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CK3 Dev Diary #06 - Council, Powerful Vassals, & Spouse Councillor

Greetings, friends!

I’m Wokeg, and I’m the juniorest of the content designers on CK3. Unless you like anarcho-communist insect people, you almost certainly haven’t heard of me: mostly I scuttle around the office mumbling about the West Country and obscure cultural features, but I’m here to talk to you today about your council, your powerful vassals, and the role of your spouse in the realm.

Let’s start with the basics: what have we carried over from CK2?

Your council still has five primary positions: a chancellor, steward, marshal, spymaster, and court chaplain, each relying on a particular skill (respectively, diplomacy, stewardship, martial, intrigue, and learning). Every councillor is either a vassal or a courtier of yours, and you are (mostly) able to hire and fire for these roles at will. Each of these council positions can be given different tasks, relying on an appropriate skill, which help your realm to survive and thrive. Theoretically.

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Ok, so that should be pretty familiar to most of you. So, what’s actually changed?

Firstly, state skills are gone. While they weren’t the worst thing in the world, you tended to forget they existed unless they were utterly abysmal, which was incredibly rare. Plus, personally, I could never get the mental image of your chancellor leaping in front of the king and clamping a hand over his mouth every time he thought of another dirty joke about the King of France out of my head.

Instead of affecting your character’s skill in certain interactions, councillor skills now dramatically affect their efficacy at the tasks you set them. A skilled steward not only yanks coins from the hands of undeserving peasants as fast as the peasants earn ‘em, they’ll also be much more likely to receive positive minor events while doing it. Similarly, a terrible steward is not just slow, they’ll actively bungle things and make a mess of your accounts as they go. Choosing between the politically-powerful idiot and the adroit courtier has never been quite so difficult.

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To compensate for this a little, merely being on your liege’s council will give you a very minor bonus to the appropriate skill for your position. Even a truly terrible councillor has at least some assistants helping them out.

Further, tasks now do not reset when changing councillors. If you tell your steward to keep increasing the development in a particular county, they’ll stick at it until told to stop, pausing if you have no steward at all. Council tasks in specific counties will only stop if the county stops being a valid place to perform that task, such as because a time-locked action (e.g., religious conversion) was completed, or because you lost the county in a war.

Instead of listing all the possible tasks each councillor can take, let’s keep things light and just have the most interesting/newest task each councillor can perform:
  • Chancellor: Integrate Title, speeds de jure drift of a valid title into your realm.
  • Marshal: Increase Control in County, increase control gain per month in a specific county.
  • Steward: Increase Development in County, reduce building & holding construction time in a specific county. Boost development growth per month in the same.
  • Spymaster: Find Secrets, attempt to learn of secrets in a given court, including your own.
  • Court Chaplain: Fabricate Claim on County, gain opportunities to acquire claims on a specific county.

Ok, that was a lot of information on non-dramatic differences. Are there any really big changes we’ve got stored up?

Well now, that depends. Are you single and outside the reach of that meddlesome Pope? Then life might seem pretty smooth, at least for a while. On the other hand, if you’re a married Catholic…

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The first part of this is marriage, and, as you may have guessed from the title of this dev diary, the five classic slots are now joined by your primary spouse! Historically, spouses were often vital assistants in running the realm, providing counsel and advice even when they, strictly speaking, were not supposed to.

We model this by giving them a variety of council tasks, each one boosting your stats directly by taking some of the weight of leadership off of your shoulders. The default is a generic “assist ruler” task, simply helping out here and there, and providing a minor flat boost to all skills, for those rulers who feel like they can pretty much tackle the world unassisted. Discounting vassals as assistance, because, y’know, obviously.

If you need more specialised help, you can also have them boost a specific stat directly. This adds a large portion of their skill directly to yours, as you offload an immense amount of power and responsibility onto your spouse, lending them your authority in exchange for their skill. While focusing in this manner, they’ll only boost their assigned skill, so you’ll need to choose how they support you carefully.

Don’t have a spouse? Well, that’s ok, single feudal heirs are out there just waiting to meet you.

Have a spouse and they’re landed? I’m afraid they’ve got better things to do than finish your lordly homework for you.

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Now, for the second of our two major differences: have you ever heard the phrase “Will no one will rid me of this turbulent priest”?

Well, have we got some turbulent priests for you.

Certain faiths (details on which, other than Catholicism, to follow in a later diary) replace the court chaplain with a bishop. If you still have a court chaplain, then they’ll behave much like other councillors, though some faiths may still have a harder time firing them.

Bishops use a mechanic called leasing (though they’re not the only ones to do so), whereby they control all levies and receive all taxes from every temple holding in your personal domain. Additionally, your bishop will receive a fraction of the taxes and levies generated by all of your vassals’ bishops. All told, that’s a lot of ducats the Church seems to be getting, isn’t it?

Of course, as loyal subjects of the crown, your bishop will be very happy to hand over taxes and troops to you, scaling with quite how happy they are. A loyal bishop is a huge boon for your economy and military, and can make the difference between unstoppable royal might and economic ruin.

A recalcitrant bishop, by contrast, is an utter pain. If they do not approve of you at least a little, they’ll hold back taxes and levies until you meet their standards again, and if they actively hate you, may even begin conspiring with others to replace you with a more pious monarch.

Of course, you’re probably asking what stops you from firing your bishop and replacing them with, say, a good friend of yours?

Around these parts, that’s what we call heresy. And you’ll have to wait till the religious dev diary for details on exactly what your options are for legally sacking your bishop. As for illegally, well, no Pope can stop a knife to the base of the spine...

Turbulent priests indeed.

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Our final talking point for today is the subject of powerful vassals.

These should be familiar to many of you from CK2’s Conclave expansion: powerful vassals are the wealthiest lords with the highest levy counts in the realm. They’re powerful, influential, and unruly, and you ignore them at your peril. The higher your tier, the more of them you’ll have to contend with, and eventually you’re going to have to pick who you want to snub rather than how you want to please everyone.

As in Conclave, powerful vassals always expect a seat on your council. They’re the greatest magnates of their day, damn it, and they demand to be heard! Leaving one out in the political cold will give you a huge opinion penalty with that character, since a council seat is theirs by right of might.

Not any particular seat, mind you, and just because they might not be able to organise an army to save their life, that’s no reason for you not to give them the role of marshal. Power is basically the same as competence, right?

So, what do you actually directly get out of acquiescing to these uppity lords? Well, there’s one very important function that powerful vassals tie into directly: changing your succession. CK2 required you to have all vassals who both de jure and de facto belong to one of your titles approve of you before you could change your succession. In CK3, that veto belongs to your powerful vassals alone, and they very much know it.

Finally, powerful vassals are also hooked into a number of other systems in little ways, some of which may be talked about in later dev diaries, some of which we can talk about here. In elective successions, they usually receive more votes, as they have more sway over the realm’s processes. When recruiting for schemes, powerful vassals make better agents, provided you can persuade them, and since they know this, they’re also harder to use the sway scheme on. And, lastly, an unhappy powerful vassal in a faction is a far more worrisome prospect (more on factions later down the line).

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Well, that’s all we have to say on your council’s functions for now. I hope that this has answered some of your burning questions and got you excited to manage the governance of your realm.

Next week, I believe we have some notes on characters, portraits, and traits...
 
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So there won't be any barony-level clergy vassals since the realm bishop will control the churches in your counties.

Well, true, but I still hope there would be characters (let's call them "priests" for lack of a better nomenclature) that you can use for your council...
 
Being or not in the fields this would be a nice detail to represents his position i think. Nothing bad if it stays as it is, but if we can see this in commanders, it would be cool too


I see it much more fit for commanders than for the marshal (a bit like in I:R, the Praetorii don't get a uniform by default while the commanders do). Marshall is more a court role, not implying any necessary engagement with the battlefield; commanders are "there" on the ground.

Quite the contrary, I like how your portraits say much more about the character beyond its role (the Marshall in the screenshot is clearly a lowborn and we can see it by his simpler dress compared to the brocades of the other courtiers...).

A little off-topic: I'd like to see commanders having more importance as characters, taking a leaf out of I:R.

EDIT: the Marshall was obviously a lowborn and not a newborn. Or maybe he onece was the snake newborn that survived and went on to be a Marshall.
 
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I wouldn't call these changes small! De jure drift of a title as an actual councillor job sounds interesting, but even more interesting is the fact that now it's the Court Chaplain who will be occupied with fabricating claims. And looking at the rest of the Dev Diary, if your Court Chaplain/Archbishop/Archpriest isn't happy with you, you won't be getting many claims either! So appeasing the clergy already has a relevant impact on politics, I like it!

Also, this make Learning much more important.
 
To be honest, I'm quite disappointed by CK3 council. I hoped for a less rigid than CK2 system, more flexible, as how the council was composed and worked was extremely different from a country to another in the medieval era.

Same, I hoped council (the guys getting honors and you consult over political changes to make them more legitimate) and advisors (the guys you give missions, doing the daily administration work of the realm) would finally be made two different things.

Politics 101 since politics are a thing (and it was the case in middle ages), is you can make a small or large government, depending if you look for efficiency or giving a lot of people an official position and voice. Having a very limited number of fixed roles, always the same no matter your government type, and you can't split at all, to distribute, looks a bit artificial for me, and even more if only the owners of these positions can be invited to your council.

Politics 102 is the people that matter the most in a country efficiency are not the ones getting officially important political positions (aka ministers, your ck 'advisors' and council members) but the members of the high administration doing the actual work (aka the people advising them or doing missions for them, a good ambassador is far more important for a diplomatic mission than the chancellor who tasked him).

That said it's undestanstable they made these choices with game challenge in mind. Forcing the player to either take sub-optimal advisors either piss his powerful vassals is a way to provide interesting dilemnas, while a more realistic system may end too easy (make large council with limited power positions to please as many nobles you need, developp an high administration of genius courtiers to compensate your councillors lack of skills, etc).

But what I fear is this choice will be detrimental to the rpg aspect as characters behavior will be more influenced by if they are a powerful vassal or not, than their actual personnality. While the case of an incompetent vassal having an high opinion of himself and absolutely wanting to be involved in realm level politics should certainly exist, it should be the result of his personnality, not simply of him owning one more county than another vassal. If, say, someone's life interest is theology or making as many bastards to his courtiers wives as he can, he has no reason to want to be involved in realm level politics.

It's already something I dislike in CK2, seing every duke getting the same modifiers for "wanting to have autority on [every land in a de jure entity that perhaps never existed de facto in this alternate history]" or "desiring your throne" [just because some ancestor got a claim on it], no matter their personnalities. Some nobles should naturally be very ambitious, and most have some ambitions, but personnality types who just want to be quiet, have time to administrate their own lands or fulfill non-power related goals, should also exist. I'd like to see even some competent guys you'd have difficulties to convince to accept higher positions as for example they are too humble and religion focused for that.
 
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I very much enjoyed reading this DD (very well written, Wokeg, gj! Although the amount of people who found the court chaplain mechanics so confusing is kinda amusing, not to offend anyone ;D ) and, more importantly, am very pleased with its contents. The game really shapes up nicely, from what I've seen so far.

I do have some issues however, especially with the councillors images (they can't really be called 'portraits' anymore, can they). The greatest concern for me is that OTT spymaster pose and expression. I hope it's just a result of a certain set of traits that this particular character has and not a default look for every spymaster in the world, I definitely wouldn't hire someone excercising the kind of look that would immediately implicate them at first glance as my spymaster...

The chancellor looks great... except for the document. At first i thought that he was holding it with the text facing down (I mean sure, education could be a problem in the dark ages, and given the hook and secret system he might've been trying to hide he can't read - but at least look at the right side, dammit!). Then I noticed how the text is formatted and it implies that it's the ink that kinda shows on the other side of the document. I'm no expert in the matter at all, but didn't they had their paper rather thick back then?...

Lastly, the steward. I would expect my hard working, honest steward to be buried in books and ledgers rather than in my treasury, juggling a bag of coins and staring to the side absently while I talk to him... Um, y-ya know, you do you, I just remembered a matter I have with the spymaster to discuss... [recalls the spymaster grinning evilly to his dagger] Oh.

No issue with the marshall, oddly enough ‍♂️ Of course these are minor issues and it's still WIP but I do hope this will get looked on during one quality pass or the other. Afterall, this game is supposed to be slightly more serious than CK2, IIRC, and having characters that look like this spymaster doesn't help with that IMO.

The final thing I wanna touch regarding characters is that people are asking if the charatcers in the images we get are going to be animated - like, if not then what's the point of making 3D models? It would actually be crazy to me if it turned out that the devs devoted resources into creating the framework for the engine to show these 3D models and systems that procedurally generate them and then make them be just parts of entirely static images. Now, I don't expect anything excessive but some minor 'idle' movements and body language of reacting to players actions/words, essentially a toned down version of leader interactions from Civ 6.

To finish things off, i'd like to draw your attention, fellow forumers, to one detail in the image of that powerful vassal - Feudal Obligations: Normal. Isnt't that a weird place to have this kind of info, next to every one of your vassals? Unless, of course, we can CHANGE it for each separately - which indeed means separate feudal contracs for every vassal, like it was implied in previous DD, I think. Is it perhaps one of the options we have in dealings with our Powerful Vassals (lower this ones taxes and/or levy to please them so they don't interfere with our policy making) while the pleb... I mean the regular vassals have to adhere to the general state laws? I would very much like that, ngl.

Oof, I rambled, sorry.
 
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Council position means power. In CK2 that does not mean much activity: a councillor gains some prestige or piety, has voting power and increased plot opportunity and plot power against her/his liege. Much more council politics could be a real challenge.
It would be great if a councillor can use her/his position for her/his own purpose or if (s)he has got a negative liege opinion (or very bad personality traits) even against the liege's aims (which means treason, of course). I mean a Chancellor can improve her/his relation with the target instead of you or can leave you after finding a better employer; a Steward can pocket some extra money making the populace mad at you; a Spymaster can accuse somebody plotting against you who are actually her/his rival (or use the Secrets (s)he discovered for her/his own purpose), a landed Marshal can invite to her/his army your excellent unlanded commanders, a Court chaplain can save her/his secret community instead of hunting them; any landed councillor studying technology can keep some tech points for themselves etc.
They could be more emphasis on their personality trait (a Craven Marshal can ruin your army's Morale; a Cynical Chaplain may anger other Zealous clergymen; a Kind Steward may lower your tax income; an Honest Chancellor may refuse certain jobs to do which a Deceitful one happily execute; a Lunatic and Paranoid Spymaster may run amok in your realm etc.)
They can use their Hooks to secure their council position by you with a little blackmailing.
If they are very good at their job (especially if they are powerful vassals) they can have more demands which could be more frequent after some well-done jobs (get a minor title for themselves or for some favoured relatives, friends or lovers; gain a fine decoration or some extra money reward; arrange a marriage with somebody from your dynasty; banish her/his rival from your court; ask the guardianship for your heir; release somebody they love from your prison etc.)
They could be more active in succession politics: supporting one of your could-be heirs in exchange for the promise of more power, gold or land (actually selling her/his votes).
The councillors can fight each other in the council (forcing you to take a side) or make strong alliances against you (firing one of them will lead the resignation of the other).
 
Spouses: in the medieval age, when a spouse is chosen from a great dynasty (s)he doesn't arrive alone. They have their own (wo)men from their own court (ladies, doctors, jesters and knights). They are likely to have the same culture and religion. The spouse could be busy placing them into position. That could anger your powerful vassals especially with cultural or religional differences.
A great example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gertrude_of_Merania
 
The chancellor looks great... except for the document. At first i thought that he was holding it with the text facing down (I mean sure, education could be a problem in the dark ages, and given the hook and secret system he might've been trying to hide he can't read - but at least look at the right side, dammit!). Then I noticed how the text is formatted and it implies that it's the ink that kinda shows on the other side of the document. I'm no expert in the matter at all, but didn't they had their paper rather thick back then?...
Well I would not call 1066 for a dark age and Everything I know is that the elite was expected to be very well educated and competent at what they was supposed to be doing. Commanders, rulers and so on was educated since childhood to learn their trade so incompetence would likely be an exception rather than norm.
 
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It's like they're taking all of the best parts of CKII and making them better, while cutting stuff that didn't really work. I like the new system with bishops and "powerful vassals", as it seems like a good way to keep feudal management relevant without making running a large realm require excessive micromanagement of minor nobles. Legitimately hyped for this.
 
Maybe it was accidental, but has anyone else noticed?
The councillors shown in the picture are Germans from the HRE. Who's the spymaster that hates his liege? The duke of Milan.

Sneaky Italians are plotting a league or something! Just zoom on his face, stare at him in the eyes, and tell me the Italian cities are not plotting against the HRE!
 
I love that some people (in previous DD) used to complain the portraits were too caroonish and now someone is complaining they're too dark... Might be an indicator that Paradox reached a good middle ground?
Different issues. The characters seen so far do seem to be somewhat of an improvement over the dead-eyed clay dolls of our first look at CK3. But the whole presentation is very much dark, from backgrounds to UI to icons.
 
Different issues. The characters seen so far do seem to be somewhat of an improvement over the dead-eyed clay dolls of our first look at CK3. But the whole presentation is very much dark, from backgrounds to UI to icons.
They probably have a few improvements to go. at least the color looks somewhat better. Could be just a little less washed-out looking...
 
picture here
You can do that. Half-swording (gripping the blade for more force and control) was very common. Especially in the late middle ages to deal with plate armor. Some words also weren't as sharp on the lower end.

Still a bit of a weird pose when you could just grab the hilt. And the hand modeling isn't done well here
 
Because it is relative?
Yes, I realize that. If a 340 levy Duke is considered powerful - whereas a Duke in 1066 CK2 usually has a levy over 1k - then either this King/Emporer is pretty weak, or the game has scaled down army sizes, which is the actually thing I'm pointing out :p
 
Maybe it was accidental, but has anyone else noticed?
The councillors shown in the picture are Germans from the HRE. Who's the spymaster that hates his liege? The duke of Milan.

Sneaky Italians are plotting a league or something! Just zoom on his face, stare at him in the eyes, and tell me the Italian cities are not plotting against the HRE!
We promise not to do anything to the Emperor, we're absolutely not planning anything. :rolleyes: