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CK3 Dev Diary #08 - Courts, Guests, and Wanderers

Hello everyone!

To most of you I’m a new “face”, so let me introduce myself. I was a Content Designer on CK2 for Reaper’s Due, Monks & Mystics and Jade Dragon, where my most important contribution was essential cat content (yes, I also wrote the Spymaster Mittens event chain, and yes, the cat portrait in CK2’s animal kingdom is based on my real-life furbaby). Since JD, I’ve been on the excellent CK3 team and we can’t wait for you to see everything we’ve worked on! Sadly, I don’t have any cat news for you today, but I have something that is nearly as exciting: the Court, Guests, and Wanderers.

The courts of CK3 are very similar to those in CK2. The Court consists of your landless subjects, such as some of your Family, Knights, and Councillors. However, you will generally have fewer Courtiers than in CK2. Courtiers who don’t have any duties or other reasons for staying will eventually decide to leave in pursuit of other opportunities. Fear not – they will let you know before they go. Courtiers leaving might feel like a bad thing, but I promise, it’s actually a part of a really neat feature (more on that further down). In addition to enabling the neat feature, this also means your remaining Courtiers will be more relevant to you than before. No more random strangers at the dinner table!

court_01.jpg


Your Court will still be a bustling place, full of new acquaintances. In addition to the Courtiers, the core members of your court, you will also have Guests paying you visits. These individuals will interact with your Courtiers and appear in events. Guests stay for a few years before they leave. If you want a Guest to stick around, you can recruit them. Just remember to give them a reason to stay! Giving them a spot on the council or a shiny title never fails, but seducing them also does the trick.

court_03.jpg


Guests look for opportunities and will be more likely to visit if they think you might recruit them. For example, Claimants will seek you out if you are strong enough to press their Claims, and suitors might appear if you or your adult children are unmarried. The interface will give you a handy overview to easily identify Guests with special Skills, Traits and Claims. You also have some influence over the type of Guests you attract. There are Invitation Decisions you can take to increase the chance of having good Knights and Claimants visiting, and there is a Dynasty Perk to increase the likelihood of useful Guests.

court_02.jpg


But where do all these Guests come from? You see, when a mommy and a daddy love each other very much… Oh, you meant “where are they before they appear in my court”? Well, characters without a permanent home wander around on the map, and visit Courts along the way. This is where characters leaving your court comes in - they will become Wanderers! For example, a son or daughter who is too far down in the line of succession to inherit might become a Wanderer to find a new Liege to press their Claims. Characters might also find themselves on the road by being banished or losing all their land.

All of this means that your guests often have interesting backstories. Many of them have families and relationships, and they keep developing during their journeys. If you check in on a family member who is out wandering, you might find that they have married or picked up some new skills (or a juicy secret…) since they left your Court. Perhaps they’ve even become a Mercenary Captain or the head of a Holy Order!

In the world of CK3, your ruler is the main character, but it is our hope that courtiers, guests, and wanderers will become a great supporting cast. I’m looking forward to hearing about all the little subplots you will discover.

That is all for this Development Diary my friends. Take care and we’ll see you in 2020!
 
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Spot on! A wanderer that has traveled the Silk Road would have a story or two to tell and would make good company at court. Perhaps also some diplomatic traits due to language skills and knowledge of foreign customs
Maybe the devs could even bring Marco Polo back...
 
Will courtiers also represent landed nobility within a realm that doesn't necessarily hold a title or a title that exists in-game (i.e. people who definitely has a reason to stay)? We surely need more internal politics than we got in CK2. Bureaucratic nobility if you will.

This seems to be exactly what is being removed.
 
Also player characters?
If you are banished it is pretty much game over since you must hold land. If you are somewhat more lucky the ai will keep you imprisoned for Life and not accept a ransom which can mean spending decades being not able to do much but it is atleast not game over.

Ironically the ai would be more merciful to the player if it simply execute the player character Assuming your have an heir but that would not be merciful to the character.
 
Well dynasties are coming more alive. The vassals are coming more alive. The spouse, counselors, and courts are coming more alive. Looks like there's going to be some interesting and fun gameplay in simply the day to day rulership as opposed to resorting to map painting for something to do.

I dare say it's going to take me a long time to get to 1453.
 
"Forcing" is changing the subject. The CK2 buttons are called "Arrange marriage" and "Arrange betrothal". And there's plenty of historical precedent for feudal lords arranging marriages for their courtiers.

The clearest examplar I can think of is the "'best knight that ever lived'", William Marshall, who made his name as a courtier. Henry II "gave William the large royal estate of Cartmel in Cumbria, and the keeping of Heloise, the heiress of the northern barony of Lancaster. It may be that the king expected him to take the opportunity to marry her and become a northern baron, but William seems to have had grander ambitions for his marriage. ... Henry therefore promised him the marriage and lands of Dionisia, lady of Châteauroux in Berry." This marriage also fell through, but Henry "promised the Marshal the hand and estates of Isabel de Clare (c.1172–1220), but had not completed the arrangements [before his death]. King Richard however, confirmed the offer and so in August 1189, at the age of 43, the Marshal married the 17-year-old daughter of Richard de Clare (Strongbow)."

Another helpful example involves Marshall's daughter-in-law, Margaret de Quincy, who "has been described as 'one of the two towering female figures of the mid-13th century'". While de Quincy's own marriages were arranged by the relevant families, "Margaret and her husband paid King Henry the large sum of 5,000 pounds to obtain his agreement to the marriage of their daughter Maud to Richard de Clare, 6th Earl of Hertford, 2nd Earl of Gloucester." Even though the Marshall-de Quincy power couple had some of the largest estates in the British Isles, they still needed to bribe Henry to arrange the marriage because young de Clare was a royal ward (and therefore a courtier for the purposes of CK2). This deal is exactly replicated by the CK2 mechanic of buying a Favour and then 'forcing' acceptance of an Arrange Marriage proposal.

Quotations are from the relevant Wikipedia articles (CC-BY-SA). The Marshall epitaph is attributed there to Stephen Langton; the de Quincy epitaph is attributed to L.E.Mitchell Portraits of Medieval Women (2003).
Maybe there could also be something along the lines of lords intervening in their courtiers romantic lives beyond marriage? Some ideas:
  • Courtier X get caught having an affair with courtier Z's wife. The lord can decide to banish courtier X, blackmail courtier X, etc.
  • Courtier X gets courtier Y pregnant. The lord can force courtier X to marry courtier Y, make courtier X acknowledge the child, etc.
  • Courtier X loves courtier Y, and asks his lord, who is a famous poet, for help in exchange for owing a Favor.
 
Thanks for the Dev diary. Personally I like the changes, and in general I want the court itself to play a larger part in the game.

What I've been hoping for, but it appears to not be happening, is a more radical change to the visual representation of the court. It would be so much more immersive to see an actual court, with all the characters together, rather than just a list of such characters like it was in CK2 and like it appears to be here as well. Of course, I care much more about mechanics than I do about "visual fluff", but I feel that for a Crusader Kings game, a vivid and thematic representation of the court is as important as a vivid representation of Europe in the form of a map that we've come to expect in such games. Perhaps this is something that could come as part of a DLC, but I hope that it's something that the CK3 team at least considers doing, and eventually, even if not with any priority.
 
i wonder if we are going to get gypsies culture group as wanderers

I wouldn't count on it, given that wanderers don't represent a migratory lifestyle in the classic sense, but rather members of the nobility looking for employment in medieval courts, which is a milieu the Roma generally did not have access to.
 
About the interface, I hope you are considering other options than all these empty spaces and resumes (and big buttons for things you have no reason to click more than one time per character lifetime, which would find a more logical place in right click portrait menu).

I mean (for people not playing on mobile phone) there's room to directly put traits and attributes in the lists, instead of forcing to click portraits to have the details. And ideally make the court (and all other) character list sortable by anything, from age to attributes or traits, which is unlikely when things aren't even on this screen.
It's something that always puzzled me in CK2 by the way, while there was a good sortable list interface for marriage candidates a different and far less practical model was used for courts and vassals for no understandable reason.

The text resume may be a cool option for players discovering their court (let's see the most notable thing about each character) with nothing in mind, but if, say, I'm searching someone with non-awful intendance to replace my steward, I'm not interested in knowing if Akutla is an experienced diplomat or has a claim on unnamed county, but if he has more than 6 stewardship.
 
Why is there not a symbol that a character has a claim like in CK2?
 
Thanks for the Dev diary. Personally I like the changes, and in general I want the court itself to play a larger part in the game.

What I've been hoping for, but it appears to not be happening, is a more radical change to the visual representation of the court. It would be so much more immersive to see an actual court, with all the characters together, rather than just a list of such characters like it was in CK2 and like it appears to be here as well. Of course, I care much more about mechanics than I do about "visual fluff", but I feel that for a Crusader Kings game, a vivid and thematic representation of the court is as important as a vivid representation of Europe in the form of a map that we've come to expect in such games. Perhaps this is something that could come as part of a DLC, but I hope that it's something that the CK3 team at least considers doing, and eventually, even if not with any priority.
Well we have already seen that Events and decisions now have an Avatar of the associated characters standing in a location. I could imagine that on occasions where you interact with your court other courtiers are standing "in the background".
That would certainly help to sell their presence.
 
Thanks for the Dev diary. Personally I like the changes, and in general I want the court itself to play a larger part in the game.

What I've been hoping for, but it appears to not be happening, is a more radical change to the visual representation of the court. It would be so much more immersive to see an actual court, with all the characters together, rather than just a list of such characters like it was in CK2 and like it appears to be here as well. Of course, I care much more about mechanics than I do about "visual fluff", but I feel that for a Crusader Kings game, a vivid and thematic representation of the court is as important as a vivid representation of Europe in the form of a map that we've come to expect in such games. Perhaps this is something that could come as part of a DLC, but I hope that it's something that the CK3 team at least considers doing, and eventually, even if not with any priority.

I agree with this. One hope I had for CK3 was that there was an actual room with you sitting on a throne and all your courtiers standing around. Click on a courtier to interact with them, instead of just choosing their name from a list. I hope something like that can be implemented at some point. With the 3D models of characters for events, that actually seems incredibly possible.
In general, I like the mechanics of everything I've read thus far. Just the UI could do to be a bit more presentable.
 
When guests leave, will they warn you first and give you a chance to talk them out of it like in Animal Crossing?
Wanderers will not visits courts if the ruler's faith is hostile to their faith. Wouldn't be a fun visit!
Seems like the Sympathy for religion trait might be more useful now for getting diverse wanderers?
 
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If my character has a mentally challenged adult son/nephew in his court and my character doesn't give this guy an important job, will he leave the court and become a wanderer?
I don't really want to see my relatives being killed off or "disappearing without trace" after several attempts to find place in another courts.

Though, on the other hand, it would be interesting to have some kind of custody/guardianship system for your relatives, who have serious mental issues, so you pay some money each month and have some events, but your relative stays as your courtier and you keep being responsible for him/her.
 
Will be possible to send somebody direct to another court? As a spy, an Agent or charged to do something.
The receiver ruler should have the right to decide to let somebody stay or not, of course.
 
Pretty sure dismiss would just send them to the wanderer pool in someone else court.
Which makes me ask: I was always somewhat unhappy with the unpredictability (and sometimes absurdity) with which a courtier I "asked to leave court" moved away.
For instance, more than once I expected courtier A to reach his brother / parent / relative B in the court where B was*, and instead courtier A ended in some completely unrelated, reasonless, and apparently random court X. Very immersive-breaking, frustrating and silly.
What criteria, if any, will CK3 have to avoid this, and to send wanderers to more "logical" courts? Thanx.

*: which, BTW, could add strategic depth, if I manage to send a high-martial courtier (but not high enough to be my marshal / commander) to my vassal's court who's in need of a high-martial character.
"Look, Sir HeavyFist's brother is in my vassal's court! Surely he will reach his brother and BANG, my vassal has his so-needed marshal!"
And of course the bastard ends half a world away, in the middle of nowhere, without any reason.
Quite upsetting! :mad::D
 
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