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CK2 Dev Diary #68: Taming the Dragon

Greetings!

Today I’d like to talk about what you can do should you decide that being in the Emperor’s good graces isn’t a priority. While most characters will want to pay tribute to China in order to reap benefits over a longer time, certain characters would rather give that up for short-term gain - or simply think themselves a contender to the Middle Kingdom…

You can take Hostile Actions towards China by entering a special menu located next to the portrait of the Western Governor in the China Screen. In this menu you will exclusively find actions that in one way or another displeases the Emperor - the most basic of examples being the decision to declare a war to free yourself from being an Imperial Tributary.
Hostile Actions.png


The three most interesting Hostile Actions you can take are the following three ones; Raiding China, Forcing China to Open Up and Invading China.

Raiding China
This action can only be taken if you own a province within a certain Geographical region, which includes Tibet, Mongolia and Eastern India. When you choose to Raid China, you give up a portion of your Levy and Levy Regain Rate (Manpower if Nomadic), a significant chunk of your Trade Income should you own any Silk Road Trade Posts, and the ability to Pay Tribute or Ask for Boons. You will also lose a static amount of Grace every month you Raid China. Raiding China will also paint a target on your head - should China go on the warpath, they might just visit you first...

When Raiding China you will, each year, receive loot taken from the outskirts of the Middle Kingdom. A random amount of Gold, Prestige and other treasures can be found when Raiding, making the interaction particularly attractive for smaller realms (i.e. the tribal peoples in Northern Tibet) and Nomads (as they rely heavily on prestige, and lack many sources of income).

There are many potential outcomes when Raiding China, while most often you will receive a modest amount of gold and prestige, sometimes you will receive something altogether more rare - your raiders can bring home vast treasures, artifacts, siege engineers (of questionable loyalty), concubines or even beasts from the Chinese wilderness…
Raiding China.png


Forcing China to Open Up
If China should turn inwards and become Isolationist you might find your empire without the massive benefits of the Silk Road. If you’re strong enough, you can try and make China open up the Silk Road again. This can be done in a multitude of ways - all which start with you negotiating with them:

Peaceful Negotiation - The Emperor might demand something from you in exchange for opening up - for example that you become his Tributary, or that you send back all Chinese characters in your court, etc.

War - If negotiations fail, you can decide to attack China in order to make them open up. This will act much like a normal war against China, with them bringing in forces from China proper to teach you a lesson in humility.

Being Sovereign on the Silk Road - If you control enough of the Silk Road yourself, you might decide to simply open the Silk Road again. This will NOT please China, who might retaliate with military force.

Should you succeed in opening up the Silk Road you will become Favored in Trade for a significant amount of years, increasing your Trade Post income by 100%.

Invading China
Invading China is no easy task - and reserved exclusively for massive empires with vast armies. Similarly to the Mongols, Invading China can be seen as an ‘end-game boss’, only that the war is started on your terms - when you feel ready to take them on.

In order to Invade China it needs to be either Stable or in a Golden Age, as this war represents less of an opportunistic land-grab and more a clash of titans. As China isn’t on the map, you will not be able to seize the Dragon Throne for your own character - but you will be able to seize it for your Dynasty! Before declaring the invasion, you select a Dynasty member (who doesn’t stand to inherit any land) to be the pretender to the Middle Kingdom.
Invade China.png


For as long as the war is going on, you will have a massive penalty to your Levy Regain rate (simulating troops seizing China Proper). In response, China will send a massive force westwards to challenge your armies - this army is vast, composed of high-quality troops and led by the very best Chinese commanders. The war itself focuses on battles and supremacy on the battlefield, rather than sieges - you will not be able to win this type of war by blitzing the lands of the Western Protectorate (should it have any), and neither will China be able to win it by just sieging your holdings. Typically, you will have to defeat about 75% of China's forces, along with reclaiming everything they might have sieged from you, in order to secure a victory.

Long-time players of CK2 might be vary of such a war, as the AI in CK2 tended to gather up all their troops in one massive doomstack - either suiciding to attrition, or in the case of attrition-free troops steamroll the opposition. After having playtested the Invasion we decided to revamp the AI in situations where it commands vast amounts of troops - they will now try and respect supply limits, though they will still want to stick close to other units and support them in potential battles. The following screenshot displays the new behaviour:
Chinese Troops Arrive.png


This means that to defeat China, your best bet is to lure them into mountain passes or use other terrain to your advantage.

If you win the Invasion of China, you will receive VAST rewards. You will immediately get a massive amount of gold, grace, prestige and artifacts (including all top-quality Chinese artifacts). You will also personally take any land the Western Protectorate might have had in the west. Your pretender will rise to the throne of China, forming a new Chinese-style dynasty, and your dynasty will be guaranteed to rule for at the very least 200 years. For as long as your dynasty rules, all landed members of your dynasty will receive a significant amount of grace every month - allowing them to tap into the vast resources of China much more easily than they would otherwise. Having your Dynasty on the throne also (practically…) guarantees that China won’t ever take hostile actions against you or your Dynasty.
Turkish China.png


Note that in addition to these hostile actions, remember that you can always attack China with normal CBs, seizing the land of the Western Protectorate. That, however, is a thing you would be wise to do while China is suffering from some kind of disaster, as then they’ll be able to call upon much fewer troops than if they would be stable.
 
Off map. Kublai Khan didn't rule something on the map And he was already made governor over a large part of China after Mongke death. Also: Kublai Khan was never accepted as Great Khan and because of this ruled nothing which was on the map.
In addition to Emperor of China, Kublai Khan also claimed the title of Great Khan, supreme over the other successor khanates: the Chagatai, the Golden Horde, and the Ilkhanate. As such, the Yuan was also sometimes referred to as the Empire of the Great Khan. However, while the claim of supremacy by the Yuan emperors was at times recognized by the western khans, their subservience was nominal and each continued its own separate development.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuan_dynasty


Actually, the one historical mistake in that picture is that the Emperor "dislikes concubines". Pretty sure no emperor ever disliked concubines. :D
He could be gay.

Though if they call Kublai's on-map holdings "Western Protectorate" I may become nauseous...
No it should probably be the mongol empire just as a tributary of china. That said it will still say western protectorate over it. But it'll at least be nomadic not Confucian bureaucracy.

Probably mid October given the limited scope of this DLC. The only thing I can think of that they haven't covered in a dev diary yet is the Chinese Imperial government form.

So one more dev diary, and then another diary for patch notes. And then probably another week or two until release.
Limited? this is a map expansion that makes it a large DLC.

I like your premise but have giant question marks about your conclusion.

Master of the old world outside Asia? You mean the Middle East? Because in this time period the Middle East was much more developed and much more important and influencial to Eurasia than Europe. I get that Europe is the most fleshed out because most customers are only interested in European history but come on, it's feudal for a reason.
Well "in this time period" is a very loose thing considering how long the time period is. In the two early starts the Middle east certainly is, in fact the Baghdad caliphate even be greater than China (at least once the Tang starts fracturing) But in late vanilla, after the sack of Baghdad and so on I would argue that parts of Europe have caught up, if not eclipsed, the middle east. Don't get me wrong the turks and the mongols were powerful on the battlefields but they generally speaking weren't civilisation builders (The nomadic turks that is, the anatolian turks certainly were).
I don't disagree with you in the general sense, I just wanted to point out you were perhaps overgeneralizing... slightly. The guy you responded to was still plain wrong of course.

Ah, here I am reassured. The little novelty of the stream concerning the possibility of reforming in a "imperial Chinese government" has definitely acquired me to this dlc. What frightened me, above all, was not to be able to annihilate China. Now that this is settled, I look forward to this dlc hihihi. Do we have an idea of the release date ? (The question that is under each dev diary and which must annoy everyone at the highest point)
I think that's either Han or Taoist only.

*cough* Gnostics *cough*
Oh but instead we got Supernatural the medieval edition.

the largest fantasy expansion since "Sunset Invasion"
I would say M&M has SI beat. first of some dev did SI in his own time. While M&M took the greatest number of content designers they ever had. Secondly, aside from the invaders beign aztecs SI is not that bad. If they had been a Toltec or a Teotihuacán that never fell it's not so fa fetched they may have crossed the Atlantic before we did.

(which, while not my cup of tea for religious reasons * cough human sacrifice cough *, is not a bad EP either).
But they did human sacrifice didn't they, unlike the norse who are also represented to have it in game. I'm geniunly asking because I have never seen any suggestion that they didn't and I have been looking, I was seriously hoping it was an aztec thing and that the toltec and Teotihuacán didn't practice it but it seems they actually did too.

I personally think the Off-Map Interaction mechanics would be PERFECT for SI.
Yeah I agree there. I kind of hope that paradox will revisit it. Of map interactions is part of the patch anyway right? So they could technically do it.

You did not answer my question, and tried to point to a missing feature instead of that, which is kinda irrelevant. You wanted them and did not get them ? That's indeed too bad for you, but does that make the whole expansion bad ?
No not the whole expansion the portrait packs were kind of nice. I just wish I didn't have to buy the abridged works of Anne Rice to get them.

It's not uncommon that something is cut during development because of various reasons...
No but they cut pretty mcuh everyhting instresting from that DLC. Almost all societies are carbon copies of the same ones. And the far most work went into the satanists.

Interestingly enough, this is the exact reason that I think expanding the map was bad. It means less effort is being spent on mechanics and that of the effort that is being spent on mechanics it's being spent trying to fix the new stuff rather then ever going back and make the 1.0 stuff complete.
They can't charge us for patching content though, and if you want them to patch stuff they need to charge us for something.

Not all of it, but the core is - including the old capital of Karakorum.

Perhaps the Yuan governor of Lingbei (e.g. Mongolia) will be independent but a tributary of the Emperor of China, Kublai Khan?
Sounds reasonable. Should it be nomadic or Confucian bureaucracy?

I would LOVE to see the "shattered" mechanic apply to the HRE, Byz, and other empires/kingdoms that get defeated soundly in normal games. I don't know a fair way to do it. Maybe if they get a single 90%+ defeat? Maybe two 50%+ defeats within 10 years? Empires should not endure major beat-downs.
Maybe they could add some form of stability that if an empire loses a lot of revolts (external threats shouldn't count they tend to galvanize support for a centralized government not the opposite) drops low and opens up the potential to faction for the dissolution of the realm.

Emperor: Phak Hyu is out at the moment, but I can take a message.
Funny but the emperor of China does not take messages he has his bureaucrats do it for him.

LOL, it would be more funny if he likes AZTEC culture
Well in my mod the silk road reaches Cordoba so it could happen.

Maybe I'm missing something but I think it's a little odd that we can't invade China while it's unstable.

I understand the game mechanic aspect of creating a challenge for the player but I feel like the smart, realistic and historical option would be to hit the big power while it's weak not wait honorably till they're ready to give you a proper challenge.
Yeah I have no idea why they did it like that, no one has ever done it that way. It's still a clash between titans when china is unstable.


Realistically it would make for an easier transition of power, but you wouldn't realistically win in the first place. I also agree that it kind of breaks reality since ALL grand invaders of China invaded during times of turmoil. Mongolia, Manchu, Britain, Japan, nobody invaded when China was a functioning state.

They can have it so that a weakened China still puts up a good fight, since realistically conquering China was a long and bloody process even when China was in total chaos. It also allows for people who don't want cheese pan-continental empires to have a chance against China if they are smart with their commanders, strategy, tech, and internal stability. I mean, you should still be MAJOR to take on China, but it should be the likes of a centralized Caliphate, the Indian Empire, or the Roman Empire, and not Big-Red-Blob-Cheese-McGuffins
Yeah I agree it should be possible to invade china when they are stable but it should get a prompt pickup which says "China is not unstable, invading them will be almost impossibl e are you sure you want to proceed". Essentially invading china when they are stable should be impossible (well to win).

Wait why are people claiming Genghis Khan didn't invade China? Do the Jurchens not count? Does it not count because he died before the total victory over the north? Does it not count because he never took southern Song China?

In the stream we saw the Chinese getting replaced by Jurchens. Are the Song China or are the Jurchens China? Does the Jurchen invasion mean the Jurchens invade all of china?
The game seems to very oddly chose one of the empires in china when china is split. And for some reason it chose the song who were the least powerful, the song paid tribute to the others (Well they gave them gift being very careful not to sue the word tribute), the Western Xia, Laio, and Jin were all more powerful than the Song. This there is only one emperor of China is very much wrong for the period.

Here's my question: How are Warring Periods going to be represented, when there's not just 1 China, but 3 or 4 of them? And because CKII is 'Alt-History: The Game (Medieval Edition)', how can Non-Chinese States take advantage of these periods?
It as I understand it will largely be ignored. Which is really odd.

Wouldn't this just be a "bad" period for the Chinese empire? For all the rest of the world is concerned, China is in a civil war, not 3 sovereign states. A conqueror is just going to kill everyone equally, and a trader is going to do business with whatever representative of the "emperor" offers the best deal. Unfortunately, this expansion won't simulate the alternate history possibility of the "last" emperor of China, where China dissolves like Rome and becomes permanently fragmented like India.
No it's really not, you are pushing a modern concept of china on what was very much sovereign states. From the Tang to the Yuan, most of the CK2 timeframe there was no united china.
6_china_expansion.gif


Because he didn't became Emperor of China and didn't crown anybody emperor of China. Kublai Khan was the first Mongol Emperor of China.
So Genghis Khan didn't 'invade' China in game terms. It was more like 'Raiding'.

It's an random event in which the Jurchen can invade whole China. It's not a historical event.
Well the Song did pay tribute to them in reality so it's fairly obvious who was in fact the power in china during this era. And Genghis invaded the one who had the true military power in china. Kublai Khan wrote Genghis Khan as the founder of the Yuan dynasty, and that is not just him being revisionist (though it also to some extent is that).
It should also be noted that essentally Kublai Khan was the first true emperor of china since the fall of the Tangs.
Look I don't mind the mechanic as it is, but stop pretending it represents history perfectly because it does not. It's close enough and that's that.
 
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A lot of these new features should be applied to empires and large kingdoms. It would make empires less likely to blob and more likely to create buffer zones.

The way China works is very close to how some empires dominated regions in other parts of the world. I'm thinking about the Papacy, Byzantine Empire, Francia and France, HRE, Russian Empire, Persian Empire. It would be very interesting to see some of these features being added to realms. Possibly through using prestige and learning, law changes.

I like this idea!

I have heard that the Romans viewed themselves as the rulers of the whole world, like the Chinese, and that they saw the Mediterranean and Persia as habitable, and viewed the rest of the world as a uninhabitable wasteland. That is similar to the Chinese world view. So it would fit very well with the Byzantine Empire
 
The game seems to very oddly chose one of the empires in china when china is split. And for some reason it chose the song who were the least powerful, the song paid tribute to the others (Well they gave them gift being very careful not to sue the word tribute), the Western Xia, Laio, and Jin were all more powerful than the Song. This there is only one emperor of China is very much wrong for the period.
Whether a realm or another is the true Empire of China is not a question of military power (or economics power). This is a question of cultural and religious values.
Don't quote me on this, this is how I understand things:
The Emperor of China is whom who holds the Mandate of Heaven, which is a very Chinese concept. The empire is eternal. The dynasty ruling the empire holds the Mandate which is given by a natural order of things. It allows the ruler to rule. If a ruler is deposed, he loses the mandate, and thus the divine right to rule (this is not anymore in the order of thing for him to rule and he cedes his place).
Thus, this is closely linked with the Chinese political and cultural values, and in the end, this is mostly a matter of legitimating the rule of the emperor over Chinese people.

I don't think the Jurchen dynasty (Jin) ever claimed to have it... I don't think they needed it to justify their rule over Northern Chinese people. They built their Empire on the ruins of another Empire of non-Chinese people (Khitans of the Liao dynasty). They ruled over a large proportion of Jurchen and Khitan people, as well as Chinese people living under a foreign power for two centuries or so. They did not need to claim being the emperor of China.

This is pretty much the same for the Tangut state (Western Xia). Whether it was more powerful than the Songs I don't know (probably very wealthy due to the Silk Road), but it does not really matter as they did not hold Chinese Han mainland. Their population was a mix of Chinese ethnicities (including Han), Altaic people (including Uyghurs), Tibetan-Burmese people (Tibetan, Tangut). Again, they probably did not need to claim having the Mandate of Heaven to establish their rule.

Now about the Song dynasty. This was a Chinese Han dynasty, whose land included some of the most populated regions of China, and more important, a population of Chinese culture (with a large proportion of Han Chinese). They claimed the Mandate of Heaven and therefore, can be considered the Emperors of China. They identify to the values which defined the Empire of China for centuries (cultural and religious values).

This is also why the Yuan dynasty is often considered the first non-Chinese dynasty on the throne of the Empire of China (and not the Liao, Jin, Western Xia dynasties). To rule over Chinese people, Kublai needed to establish his legitimacy and thus, needed to adopt some of the Chinese political and cultural values. Some goes for the Qing dynasty.
 
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Wow. Ignore Karlings from my last post, someone already plans to install horses on Celestial Throne. Will descendants of Glitterhoof become unicorns or pegasuses once they usurp the Throne?

On a serious note. Are there any plans to enhance Sunset Invasion DLC with the new Off-map Empire mechanic that China gets? Aztec as an off-map entity could make the DLC a much more interesting experience. You just have to figure out a good mechanic for them instead of just being there somewhere sending half their population to invade Europe.
 
Oh, come on... I would be highly disapointed if you did not inadvertently leave room for shenanigans leading to claimants with claims on China to land and press, just as we had the hordes of Pope bastards or good old shananigan to inherit merc bands by proper use of attractive horses and a handful stabbings. Or a chance for a crusade for China? How could we have some good old CK2 fun otherwise? :(
I admit, it would be funny to see a Chinese doom stack cross over the map to defend it's one county in france.
But it's better this way.
 
A lot of these new features should be applied to empires and large kingdoms. It would make empires less likely to blob and more likely to create buffer zones.

The way China works is very close to how some empires dominated regions in other parts of the world. I'm thinking about the Papacy, Byzantine Empire, Francia and France, HRE, Russian Empire, Persian Empire. It would be very interesting to see some of these features being added to realms. Possibly through using prestige and learning, law changes.

Don't be silly, new content is only applied to old content if the result would be chaotic and asinine. Like Devil Worshippers or Councils.
 
It was at this start and that is why I am intensely irritated at this new DLC focused entirely on interaction between the player as a nationstate and China as a nationstate. Every single mechanic in Jade Dragon could be used in EUIV without the slightest change. That really shows how irrelevant characters have become to CKII. The change just happened slowly enough that a lot of people didn't notice.

Oh booooo hoooo one nation like mechanic means Way of Life doesn't exist, societies as character based content doesn't exist.

This game's center is Europe it is not just about Europe. You also underestimate how much European history was affected by outside forces that also need to be simulated.
 
Sounds reasonable. Should it be nomadic or Confucian bureaucrac

I believe Nomadic can do, since in practice the region remained largely pastoral and mostly disconnected from the Chinese economy.

However, if the Western Protectorate is supposed to be China's on-map presence, perhaps Yuan Lingbei can become the Western Protectorate (under Confuncian Bureaucracy)?
 
I have a question about modding. Is there a possibility to make off-mapa kingdom tier power?
It could be use in case of Papal States for example, as there were time, when they were vassals of HRE, and this mechanics can really extend interactions between Pope and his fellows. And btw. will it be able to put college of cardinals and antipopes system to use with it? Especially college of cardinals, because the second one can be based on the "Invasion China" mechanic. It will be preety also :D
 
Oh, come on... I would be highly disapointed if you did not inadvertently leave room for shenanigans leading to claimants with claims on China to land and press, just as we had the hordes of Pope bastards or good old shananigan to inherit merc bands by proper use of attractive horses and a handful stabbings. Or a chance for a crusade for China? How could we have some good old CK2 fun otherwise? :(

All of those incidents were terrible bugs that should not be repeated. That stupidity, other than the horse thing which the AI can't do, was rightfully patched out because it broke games.
 
The Invading China action is so weird.

1)

Although understood the idea to improve the difficulty of the invasion for better game experience, it's still non-sense to be only able to invade China during China's stable period or golden era. In fact, most of the invasions in Chinese history (e.g. Five-Barbarians, Jurchen, Mongolian and Manchurian) happened while the Central Kingdom is in decline or fragment.

So I still think that no China status needed for the invasion is more historical, but for improving the Chinese military power, a new status 'Anti-Invasion' can be added.

2)

I don't think there are any warlords willing to claim their non-familiar nephew as the son of heaven but not themselves. I'd better to see that after the success of the invasion, the proper lord became the non-playable EoC and player play as the heir who inherit the titles the proper lord held.
 
2)

I don't think there are any warlords willing to claim their non-familiar nephew as the son of heaven but not themselves. I'd better to see that after the success of the invasion, the proper lord became the non-playable EoC and player play as the heir who inherit the titles the proper lord held.

Kublai Khan to the thousands time... He was send to China by Möngke Khan. He was not an On Map ruler at the time his conquest started.
 
All of those incidents were terrible bugs that should not be repeated. That stupidity, other than the horse thing which the AI can't do, was rightfully patched out because it broke games.

How did the Pope's bastards broke the game? All it did was provide claims to said bastards that you could then press to install as Pope. Obviously it was not a very realistic way to get claims but was left to player's attention to use that bug or not. For the bastardy, I'll leave it here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sexually_active_popes

Also, if there are crusades for India, why not crusades for China?

As for the merc band shenanigans, I only mentionned attractive horse as a tongue in cheek in a humorous attempt; that would be highly impractical to get anything done that way. The trick used to be to marry heirs of merc bands so that merc band leaders would be married, fathering children with claims. Nothing game breaking here either. You say stupid, but I say why should two Empires allowed to own merc bands while I don't? And I say get off your high horse my good sir.

An exemple of thing that broke the game where the HRE inheriting the Eucumenical Patriarchate and leading to game over.

It will take more to stop me from plotting the equine take over of China anyway!
 
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Papal bastards used to crush Catholic MA, and them retaining claims only made an already pathetic Pope weaker. I did see the AI press those on a few occasions.

Crusade/Jihad/etc targeting is probably the most pressing issue in the game and I hope the devs are right when they say they have solved it. Crusades for India and Mongolia when the Middle East is not Catholic are moronic and cannot be defended.
 
Kublai Khan to the thousands time... He was send to China by Möngke Khan. He was not an On Map ruler at the time his conquest started.

In Chinese History traditional research, Kublai is recognized to be a viceroy before Möngke's death, and to be an EoC since claim himself as Khaghan of Monghol at Shangdu (Xanadu) after Möngke's death.

And in traditional Sino-Mongolian texture, Yuan Empire = Yeke Monghol Ulus (Great Mongolian Empire)
 
Whether a realm or another is the true Empire of China is not a question of military power (or economics power). This is a question of cultural and religious values.
Don't quote me on this, this is how I understand things:
The Emperor of China is whom who holds the Mandate of Heaven, which is a very Chinese concept. The empire is eternal. The dynasty ruling the empire holds the Mandate which is given by a natural order of things. It allows the ruler to rule. If a ruler is deposed, he loses the mandate, and thus the divine right to rule (this is not anymore in the order of thing for him to rule and he cedes his place).
Thus, this is closely linked with the Chinese political and cultural values, and in the end, this is mostly a matter of legitimating the rule of the emperor over Chinese people.

I don't think the Jurchen dynasty (Jin) ever claimed to have it... I don't think they needed it to justify their rule over Northern Chinese people. They built their Empire on the ruins of another Empire of non-Chinese people (Khitans of the Liao dynasty). They ruled over a large proportion of Jurchen and Khitan people, as well as Chinese people living under a foreign power for two centuries or so. They did not need to claim being the emperor of China.

This is pretty much the same for the Tangut state (Western Xia). Whether it was more powerful than the Songs I don't know (probably very wealthy due to the Silk Road), but it does not really matter as they did not hold Chinese Han mainland. Their population was a mix of Chinese ethnicities (including Han), Altaic people (including Uyghurs), Tibetan-Burmese people (Tibetan, Tangut). Again, they probably did not need to claim having the Mandate of Heaven to establish their rule.

Now about the Song dynasty. This was a Chinese Han dynasty, whose land included some of the most populated regions of China, and more important, a population of Chinese culture (with a large proportion of Han Chinese). They claimed the Mandate of Heaven and therefore, can be considered the Emperors of China. They identify to the values which defined the Empire of China for centuries (cultural and religious values).

This is also why the Yuan dynasty is often considered the first non-Chinese dynasty on the throne of the Empire of China (and not the Liao, Jin, Western Xia dynasties). To rule over Chinese people, Kublai needed to establish his legitimacy and thus, needed to adopt some of the Chinese political and cultural values. Some goes for the Qing dynasty.
The Song claimed the mandate but the recognition of it was far from universal and even some who recognized it had the song pay them "tribute" rather than pay tribute to the song as is appropriate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_of_Heaven#Five_Dynasties_period
I believe Nomadic can do, since in practice the region remained largely pastoral and mostly disconnected from the Chinese economy.

However, if the Western Protectorate is supposed to be China's on-map presence, perhaps Yuan Lingbei can become the Western Protectorate (under Confuncian Bureaucracy)?
Well any tributary to china will always have show up a western protectorate on the map regardless if they actually are the Western protectorate or not.
 
Papal bastards used to crush Catholic MA, and them retaining claims only made an already pathetic Pope weaker. I did see the AI press those on a few occasions.

Crusade/Jihad/etc targeting is probably the most pressing issue in the game and I hope the devs are right when they say they have solved it. Crusades for India and Mongolia when the Middle East is not Catholic are moronic and cannot be defended.

It's you calling broken what you don't like but that's not the true meaning of the word broken. Crusades is not game breaking either, there were just kingdoms with crusade weight and others with no weight, so once all kingdoms with wieight were owned by catholics, it would pick a random kingdom. It is just an incomplete list, that you can call "moronic" if you wish but that's still not a synonym for broken.

Anyway,... That's a lost battle to fight on the Internet so I'm done with this, you can freely use broken as a ponctuation mark if you will.
 
Kublai Khan to the thousands time... He was send to China by Möngke Khan. He was not an On Map ruler at the time his conquest started.

In the National Library of Paris, there is a letter written by IlKhan Oljeitu to Philip IV. The letter underlined that the internal strife within the family completely ended in 1304. And the letter says peace has been restored. Until the mid-14th century, the unity of Greater Mongol Empire was maintained.

The Mongol Khagans use Chinese titles for the convenience of governing, but this does not mean they are fully assimilated.