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CK2 Dev Diary #33: Let's Talk About Sects

Hi everyone!

It’s time to spill the beans on some actual content in the upcoming expansion Monks and Mystics, which we announced last Friday at our Fan Gathering (I hope all the good folks who showed up had a fun time - I sure did!)

The genesis for this expansion came about a long time ago, when I started thinking about secret societies and conspiracies and wrote it down as one of several outlines for a couple of “mini-expansions”. Now, for various reasons we never went ahead with that expansion model and most of the ideas have, by now, been used in bigger expansions. However, the concept of fraternities stuck and the time is now auspicious!

The core feature of Monks and Mystics is something we simply call “Societies”. Societies are groups of like-minded characters who are working together for personal and mutual profit. Some Societies are perfectly legit (that’s the “Monks” part in Monks and Mystics); others are perhaps viewed with some suspicion (e.g. Alchemists) but are hardly criminal. Finally, there is the subversive kind, of which the Demon Worshippers are certainly the worst. (Such shadowy and outright evil cults can be actively combated through a new job that can be given to the Court Chaplain.)

The basic loop goes like this; you put out word that you’d like to join a specific Society. After a while (immediately, for open Societies), you will be approached and offered membership as a novice. At this lowest rank, you usually don’t get many new abilities (but if the Society is secret you can now at least see the leader and the other members.) Now and then, you will be given missions that will further the goals of the Society. If you complete them, it will give you more power within the Society, which should eventually allow you to “level up” in Rank. The new Rank will give you access to at least one new special ability. Using these abilities (they are basically just a special type of Decision) can also increase your power within the Society, and so it goes, all the way up to being the leader of the whole Society.

benedictine_mission.png


Of course, members of the same Society tend to like each other, and will sometimes (depending on the nature of the Society) even be obedient towards members of higher rank; or at least not hostile. This creates a whole new way of discouraging factions and pave the way for loyal vassals (or even a loyal Pope!)

That’s all for now. In a later dev diary I will go through the actual Societies and talk about their particular powers and abilities...

Be sure to check out the funny teaser trailer for Monks and Mystics, and remember the Livestreams later today, where Emil and Steven’s quest for the best German cookie continues, followed by the Norman adventures of Chris, David and yours truly!

devil_power.png
 
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Bad for some, good for some.
At least you'll be able to disable what you dislike.
It still means they spend their time writing more events I will never see, despite the fact that 4/5 event chains are already ruled out by the supernatural rule.
 
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so, are we going to have a "Create the Elixir of Life" ambition leading to a chain of events (gaining high learning if 'supernatural' is off or immortality as the ultimate prize in case it's turned on?)
Well... If they're going that route, I'm hoping that there'll be non-lethal alchemical accidents.

"I tried to create the Elixir of Life, but accidentally created Elixir of Gender-bend."

The existing immortality-chains are a bit too death-heavy.
 
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It still means they spend their time writing more events I will never see, despite the fact that 4/5 event chains are already ruled out by the supernatural rule.
They spend time writing them because there are people who like them. They can't surely change everything to match the wishes of a couple of people who complained so far.
Just enable the supernatural events, and ignore the really crazy ones. We already talked about this, there aren't that many crazy ones. And they are super-rare.
 
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Demon child was added in SoA, in 2013 - I challenge you to find any dev saying it's not actually fantasy. I'm not revising anything, you are just wrong and seem to want to gloss over it.

I have photographic memory, I am not wrong, but I haven't got the time to dig up a single quote in tens of thousands of pages of text for you. But iff just just use your eyes here on this page you'll see the request to be able to shut the more directly supernatural events of while leaving the ambiguous ones on time and time again, now you can either listen to your customers or not that's up to you.
Also do something about you attitude, you represent a company for crying out loud.

First off, no such thing as a "Photographic Memory", it's never been proven to exist and even if it does that doesn't mean it's perfect.

Second off, when the Demon child was introduced the ability to spontaneously recover from head wounds, blindness, maiming and castration was also included.

Also, irrc if you went on Pilgrimage to Rome you turned into a fire-wreathed monster in the centre of the Basilica, or something.

What the Devs used to say about most of the "supernatural" events was "well, you don't have to see them as supernatural". When pressed on the Demon child events though they'd admit that some of the events were, yeah, magic. This caused a fair bit of consternation for some time as it was the beginning of CKII moving from "historical simulation" to more "historical-themed".

I'm sorry The Dungeon, but if you believe the Devs have been set against fantasy until the new game rules were introduced you are miss-remembering, or you weren't present for the arguments three years ago.
 
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They spend time writing them because there are people who like them. They can't surely change everything to match the wishes of a couple of people who complained so far.
Just enable the supernatural events, and ignore the really crazy ones. We already talked about this, there aren't that many crazy ones. And they are super-rare.
I'm not assign that they change everything I just wish they'd play it a little closer to history and point out that there are almost more fantasy event chains than regular ones.


First off, no such thing as a "Photographic Memory", it's never been proven to exist and even if it does that doesn't mean it's perfect.

Second off, when the Demon child was introduced the ability to spontaneously recover from head wounds, blindness, maiming and castration was also included.

Also, irrc if you went on Pilgrimage to Rome you turned into a fire-wreathed monster in the centre of the Basilica, or something.

What the Devs used to say about most of the "supernatural" events was "well, you don't have to see them as supernatural". When pressed on the Demon child events though they'd admit that some of the events were, yeah, magic. This caused a fair bit of consternation for some time as it was the beginning of CKII moving from "historical simulation" to more "historical-themed".

I'm sorry The Dungeon, but if you believe the Devs have been set against fantasy until the new game rules were introduced you are miss-remembering, or you weren't present for the arguments three years ago.
Yeah I know I have eidetic memory. I use the term photographic because people have no idea what eidetic memory is. If my memory was actually photographic I'd be better at spelling. ;)
Yes I have heard that you can end up healing maimed when you get the devil child event but I have never seen that, as someone said above it is really rare.
Never heard about that one.

Yeah that's the quote I was looking for earlier.

Look I don't mind the fantasy or rather pop culture reference content, I just think that the pile of such events is getting pretty large while there aren't all that many interesting event that aren't that kind of stuff.
 
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Well, honestly, being a medieval ruler was actually pretty boring. It was either lots of paperwork, or lots of sitting in an uncomfortable chair handing out fines, humiliating punishments and very rarely having someone executed.

I agree that there are event chains they could add which are less anachronistic but equally you'd need a degree in medieval history to understand the impact of them, unless the game sat you down for a lecture at the start of the event chain.
 
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Bad for some, good for some.
At least you'll be able to disable what you dislike.

NOOO! It ruins my fun when I know someone, somewhere is playing the game in the wrong way! Totally immersion breaking, literally unplayable.
 
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Well, honestly, being a medieval ruler was actually pretty boring. It was either lots of paperwork, or lots of sitting in an uncomfortable chair handing out fines, humiliating punishments and very rarely having someone executed.

I agree that there are event chains they could add which are less anachronistic but equally you'd need a degree in medieval history to understand the impact of them, unless the game sat you down for a lecture at the start of the event chain.
That's not boring to me, sound a lot more fun that blobbing. Especially since we speed through the days of a medieval ruler at two days per second. And I doubt it was any less exciting than poltics today. There's loads of narratives you could push through if you allowed events to have a meaningful impact on gameplay. And no you don't need a degree in medieval history, learning by doing. Just make the choices somewhat intuitive.
Ck2 or rather ck3 should take one more step away from EU and one more towards narrative and roleplaying.
 
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There's loads of narratives you could push through if you allowed events to have a meaningful impact on gameplay.
You mean, make gameplay totally reactive?
 
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@Darkrenown could answer our good questions and debate nice ideas instead of fighting a troll.
 
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The expansion is looking good! It adds lots of possibilities, both for vanilla and mods.

Hopefully there will be nice special abilities for everyone even with Supernatural events turned off.

Satanists are very supernatural, no one else has much/any.
 
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You mean, make gameplay totally reactive?
Yes and no, I proposed a long long time ago a quest engine rather like the mission engine in Eu4, where a few missions are drawn randomly from a deck of available ones and depending on what has happened to your character, and the world before then the available ones and the likelihood of drawing them changes. Pretty much a procedurally generated narrative engine. But it would have to wait for CK3 because it would tax the game massively to add such a thing without getting it in with the basics.
But you'd be reacting to event that took place because of your (and other's) previous decisions. It's basically to breach the line in gameplay between events which are lmost totally reactive and main gameplay which is not reactive enough (whatever happens the mechanics pretty much stays the same).
Yeah it would kill the sandbox somewhat but it would give a much more alive gameplay. Especially if you made it easy for players to share storylines with each other, kind of like how you share species in spore (and with similiar measures in place to prevent abuse).

Satanists are very supernatural, no one else has much/any.
If you're gonna do it you perhaps should consider it for pagan cults (I mean cults of pagans amongst non pagans, not the cults available to pagan rulers) to, assuming of course that you have them (and people have supernatural events on of course), also are satanists always satanists are they say followers of ahriman for Zoroastrians, cult of Hel for norse pagans and stuff like that?
 
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The only thing I care about is if Secret Bears are going to get put into this.

Just to be clear; I don't want that blocked under the "supernatural" category. Secret bears are real. I know people think it's lizards, but... Well... I know the truth.
 
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It's too bad that this discussion got so petty. I am in agreement with TheDungen's main point about the supernatural events. The older ones (e.g. the one about the crack in the ground) could be explained as people finding fantastical explanations for mundane events that they don't understand, whereas (based on the limited information in this DD) it seems that they are moving in a direction of more clearly fantasy content, which I don't want in my game. And it's great that there's an option to turn it off, but I don't want to have to throw out the baby (the older, more ambiguous events) with the bathwater. That's why I was glad when it was announced that the immortality chain would not happen to AI characters, so that I could just ignore it when it happened to my character, while still keeping the old "supernatural" events on.

Having said all that, this is only the first DD since the expansion has been announced, and surely doesn't represent the whole scope of the DLC. I'm looking forward to the next few DDs to see what else it will have to offer.
 
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The only thing I care about is if Secret Bears are going to get put into this.

Just to be clear; I don't want that blocked under the "supernatural" category. Secret bears are real. I know people think it's lizards, but... Well... I know the truth.
What are you talking about? Secret bears are already in the game, they have been for ages.

edit: No wait ofcourse... no there are no secret bears in the game, any rumours of secret bears are totally unfounded. Now if someone tells you that there are secret bears you should inform us immediately, so we can make them disappear... I mean tell them that they are wrong.

I would love to see a more dynamic system than what we currently have. More opportunities for melting pots and evolutionary branching would be glorious!
While intresting it might also prove a very cumbersome system, it might be best left for ck3.
 
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Yes, it's indeed unfortunate that the discussion became so heated. Nevertheless, I agree with some of the sentiments. As I see it,
  • The game has events/features that are impossible to occur in reality.
  • The game has events/features that sound impossible but might have a rational explanation.
  • The game has events/features that are highly unlikely to have any historical basis.
  • It would be nice for the player to have better control over which of these three types of events/features than the rather blunt "Supernatural" option we currently have.
  • Even with more player control, you'll never please everyone because there will always be debate on how events/features are categorized.
 
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