI at restricted, then the human player is going to be privileged.

Something between normal and no limit for both human players and AI would level the field. Like I noted above, increasing (e.g. doubling) the effect of Stewardship bonus could be a reasonable way.

 

[Jorlem]

I would suggest adding a version of 'Way of Life users can set Dueling to Normal/Restricted/Unrestricted' for Seduction, and something in between normal and unrestricted demesne limit, particularly increasing the importance of Stewardship to make it more meaningful.

Expanding the current seduction rules from On/Off to have those options as well would be nice.

 

[Orinsul]

Could there be more options for revolts and adventurers?
rather than just less?
like how there are more options for diseases

 

[Axe99]

Cheers for the DD Darkrenown . Lots of nice touches there (although a complete fail at writing a brief DD Not complaining though ). Still haven't quite managed to get off the HoI train, but I'm looking forward to (a very refined) CK2 when I do .

 

[Helios Panoptes]

And I was just about to start up a Zunist game. Better put that off until I can praise properly.

Does Zunist also do the patron deities?

No it should not they are the same religion. The whole reformation mechanic makes no sense as it is anyway, a smaller faith should be easier to reform than a large one.

It is a little silly that to reform you have to consistently win against the Abrahams and maybe even take territory from them so you can realize you can't beat them and need to reform.

 

[animatrix37]

The various Defensive Pagan faiths now allow you to pick a Patron Deity granting a bonus to certain stats, and allowing access to certain new events:

Wait, so no patron deities for the Norse and the Aztecs?

 

[Hector of Troy]

Really glad vassal/demesne limit rules can be altered now. Can anyone tell me if it will also affect the AI?

Even if it only affects the player, it's still great to know I can finally reduce my personal vassal/demesne limit to 50% or 25%.

 

[Jorlem]

It is a little silly that to reform you have to consistently win against the Abrahams and maybe even take territory from them so you can realize you can't beat them and need to reform.

I think the idea was that you'd stay unreformed for the bonuses as long as possible, then when the missionaries start hitting the point where people of your faith start listening to them, you'd strike back by retaking those holy sites, showing that your gods are stronger, then reform the faith so that it is harder for the missionaries to succeed.

Unfortunately, the bonuses didn't prove to be enough of an incentive to stay unreformed versus the benefits of reforming or converting (and giving up unique mechanics like raiding), so rushing to reform is the standard strategy.

As I see it, a big part of the issue stems from how the unreformed/tribal mechanics were set up to encourage eventual reformation/feudalization. Specifically, it is how the game makes the former bad, so you want to escape, instead of making the latter good, so you are attracted to playing as them.

All the "sticks" are blatant, in your face things that you interact with or are reminded of often, like being locked to elective gavelkind, the massive short reign penalty, the alert for losing prestige while at peace for offensive pagans, and the awful troop types. Meanwhile, most of the "carrots" to stay unreformed/unfeudalized for longer are passive effects that are just there without you doing anything, like the tribal "empty holding slot bonuses" mechanic, the troop modifiers that are factored in from the start, and the defensive homeland attrition (you can't see any indication of it as a pagan, and I'm pretty sure the AI is set to not attack places where it is until it has the tech level to negate it).

From the other side, it seems as if all the notable benefits that come from reforming and feudalizing are basically just enabling the mechanics that everyone else already has, and were disabled for unreformed pagans.

 

[Damarrocarion]

Wait, so no patron deities for the Norse and the Aztecs?

Norse do get plenty of other stuff. Patron deities is nice method to give flavor to various pagans so at least they appear bit different.

And that is very well with me. Only thing I might add is Reincarnation for WAR. Romuva could get relation bonus for Twin trait (along with prestige/piety gain event for parent) or ability to put laws up for "horse vote" with piety cost.

We of course need tribal building changes too but that is not strictly for pagans.