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CK2 Dev Diary #33: Let's Talk About Sects

Hi everyone!

It’s time to spill the beans on some actual content in the upcoming expansion Monks and Mystics, which we announced last Friday at our Fan Gathering (I hope all the good folks who showed up had a fun time - I sure did!)

The genesis for this expansion came about a long time ago, when I started thinking about secret societies and conspiracies and wrote it down as one of several outlines for a couple of “mini-expansions”. Now, for various reasons we never went ahead with that expansion model and most of the ideas have, by now, been used in bigger expansions. However, the concept of fraternities stuck and the time is now auspicious!

The core feature of Monks and Mystics is something we simply call “Societies”. Societies are groups of like-minded characters who are working together for personal and mutual profit. Some Societies are perfectly legit (that’s the “Monks” part in Monks and Mystics); others are perhaps viewed with some suspicion (e.g. Alchemists) but are hardly criminal. Finally, there is the subversive kind, of which the Demon Worshippers are certainly the worst. (Such shadowy and outright evil cults can be actively combated through a new job that can be given to the Court Chaplain.)

The basic loop goes like this; you put out word that you’d like to join a specific Society. After a while (immediately, for open Societies), you will be approached and offered membership as a novice. At this lowest rank, you usually don’t get many new abilities (but if the Society is secret you can now at least see the leader and the other members.) Now and then, you will be given missions that will further the goals of the Society. If you complete them, it will give you more power within the Society, which should eventually allow you to “level up” in Rank. The new Rank will give you access to at least one new special ability. Using these abilities (they are basically just a special type of Decision) can also increase your power within the Society, and so it goes, all the way up to being the leader of the whole Society.

benedictine_mission.png


Of course, members of the same Society tend to like each other, and will sometimes (depending on the nature of the Society) even be obedient towards members of higher rank; or at least not hostile. This creates a whole new way of discouraging factions and pave the way for loyal vassals (or even a loyal Pope!)

That’s all for now. In a later dev diary I will go through the actual Societies and talk about their particular powers and abilities...

Be sure to check out the funny teaser trailer for Monks and Mystics, and remember the Livestreams later today, where Emil and Steven’s quest for the best German cookie continues, followed by the Norman adventures of Chris, David and yours truly!

devil_power.png
 
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This whole argument about supernatural events which are not supernatural but looks like supernatural is a bit cheesy.

Epilepsy could be seen in real life as a sign of posession. But in CK2 instead of seizures possessed could actually get military advice of Jesus with actual benefits and stuff.

I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to work like this in real life.

Yes, there is "soft" and more "heavy" fantasy content, but there is no "not-fantasy looking like fantasy" content.

Except if you think the epileptic leader you're following is getting military advice from Jesus, you're going to feel pretty good about your chances in battle, probably want to follow orders better, stick out bad combat situations a little longer, not to mention your cousins back home might decide it is a good time to go to war too.

My personal problem with the newer 'supernatural' events is that they don't seem to be written the same way as the old 'supernatural' events. They don't leave much mental wiggle room for the event to be a misinterpretation of reality. For example, when ole Charlie had a heart attack at age 34 after gaming with Death, he didn't wake up with pain in his arm and torso - Death just walked in and started the game. I had to supply the reality after the fact by remembering he had the "chest pains" symptom and looking at how he died ("clutching his chest").
 
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Hi everyone!

It’s time to spill the beans on some actual content in the upcoming expansion Monks and Mystics, which we announced last Friday at our Fan Gathering (I hope all the good folks who showed up had a fun time - I sure did!)

The genesis for this expansion came about a long time ago, when I started thinking about secret societies and conspiracies and wrote it down as one of several outlines for a couple of “mini-expansions”. Now, for various reasons we never went ahead with that expansion model and most of the ideas have, by now, been used in bigger expansions. However, the concept of fraternities stuck and the time is now auspicious!

The core feature of Monks and Mystics is something we simply call “Societies”. Societies are groups of like-minded characters who are working together for personal and mutual profit. Some Societies are perfectly legit (that’s the “Monks” part in Monks and Mystics); others are perhaps viewed with some suspicion (e.g. Alchemists) but are hardly criminal. Finally, there is the subversive kind, of which the Demon Worshippers are certainly the worst. (Such shadowy and outright evil cults can be actively combated through a new job that can be given to the Court Chaplain.)

The basic loop goes like this; you put out word that you’d like to join a specific Society. After a while (immediately, for open Societies), you will be approached and offered membership as a novice. At this lowest rank, you usually don’t get many new abilities (but if the Society is secret you can now at least see the leader and the other members.) Now and then, you will be given missions that will further the goals of the Society. If you complete them, it will give you more power within the Society, which should eventually allow you to “level up” in Rank. The new Rank will give you access to at least one new special ability. Using these abilities (they are basically just a special type of Decision) can also increase your power within the Society, and so it goes, all the way up to being the leader of the whole Society.

View attachment 222358

Of course, members of the same Society tend to like each other, and will sometimes (depending on the nature of the Society) even be obedient towards members of higher rank; or at least not hostile. This creates a whole new way of discouraging factions and pave the way for loyal vassals (or even a loyal Pope!)

That’s all for now. In a later dev diary I will go through the actual Societies and talk about their particular powers and abilities...

Be sure to check out the funny teaser trailer for Monks and Mystics, and remember the Livestreams later today, where Emil and Steven’s quest for the best German cookie continues, followed by the Norman adventures of Chris, David and yours truly!

View attachment 222359
Why are you using St. Peter's Cross as if it is a bad thing? It wasn't till the 20th century, mainly from popular media was it associated with anything lesser.
 
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So, you are telling me I will be able to not only become immortal, but now I get spells to?

Hot damn!

All I need is the ability to replace my portrait with a skeleton and I'm proper set!



(Ye gods I hope this expansion is reasonably current-save-compatible! I am slowly working my way around to pick up my half-finished Rome (to EUIV) game and I shall be miffed if I can't add me some Magics to that as well...!)
 
Why are you using St. Peter's Cross as if it is a bad thing? It wasn't till the 20th century, mainly from popular media was it associated with anything lesser.

Where do they make an association with a reverse cross and the occult?
 
Why are you using St. Peter's Cross as if it is a bad thing? It wasn't till the 20th century, mainly from popular media was it associated with anything lesser.

While I agree the cross is bit silly, does it really matter when satanism itself is anarchronistic? Medieval example of "satanists" are people like cathars who were smeared as such. Even demonic black magic (not originally intended for satanists) is more of a post 1453 thing as I understand it.

Where do they make an association with a reverse cross and the occult?

The second screenie in OP has reverse cross for religious icon.
 
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Hi everyone!

It’s time to spill the beans on some actual content in the upcoming expansion Monks and Mystics, which we announced last Friday at our Fan Gathering (I hope all the good folks who showed up had a fun time - I sure did!)

The genesis for this expansion came about a long time ago, when I started thinking about secret societies and conspiracies and wrote it down as one of several outlines for a couple of “mini-expansions”. Now, for various reasons we never went ahead with that expansion model and most of the ideas have, by now, been used in bigger expansions. However, the concept of fraternities stuck and the time is now auspicious!

The core feature of Monks and Mystics is something we simply call “Societies”. Societies are groups of like-minded characters who are working together for personal and mutual profit. Some Societies are perfectly legit (that’s the “Monks” part in Monks and Mystics); others are perhaps viewed with some suspicion (e.g. Alchemists) but are hardly criminal. Finally, there is the subversive kind, of which the Demon Worshippers are certainly the worst. (Such shadowy and outright evil cults can be actively combated through a new job that can be given to the Court Chaplain.)

The basic loop goes like this; you put out word that you’d like to join a specific Society. After a while (immediately, for open Societies), you will be approached and offered membership as a novice. At this lowest rank, you usually don’t get many new abilities (but if the Society is secret you can now at least see the leader and the other members.) Now and then, you will be given missions that will further the goals of the Society. If you complete them, it will give you more power within the Society, which should eventually allow you to “level up” in Rank. The new Rank will give you access to at least one new special ability. Using these abilities (they are basically just a special type of Decision) can also increase your power within the Society, and so it goes, all the way up to being the leader of the whole Society.

View attachment 222358

Of course, members of the same Society tend to like each other, and will sometimes (depending on the nature of the Society) even be obedient towards members of higher rank; or at least not hostile. This creates a whole new way of discouraging factions and pave the way for loyal vassals (or even a loyal Pope!)

That’s all for now. In a later dev diary I will go through the actual Societies and talk about their particular powers and abilities...

Be sure to check out the funny teaser trailer for Monks and Mystics, and remember the Livestreams later today, where Emil and Steven’s quest for the best German cookie continues, followed by the Norman adventures of Chris, David and yours truly!

View attachment 222359

Well, I said "If they're going to do this they need to lean into it".

Looks like you're leaning.

I saw one of the symbols showed in a previous dev diary was related to Hermeticism.

Does that mean I can get to do magic without worshipping Satan?

Specifically - I'd like to be able to try to regrow body parts my idiot doctor lops off - please?
 
This whole argument about supernatural events which are not supernatural but looks like supernatural is a bit cheesy.

Epilepsy could be seen in real life as a sign of posession. But in CK2 instead of seizures possessed could actually get military advice of Jesus with actual benefits and stuff.

I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to work like this in real life.

Yes, there is "soft" and more "heavy" fantasy content, but there is no "not-fantasy looking like fantasy" content.
Because people hearing voices is something totally unheard of in history *cough* jean d'arc *cough*.
Or are you suggesting that reality has supernatural content?
 
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That second screenshot showing a familiar is an irritating dive into fantasy (although not as bad as the Aztecs...but at least that was optional). Any chance we can turn off non-historical events like "Magic" or "Demon" related stuff and other non-historical events like becoming a werewolf. I realize the limitations of the system, but I would like to infuse a bit more realism into my game.
 
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While I agree the cross is bit silly, does it really matter when satanism itself is anarchronistic? Medieval example of "satanists" are people like cathars who were smeared as such. Even demonic black magic (not originally intended for satanists) is more of a post 1453 thing as I understand it.



The second screenie in OP has reverse cross for religious icon.

As far as I know there's no real evidence of Satan worship in the period - worship of Loki or other old God though?

Yeah, sure..
 
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That second screenshot showing a familiar is an irritating dive into fantasy (although not as bad as the Aztecs...but at least that was optional). Any chance we can turn off non-historical events like "Magic" or "Demon" related stuff and other non-historical events like becoming a werewolf. I realize the limitations of the system, but I would like to infuse a bit more realism into my game.

Yes, it is Supernatural: off.
 
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I wouldn't say Immortality is questionable, for example, or Satan regrowing your limbs. But if you're ok with killing Cthulhu or being the Antichrist and rationalizing it away as madness or superstition then surely you can apply the same to casting a spell? You're just nuts, perform a useless ritual, and then find a stray cat which makes you feel better about yourself rather than summoning a demonic familiar.
Successful immortality and limb regrowth would also be a good candidate to use a more granular determiner for supernatural events. The others seem like they're suitably questionable, to me.
You've never heard of the Demon child events?
I always assumed those were instances of mental health disorders being poorly handled by the caregivers.
 
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I know I'm in the minority but this is probably the least excited I've been for a DLC since ROI. Zero interest in the subject material.

Won't be a day-one purchase for me.

You're not alone in this.

I was hoping for a more religious and less fantastical DLC. Fleshing out the heresies more, giving more power and influence to the Pope and the Cardinals, maybe even a real parallel hierarchy for the Church.

The only feature I really like in this DLC is the arrival of the monastic orders. Given the importance of the monastic life in the time period of the game, this was long overdue.
 
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That second screenshot showing a familiar is an irritating dive into fantasy (although not as bad as the Aztecs...but at least that was optional). Any chance we can turn off non-historical events like "Magic" or "Demon" related stuff and other non-historical events like becoming a werewolf. I realize the limitations of the system, but I would like to infuse a bit more realism into my game.
Well if you want everything even remotely supernatural turned of then you can do that via the game rules. But it's an all or nothing deal, you also won't be meeting a man who might be Odin as such things.

You're not alone in this.

I was hoping for a more religious and less fantastical DLC. Fleshing out the heresies more, giving more power and influence to the Pope and the Cardinals, maybe even a real parallel hierarchy for the Church.

The only feature I really like in this DLC is the arrival of the monastic orders. Given the importance of the monastic life in the time period of the game, this was long overdue.
Yeah they seem to have gone in a very odd direction with this.
 
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Because people hearing voices is something totally unheard of in history *cough* jean d'arc *cough*.
Or are you suggesting that reality has supernatural content?

What epilepsy has to do with hearing voices? And what hearing voices has to do with being military genius (being slightly deranged inspirational figure is not the same thing as being military genius even in terms of game mechanic)?

If you can sugarcoat this event as realistic, I'm pretty sure your that power of imagination can work with dark magic in this DLC, as other posters suggested. Just a mumbo-jumbo rituals and a couple of totaly weird coincidences.
 
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Well if you want everything even remotely supernatural turned of then you can do that via the game rules. But it's an all or nothing deal, you also won't be meeting a man who might be Odin as such things.

I set my game to supernatural off, but somehow still ended up with my ruler becoming a werewolf and killing my advisors. I can understand an event focused on the rumor of werewolves, but something like an unrest hit or a small rebellion or the person getting a werewolf event simply being tagged as a lunatic or possessed seems more than enough. On a related note (not fantasy, but it certainly stretches the bounds of credulity), I have the head of a cadet dynasty turned cannibal who is happily eating his way through his immediate family, yet it has proven impossible to get any support behind a plot to knock him off. I can buy into a cannibal popping up now and then, but surely just about any liege would lock up a vassal who makes a habit of dining on everyone within reach.

I do look forward to monastic orders and other related additions. I hope somehow factions that developed like the split between Guelph and Ghibelline can be integrated as well.
 
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