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CK2 Dev Diary #51: The Roof of the World

Hi folks!

PDXCON 2017 is over and it was fantastic to meet so many of you! I got a lot of interesting suggestions and feedback on our games, including, of course, CK2. So, a special thank you goes out to those of you who were there!

Now then, let’s talk a bit about those ugly gray areas on the map; the wastelands. Aesthetically, I’ve never liked the gray color of wasteland provinces in the non-Terrain map modes, so I took some time to change it so that wasteland is now always shown as Terrain, regardless of map mode (we might add options for this in the settings. Let me know what you think!)

Northern Siberia and the Sahara deserve to be wasteland; it’s difficult to do anything more about that (we’ve already twisted and manipulated the map projection, etc.) However, the Himalayas and the vast Tibetan plateau are a different story… Though mountainous, the region contains many important population centers and religious sites and has a rich history of interaction with China, India and Central Asia. In essence, the only reason it’s a “wasteland” in CK2 is that we haven’t prioritized doing it justice.

tibet_full.png

Tibet, 1066. Note that any green Coat of Arms are placeholders.


I’ve never been happy with the way the eastern edge of the map feels like the edge of the world when, in fact, it should be a dynamic hub connecting at least four major civilizations (China, India, the Steppe Nomads and the Islamic world.) Well, the time to do something about that is now! In our working build, we have added the necessary provinces, new cultures (Bodpa, Tangut and Nepalese), new religions (Bön and Khurmazta), and title history for the entire region.

himalaya.png

The Himalayan mountains, 867.

The Bön religion is a pagan faith which functionally has many similarities with the Romuvan and Buddhist religions: It is very hard to convert, has access to Gavelkind, and unlike other pagan faiths it can not be reformed (though this might change in the future.) Instead, it starts off with the ability to designate heirs, just like Buddhists. It has also got a Patron Deity system like that of the Hindus and the “defensive” Pagans.

bon.png

Purang, one of the Bön religion's Holy Sites.


In addition, we are looking over the great Muslim conquerors (Sabuktigin, Seljuq and Timur) to make sure they usually rise, toning down the Indian Holy Orders and making them creatable (rather than existing from the start.) We also plan to add or expand on adventurers for more generic conquests into and out of the subcontinent especially.

There is more, but that would be revealing too much too soon. :) Stay tuned for the next dev diary!

EDIT: Todays livestreams are cancelled due to attrition from PDXCON.
 
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They could be place holders.
Definitely!

Where is this from?
Made it myself in photoshop from a screenshot i took in game.

Isn't that just a crappy photoshop edit? See the borders in ruler designer, with different CoA colors.
Yes! That's the point.

She superposed a picture of a Mongol character wearing the same garb as the Tibetan character in the higher left corner of the picture, showing that, for the time being at least, Tibetan characters will wear the same clothes as Mongols/Khitans and thus probably share the same face pack.
Exactly this. I tried to match the chin too which I'm 99% sure is just from the Mongolian/Khitan faces. I matched the neck and shirt for sure. Either way I'm just trying to show it's nothing new.
 
Exactly this. I tried to match the chin too which I'm 99% sure is just from the Mongolian/Khitan faces. I matched the neck and shirt for sure. Either way I'm just trying to show it's nothing new.

Hopefully it's just a placeholder until Crackd sends them the new facepack he made... maybe it'll default to Mongols if you don't have it?
 
Eh, since the game starts during the time of Tibetan Empire, IMO Wylie would be more accurate than any 20th century phonetic romanization





:p

No doubt that's true.

Coqen = mtsho chen
Gerze = sger rtse
Chamdo = chab mdo

But I don't think very many of the localisations have been set up to represent the name would have been pronounced at the time. And think of poor Arumba! Even Tibetans couldn't stand to keep pronouncing their words this way. "Modern Tibetan is essentially Old Tibetan as spoken by people whose tongues went numb from trying to actually pronounce Old Tibetan as written."
 
Hopefully it's just a placeholder until Crackd sends them the new facepack he made... maybe it'll default to Mongols if you don't have it?
With more than one default facepack since HL i can guarantee it'll be at least one of the generic faces for tibetans.

So far all the facepacks in india havd been bundled or free. I'd love to see that trend applied to tibet too but i'' not holding my breath.
 
In fact expanding West Africa into something (more) sensefull* would not require any map expansion.

You are correct. However we won't be seeing Kilwa I fear! :(
 
The problem with map expansion isn't the map per se or with performance, but rather will mechanics that work for feudal europe be good enough to cover chinese empire. I think not.
 
The problem with map expansion isn't the map per se or with performance, but rather will mechanics that work for feudal europe be good enough to cover chinese empire. I think not.

Because a China Expansion would of course not focus on Imperial Government mechanics... Of course Imperial Government would be the main selling point of a China expansion.
 
Because a China Expansion would of course not focus on Imperial Government mechanics... Of course Imperial Government would be the main selling point of a China expansion.

I think this more than anything else is why they're not doing China. India may have been a big map expansion, but India didn't have a distinct enough government system separate from Europe's to feel too out of place. They were essentially still just land lords in the feudal sense.

China was almost like a modern nation state in the medieval world. They had censors that moved in and out of provinces so that no one could root themselves and create rebellion. Of course none of this worked really well because inevitably generals became warlords. But on a principle level it was very different from what was happening in the rest of the world what with examinations and a more meritocratic ranking of officials dominating the imperial council. I would still love it if China was included, but it would probably feel very wrong outside of the periods of disunity.
 
I think this more than anything else is why they're not doing China. India may have been a big map expansion, but India didn't have a distinct enough government system separate from Europe's to feel too out of place. They were essentially still just land lords in the feudal sense.

China was almost like a modern nation state in the medieval world. They had censors that moved in and out of provinces so that no one could root themselves and create rebellion. Of course none of this worked really well because inevitably generals became warlords. But on a principle level it was very different from what was happening in the rest of the world what with examinations and a more meritocratic ranking of officials dominating the imperial council. I would still love it if China was included, but it would probably feel very wrong outside of the periods of disunity.

Would help the Byzantine Empire too... or the Teutonic Order if it would be playable. Or some of the Muslim states.
 
I think this more than anything else is why they're not doing China. India may have been a big map expansion, but India didn't have a distinct enough government system separate from Europe's to feel too out of place. They were essentially still just land lords in the feudal sense.

China was almost like a modern nation state in the medieval world. They had censors that moved in and out of provinces so that no one could root themselves and create rebellion. Of course none of this worked really well because inevitably generals became warlords. But on a principle level it was very different from what was happening in the rest of the world what with examinations and a more meritocratic ranking of officials dominating the imperial council. I would still love it if China was included, but it would probably feel very wrong outside of the periods of disunity.
While I am strongly against adding China to CK2, I must say that CK2 would really benefit from working Imperial government system.
I think it could very well be designed around Byzantine and Oriental (muslim) systems which both were distinct from European feudalism. Fatimid, Great Seljuk, Abbasid and Byzantine empires as well as Andalusian Umayyads would all deserve a distinctive imperial system with bureaucracy eroding into feudal elements of government. After all it would also serve well the HRE (Barbarossian) and Charlemagne's empires too, with some minor differences.

I have no knowledge about Chinese system, so I can't really say how much could the Chinese imperial system fit to Byzantines or others I mentioned, but with some degree of abstraction, it could work. So if China DLC would bring a working Imperial system, I think I would accept it. On the other hand, I would really prefer the Imperial system to be built around what we have in CK2 without having to include China and East Asia.
 
So far all the facepacks in india havd been bundled or free. I'd love to see that trend applied to tibet too but i'' not holding my breath.

Honestly they'll probably bundle it with the new DLC, it seems like they are going back to that method instead of the pure a la cart method, or even the DLC and Content Pack method, that they have used the last few years.
 
Then I know what game I'm not buying!
Second this. So much content from the dlc's need to be present or a LOT of fixes to make ck3 worth it.

Cut the steppe or india and it'll be a long time before I buy the sequel.

They seem to have the attitude that sequals need to be worth it on their own though so hopefully it wont be so bad.
 
Well they may drop some things like India if their metrics show that most people really do hate it. I wouldn't mind them shrinking the breadth if the depth was much greater than CK2, but that's only because it would be a development time trade off. If they just axe India I'll be pretty annoyed, especially if they later resell it as a DLC.

Hopefully what was really meant was cutting mechanics that people don't use often, like say making your own vassal merc band or the Chronicle. Those I could understand, in a streamlining sense.