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CK2 Dev Diary #53: Time to pay Tribute

Greetings!

Today I’d like to talk to you about a part of the game that we’ve chosen to overhaul and improve - the Tributary system! Introduced in Horse Lords, the ‘Make Tributary’ CB allowed you to go to war with a neighboring realm to make them pay you 40% of their income until the death of your current character. It was quite a simple system that didn’t always fit the intended purpose very well, so we decided to make it more advanced and capable of diverse use!

Tributaries can now come in a lot of flavors, as they are entirely definable in a new ‘tributary_types’ file. You define a name and then you set the parameters for how you would like the Tributary to work. You are able to customize a lot of things, for example; the various tribute percentages, if the Tributary should be set free on death or if the Suzerain must defend the Tributary in wars.

With this new system we have lots of ideas on where we could add new types of Tributaries, i.e. Permanent Tributaries or Nomad Tributaries. If you have any ideas for a type of Tributary (and when it would make sense to have it/when to gain access to the CB) feel free to post a suggestion in this thread!

To demonstrate, here’s the script for an example Tributary type:

Code:
example = {                                # name used for that type of tributary. "default" is the standard type, replacing the old tributaries, and "none" is reserved and should not be used
    tributary_name = TRIBUTARY_DEFAULT_NAME        # localization string used for tributaries of that type (ie "Tributary" for the default type, "Permanent Tributary" for the Permanent type, etc)
    tributary_plural = TRIBUTARY_DEFAULT_PLURAL    # localization string used for tributaries of that type, when there is more than one (ie "Tributaries" for the default type, "Permanent Tributaries" for the Permanent type, etc)
    suzerain_name = SUZERAIN_DEFAULT_NAME        # localization string used for suzerains of that tributary type (ie "Suzerain" for the default type, "Permanent Suzerain" for the Permanent type, etc)
    tribute_name = TRIBUTARY_DEFAULT_TRIBUTE    # localization string used for "paying $TRIBUTE$" for that tributary type
    breaks_at_suzerain_death = yes        # yes/no value determining if the tributary relationship is dissolved when the suzerain dies.
    breaks_at_tributary_death = no         # yes/no value determining if the tributary relationship is dissolved when the tributary dies
    suzerain_must_defend = no             # yes/no value determining if the suzerain is forced to accept calls to arms from tributary in defensive wars (wars were the tributary is the defender)
                                        # if they decline anyway, they will lose the tributary and an amount of prestige defined in defines.lua, called SUZERAIN_DEFENDER_CALL_DECLINE_COST
    tributary_can_be_summoned = yes     # yes/no value determining if the suzerain can calls the tributaries to war (as tribal vassals / allies)   
    tributary_must_defend = yes            # yes/no value determining if the tributaries are forced to accept defensive calls to arms
    tributaries_can_infight = yes        # yes/no value determining if the tributaries can fight against each others, if both tributaries are of the same type
                                        # if tributaries are of different types, they will always be allowed to fight each other, even if they have the same suzerain
    suzerain_can_join_infighting = yes    # yes/no value determining if the suzerain can join a tributary in a war against another
    tributaries_can_unite = no             # yes/no value determining if, when trying to break, the tributaries can band together against the suzerain, à la major revolt
    breaks_on_realm_change=yes            # yes/no value determining if the tributary relationship is dissolved when the tributary's titles change realms
    cbs_against_suzerain = {            # list of CBs tributaries can use against their suzerain
        free_tributary_cb
    }
    income_tribute_percentage = {        # how much of their monthly income the tributary must pay to their suzerain.
                                        # THIS IS ONLY EVALUATED WHEN THE TRIBUTARY RELATIONSHIP IS FORMED
                                        # and is not reevaluated afterwards
                                        # this value is an MTTH and should compute a value between 0 and 1, inclusive
                                        # in case the total is less than 0, it will be counted as 0
                                        # in case the total is more than 1, it will be counted as 1
                                        # current scope is the tributary, FROM is the suzerain
        value = 0.10
        additive_modifier = {
            value = 0.05
            FROM = {
                is_merchant_republic = yes
            }
        }
    }
    reinforce_tribute_percentage = {    # How much of the tributary's reinforcement rate will go to the suzerain's instead.
                                        # THIS IS ONLY EVALUATED WHEN THE TRIBUTARY RELATIONSHIP IS FORMED
                                        # and is not reevaluated afterwards
                                        # this value is an MTTH and should compute a value between 0 and 1, inclusive
                                        # in case the total is less than 0, it will be counted as 0
                                        # in case the total is more than 1, it will be counted as 1
                                        # current scope is the tributary, FROM is the suzerain

                                        # this is applied by subtracting the percentage, as is, from the tributary's reinforcement rate
                                        # and adding a scaled (based on demesne size= version of the percentage to the suzerain
                                        # So, for example, the tributary loses 10% of reinforcement rate, but the suzerain gains 10% * (tributary's demesne size) / (suzerain's demesne size)
        value = 0.10
        additive_modifier = {
            value = 0.05
            FROM = {
                is_merchant_republic = yes
            }
        }
    }
    prestige_to_suzerain = {            # how much of prestige the suzerain gains every month per tributary (of that type) he holds
                                        # this value is an MTTH and the raw value will be added to the suzerain's prestige every month.
                                        # current scope is the suzerain, FROM is the tributary
        value = 0
    }
    prestige_to_tributary = {            # how much prestige the tributary gains every month
                                        # this value is an MTTH and the raw value will be added to the tributary's prestige every month.
                                        # to make them lose prestige, return a negative value
                                        # current scope is the tributary, FROM is the suzerain
        value = 0
    }
    piety_to_suzerain = {                # how much of piety the suzerain gains every month per tributary (of that type) he holds
                                        # this value is an MTTH and the raw value will be added to the suzerain's piety every month.
                                        # current scope is the suzerain, FROM is the tributary
        value = 0
    }
    piety_to_tributary = {                # how much of piety a tributary gains every month
                                        # this value is an MTTH and the raw value will be added to the tributary's piety every month.
                                        # to make them lose piety, return a negative value
                                        # current scope is the tributary, FROM is the suzerain
        value = 0
    }
}

I’d also like to expand upon something we touched upon in the last DD; the new ‘unjust conquest’ CB (now renamed to Border Dispute). When declaring a Border Dispute over a County you first and foremost have to pay an upfront cost of Piety and Gold scaled to your tier (in the case of Pagans, prestige is used), but you also take an opinion hit from both your religious head (if you have one) as well as any landed characters of the targeted religious group in both your realm and the one you’re attacking. Note that these opinion modifiers stack! This makes the border Dispute CB dangerous to use on characters of your own religion, especially if you have a religious head capable of excommunicating you. You will primarily want to use this CB to expand early on when drawing the ire of your co-religionists is worth the risk, or against characters not of your religion.

Border_dispute_tooltip.png

Example is of an Irish Count wanting to conquer another Irish Count.


Note that Muslims, Nomads and in certain cases Pagans do not have access to this CB, as their current CB’s are already superior. It is also possible to turn the CB off entirely by using Game Rules.
Border_dispute_GR.png


Note that we’ve also decided to leave Fabricate Claim as it is right now.
 
Tributary types:

Tributary state:

A permanent form of tributary only available for use on equal or lower ranking characters of the same religion. Use it to make a ruler become your permanent tributary but only gain 20% of his tribute. Opens up a few diplomatic options. 1st integrate as vassal. For a large cost of prestiege and money and a high enough opinnion you can turn this tribute into a normal vassal. Cost scales with province count. 2nd For an excessive sum of prestiege you can put any body in your dynasty as head of the tributary. Cost scales with provinces.

Partial vassal:
A very special situation which makes the lands inside your de jure stay as a kind of tributary when a vassal gets an equal or higher title. For example the normandy part of england would pay tribute. Or the non HRE parts of bohemia and the teutonic order. Only available for christians.

Defender of the pope:
Become a special kind of tributary to your religious leader. Suzerains name does not appear over your nations. You pay a small amount of your taxes 2-5% and gain some piety while you are a defender. You cannot ask the pope to help you but he can ask you. Tributary status ends on characters death, popes death, excommunication, or by using an action with the pope. Zealous Ai with a high opinnion of the pope will become a defender and never leave until death or excommunication.

Chinese tributary:
If you own land boardering the eastern part of the map you may send tribute in exchange for protection from non chinese tributes. If a non chinese tribute attacks you you get a decision to spawn a cheaper army for prestiege and cash. Also chinese mercenaries become available to you for purchase. You may also ask for a chinese general or courtisan ti spawn in your lands.

Defensive tribute:
When a tribal duchy or lower of your culture is attacked and you have 5000 prestiege you can unify your culture by temporarily raising yourself to a kingtutle and taking on all duke or lower tribal nations of your culture, that like you by 50 opinnion or more as a tributary vassal. While you are king you may not wage offensive wars and you will lose your king title and vassals upon death or after 10 years vassals can leave your service while not at war. This is intended as a last minute defence for small tribes like the irish, norse, and russians. This could also be acomplished with generalized defensive pacts.

The late holy roman empire:
After the year 1330 the emperor of the holy roman empire may pass the golden bull decision. Upon passing all vassals outside of the emperors dejure kingdom become tributaries to the emperor. These tributes pay taxes roughly equivalent to anormal vassal and pay some piety and prestiege to the holy roman emperor. All tributes have an alliance with the emperor so if he attacks he may call them all in to war but if he is attacked only the emperor will come to defend the tributary. This simulates something very similar to the HRE in eu4 and gives the emperor of the hre the option to trade dirrect control of some land for a more steady income of money piety and prestige.

March:
Unlike other tributaries a march is created by selecting an outward facing vassal and designating them as a march. This will remove all vassal obligations and form a tributary like relationship. Instead of paying tribute a march gets large manpower bonuses and defensive attrition against enemies. In exchange the march must help his liege in all wars. If a march becomes stronger than its leige it may declare independance without bloodshed. Dukes may only have one march count, kings may have two marches and emperors three. Suzerains may reintegrate marches as vassals through prestige. If a march loses its outsidd facjng border it returns to being a vassal. Suzerains may push the claims of their marches and even decalre wars for its march's interests instead of his own, for example a holy war.

Here's a few more changes to tributaries i'd like to see:

Tributaries should be allowed to join factions. Especially the independence faction.

Certain kinds of tributaries should pay tribute based on opinnion just like vassals.
 
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It's somhow ridiculous that if a king tier wins a tributary war against an empire tier the later still calls himself an Emperor.

So if an Emperor loses in that case the Empire should be destroyed. King tier vassals set free and he keeps all his duke and count vassals.

If this is to harsh at least call him king and take all the boni while of empire tier while he is a tributary.

Yeah, because the Roman Empire was destroyed the first time it was sacked by barbarians. It didn't spend almost a thousand years (or only centuries, depending on what you cant as the "end" or the Roman Empire) sliding into oblivion.
 
A small tributary suggest, allow it to be tied to a title instead of a character. We can use that to make specific titles pay tribute to another realm, but not the entirety of the first's realm. For example, after William conquers England, the duchy of Normandy becomes a tributary state of France. Same with any other lower titles that remain sovereign territory of another title when their owner increases in rank through conquest or inheritance. That way, it is possible to have someone who has dual vassalage or has a part of their territory as vassal territory.
 
Perhaps it would make sense, that border dispute is not a valid CB against Capital Counties, as that would be technically conquest, not a dispute...
 
Cheers for the DD Rageair :). Deeper tributaries is a great addition for the period, and depth of moddability looks very good indeed :).
 
An idea for a type of tributary would be the English Heptarchy period, where one ruler would attempt to become bretwalda over the over English kings (usually Northumbria and Mercia, but also Wessex towards the end).
In terms of how it works, I'd say that a tribute of about 20%, the ability to appoint bishops, and it being unbroken on ruler death, but causing tribute to stop for a certain amount of time (eg a year) during which time the tributaries can declare independence against a (presumably) weakened overlord? And If possible, making it so that if the tributary status is unbroken for two generations in row, then the overlord usurps the title (if equal title), and the tributary becomes a regular vassal?
I think it should also be possible to form De Jure Kingdoms/Empires through tributaries, but the tributaries' land counts for less then it's really worth, meaning you'd still need to normally rule a good chunk and have far more of the De Jure land of the title controlled by Tributes in order to make it(say you owned 25% of the needed land, your Tributaries would need to rule 50% of it to amount to the remaining 25% you need to form a Kingdom)
 
The tributaries could be really interesting you could have a system where tributaries gradually drift towards being actual vassals over time, sort of bridging the gap between vassals and tributiaries (which is very shifting under a feudal system to being with).
 
The game may need more gold sinks, but not necessary for the early years, when you are likely to declare a border dispute.

You can justify a gold cost for pretty much anything if you try hard enough. But does it make sense for a new player that some wars cost gold and others don't?
There must be smarter solutions that don't add more complexity to a game already pretty complex.


If you don't want to force the issue or simply don't have the money or prestige to justify your "claim" then simply get your Chancellor to Fabricate a Claim and wait. The idea is that if you are well liked and highly regarded then you can push for a resolution on your own, otherwise you have to spend time and money making your case to all and sundry.
 
The tributaries could be really interesting you could have a system where tributaries gradually drift towards being actual vassals over time, sort of bridging the gap between vassals and tributaries (which is very shifting under a feudal system to being with).

I know it's out of period but this could be used to create something like the Delian League in ancient Greece - local major power forms defensive pact against even stronger external enemy and all it asks in return is money to help defray its costs in organising and running the League. Over time "contributions" become expected, then mandatory, until the defensive pact becomes a tributary arrangement.

The possibilities here are endless !
 
Cadet Houses! abdication! Being able to create titles, like Prince of Wales! Being able to mediate others' wars! Being able to demand war compensations from opponent who is eager to finish the war even though the war score is not high enough, especially when he is a new ruler eager to crush some rebellions, like what Phillip II of France did when Henry III of England is about to claim the throne! Being able to get a land title from a marriage, like what Henry II of England got from his wife Eleanor! And being able to select claimant to side with when there's a throne claiming wars ongoing, just like what's happening in the Hundred Years' War.
 
I hope those figures are going to change. 100 gold+100 piety (plus the opinion penalty with religious head) is way too expensive for me to use this for a single county, a ducal claim is way more efficient and cheaper.
 
Although I do not speak for them.

It is in my opinion that it is needed simply for utility that even larger empires or kingdoms need it as an option when trying to take one specific county.

And although its speed and consistency isn't there it does work for smaller starts of the game just starting to expand.
well you also have it Espionage. Move it to the Menu as a plot. If it successful . It auto starts a war and is a Justified war . if failed The Pope is very mad at you. May even excommunicate you.