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CK2 Dev Diary #68: Taming the Dragon

Greetings!

Today I’d like to talk about what you can do should you decide that being in the Emperor’s good graces isn’t a priority. While most characters will want to pay tribute to China in order to reap benefits over a longer time, certain characters would rather give that up for short-term gain - or simply think themselves a contender to the Middle Kingdom…

You can take Hostile Actions towards China by entering a special menu located next to the portrait of the Western Governor in the China Screen. In this menu you will exclusively find actions that in one way or another displeases the Emperor - the most basic of examples being the decision to declare a war to free yourself from being an Imperial Tributary.
Hostile Actions.png


The three most interesting Hostile Actions you can take are the following three ones; Raiding China, Forcing China to Open Up and Invading China.

Raiding China
This action can only be taken if you own a province within a certain Geographical region, which includes Tibet, Mongolia and Eastern India. When you choose to Raid China, you give up a portion of your Levy and Levy Regain Rate (Manpower if Nomadic), a significant chunk of your Trade Income should you own any Silk Road Trade Posts, and the ability to Pay Tribute or Ask for Boons. You will also lose a static amount of Grace every month you Raid China. Raiding China will also paint a target on your head - should China go on the warpath, they might just visit you first...

When Raiding China you will, each year, receive loot taken from the outskirts of the Middle Kingdom. A random amount of Gold, Prestige and other treasures can be found when Raiding, making the interaction particularly attractive for smaller realms (i.e. the tribal peoples in Northern Tibet) and Nomads (as they rely heavily on prestige, and lack many sources of income).

There are many potential outcomes when Raiding China, while most often you will receive a modest amount of gold and prestige, sometimes you will receive something altogether more rare - your raiders can bring home vast treasures, artifacts, siege engineers (of questionable loyalty), concubines or even beasts from the Chinese wilderness…
Raiding China.png


Forcing China to Open Up
If China should turn inwards and become Isolationist you might find your empire without the massive benefits of the Silk Road. If you’re strong enough, you can try and make China open up the Silk Road again. This can be done in a multitude of ways - all which start with you negotiating with them:

Peaceful Negotiation - The Emperor might demand something from you in exchange for opening up - for example that you become his Tributary, or that you send back all Chinese characters in your court, etc.

War - If negotiations fail, you can decide to attack China in order to make them open up. This will act much like a normal war against China, with them bringing in forces from China proper to teach you a lesson in humility.

Being Sovereign on the Silk Road - If you control enough of the Silk Road yourself, you might decide to simply open the Silk Road again. This will NOT please China, who might retaliate with military force.

Should you succeed in opening up the Silk Road you will become Favored in Trade for a significant amount of years, increasing your Trade Post income by 100%.

Invading China
Invading China is no easy task - and reserved exclusively for massive empires with vast armies. Similarly to the Mongols, Invading China can be seen as an ‘end-game boss’, only that the war is started on your terms - when you feel ready to take them on.

In order to Invade China it needs to be either Stable or in a Golden Age, as this war represents less of an opportunistic land-grab and more a clash of titans. As China isn’t on the map, you will not be able to seize the Dragon Throne for your own character - but you will be able to seize it for your Dynasty! Before declaring the invasion, you select a Dynasty member (who doesn’t stand to inherit any land) to be the pretender to the Middle Kingdom.
Invade China.png


For as long as the war is going on, you will have a massive penalty to your Levy Regain rate (simulating troops seizing China Proper). In response, China will send a massive force westwards to challenge your armies - this army is vast, composed of high-quality troops and led by the very best Chinese commanders. The war itself focuses on battles and supremacy on the battlefield, rather than sieges - you will not be able to win this type of war by blitzing the lands of the Western Protectorate (should it have any), and neither will China be able to win it by just sieging your holdings. Typically, you will have to defeat about 75% of China's forces, along with reclaiming everything they might have sieged from you, in order to secure a victory.

Long-time players of CK2 might be vary of such a war, as the AI in CK2 tended to gather up all their troops in one massive doomstack - either suiciding to attrition, or in the case of attrition-free troops steamroll the opposition. After having playtested the Invasion we decided to revamp the AI in situations where it commands vast amounts of troops - they will now try and respect supply limits, though they will still want to stick close to other units and support them in potential battles. The following screenshot displays the new behaviour:
Chinese Troops Arrive.png


This means that to defeat China, your best bet is to lure them into mountain passes or use other terrain to your advantage.

If you win the Invasion of China, you will receive VAST rewards. You will immediately get a massive amount of gold, grace, prestige and artifacts (including all top-quality Chinese artifacts). You will also personally take any land the Western Protectorate might have had in the west. Your pretender will rise to the throne of China, forming a new Chinese-style dynasty, and your dynasty will be guaranteed to rule for at the very least 200 years. For as long as your dynasty rules, all landed members of your dynasty will receive a significant amount of grace every month - allowing them to tap into the vast resources of China much more easily than they would otherwise. Having your Dynasty on the throne also (practically…) guarantees that China won’t ever take hostile actions against you or your Dynasty.
Turkish China.png


Note that in addition to these hostile actions, remember that you can always attack China with normal CBs, seizing the land of the Western Protectorate. That, however, is a thing you would be wise to do while China is suffering from some kind of disaster, as then they’ll be able to call upon much fewer troops than if they would be stable.
 
In the National Library of Paris, there is a letter written by IlKhan Oljeitu to Philip IV. The letter underlined that the internal strife within the family completely ended in 1304. And the letter says peace has been restored. Until the mid-14th century, the unity of Greater Mongol Empire was maintained.

The Mongol Khagans use Chinese titles for the convenience of governing, but this does not mean they are fully assimilated.

The Chinese called the empire DaYuan, but the Mongols called it Dai-On, Yeke Mongol Ulus.
 
Counting down to people modding in an off-map interface for the Americas.
And if done properly and someone extends the timeline, I'll never have to play eu4 again.

The Chinese called the empire DaYuan, but the Mongols called it Dai-On, Yeke Mongol Ulus.
Trying really hard to not make a dijon joke. Not sure I can mustard the willpower though.
 
They can't charge us for patching content though, and if you want them to patch stuff they need to charge us for something.

And this is the reason I despise the DLC model. It isn't about what is best for the game, it's about what is virgin territory.

Oh booooo hoooo one nation like mechanic means Way of Life doesn't exist, societies as character based content doesn't exist.

Things I mentioned:
shifting loyalties during conflict (not in way of life)
weak kings having difficulties (not in way of life)
4th crusade type stuff (not in way of life)
needing loyalty for armies (not in way of life)
armies being difficult to keep in the field (not in way of life)
it mattering that you are ruling over different religions (not in way of life)
distant realms breaking off (not in way of life)

So exactly zero of the things I brought up were addressed by way of life.
 
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I would like them to make money from game sales.

The game didn't give them enough money to support free patches and additional content packs for 5 years... They would have to release a new CK every two years...
 
The game didn't give them enough money to support free patches and additional content packs for 5 years... They would have to release a new CK every two years...

Though admittedly they could make expansions focusing on expanding base content first, fixes in the free patches of course, but still.
 
Though admittedly they could make expansions focusing on expanding base content first, fixes in the free patches of course, but still.

And keep half of the map unplayable because of 'Core mechanics first!'?
 
And keep half of the map unplayable because of 'Core mechanics first!'?

Yes, thats a problem with this model that would have to be addressed, though I think eventually that extra content might come.
 
This should come with unbearable problems to rule this country. I can't see China being ruled from a foreign capital without a lot of instability and unrest. During the Mongol Empire period, Chinese lands were very hard to hold for the Mongols. And their capital was not even very far away. No wonder Kublai took Beijing as capital and progressively adopted a chinese imperial bureaucracy (same for the Qing dynasty centuries after).
On the contrary, if the capital is in China, with a foreign emperor adopting Chinese administration and aspects of Chinese culture, it would be very hard to rule lands past the Tarim Basin and in India... The distances are very long and the geography (deserts, mountain ranges) makes it difficult to enforce the rule of the Emperor by force very far into CK2 map.
Oh that's why i think your player character should take the throne of china and get a new separate heir and your old heir will continue to rule the on map parts. It's basically the same thing the devs have set up but in reverse.
 
The game didn't give them enough money to support free patches and additional content packs for 5 years... They would have to release a new CK every two years...

As I have said, I dont want DLC. So you are telling me to want the thing I dont want in order to get the other thing I dont want.
 
And this is the reason I despise the DLC model. It isn't about what is best for the game, it's about what is virgin territory.
It's not perfect but it's what we have.
How would you do it? The devs need money.
What I would do is fewer but larger DLCs they really only need one big showy feature per DLC fewer but larger and more expensive DLC would leave them with more resources to deal with game improvements instead of constantly adding new mechanics and stuff.
If they really want more I would say one real DLC per year and perhaps one or two content packs similar to the story packs of stellaris. Or the minor HoI4 DLCs.
The DLC format I like best is actually Cities Skyline, almost everything is in the patch, the DLCs contain very little it's more like "Hey we need money to keep developing our game so here's a few songs and hat for chirper if you continue to support us", and you know I plan on buying all of their DLC anyway. Because that model really appeals to me. It's like one of those bands who says "Please do download our music and if you like it leave a contribution".
 
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As I have said, I dont want DLC. So you are telling me to want the thing I dont want in order to get the other thing I dont want.

So every DLC is evil for you? That's stupid. expansions are important to expand a game. No game at release will be as good as a game which has the chance to be improved with dlc/expansion etc....
 
How did the Pope's bastards broke the game? All it did was provide claims to said bastards that you could then press to install as Pope. Obviously it was not a very realistic way to get claims but was left to player's attention to use that bug or not. For the bastardy, I'll leave it here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sexually_active_popes
It.. was a bit more complicated then that. The game modeled claims for the Papacy as Anti-popes. So all those bastards? Anti-popes. Each anti-pope tanks Catholic MA, in addition to acting as a pope for the local realm, which is entirely bizzare for the pope's bastards to do/be.
 
It.. was a bit more complicated then that. The game modeled claims for the Papacy as Anti-popes. So all those bastards? Anti-popes. Each anti-pope tanks Catholic MA, in addition to acting as a pope for the local realm, which is entirely bizzare for the pope's bastards to do/be.
That said it the pope having known bastards should tank MA somewhat not just what is it 50 or something from an antipope?
 
Oh that's why i think your player character should take the throne of china and get a new separate heir and your old heir will continue to rule the on map parts. It's basically the same thing the devs have set up but in reverse.
Ho! yeah actually why not. this is not a bad idea!
 
Can China split into North/South/West Chinese warring states? When the mongols conquered China they didn't fight a unified empire but instead a series of smaller kingdoms and empires.
800px-Mongol_Invasion_of_China.png


On a related but different note, what happens if two empires declare war on China at the same time? Can they each take a portion of China and then fight each other for the remainder, or does one 'win' first, and then have to face the second challenger?