CK3 Dev Diary #09 - Lifestyles

[Denkt]

Remember that Lifestyles are not the only thing that make characters unique, we have traits as Another aspect and there may be more stuff as well

 

[LordofLight]

We are also confirming there will be no Immortality in Crusader Kings III

But will there be immortality in the sense of someone editing a save and adding immortal=16 to a character as it is in CK2, and as I remember before the trait was even a thing.

Since I'd imagine that would be quite useful for modding fantasy worlds.

 

[donkeysaint]

Will the Martial Lifestyle also influence your characters personal fighting abilities, and perhaps his/her physical shape? The short description conspicuously leaves that out.

 

[Karlingid]

@rageair

This here is my best attempt.

Orange: This could also represent a replacement for the Administrator trait, either the book or the money, but it would not be my first guess for either

Red: This could be Born in the Purple or otherwise related to the Byzantine imperial family, or something about the family management mechanics we've read about

Pink: No idea. Looks like a soldier being paid, so a mercenary or a settled adventurer maybe? A special trait for hiring enough mercenaries that you get some sort of a bonus or discount or something?

The one eye might be a glass eye or it might be "one-eyed". The knife and the note probably relates to blackmail, either for the person with the dirt, the person with the secret that you're blackmailing, or someone who has enough experience with it to get a special trait for it. It's also the default intrigue icon for CK2, but the blackmail seems to be the biggest new development for intrigue and the letter helps to seal this guess. The bloodied knife, rag, and what looks like it might be ashes or gunpowder might represent different methods of murder - the stabbing in the bed, asphyxiation, and the inn blowing up. Whether an alchemist trait exists separately from the mystic (who used to have a smoking lamp) I can't say, but it's probably one of those two. "August" is a guess since we kinda got a preview of that one, but it might also relate broadly to a superior ruler in the same sense administrator used to, but now with a different connotation.

I also don't know the exact names of each trait. They're just guesses based on what we used to have, and what the themes of each seem to be.

 

[gummy95]

Will the Martial Lifestyle also influence your characters personal fighting abilities, and perhaps his/her physical shape? The short description conspicuously leaves that out.

https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.c...69deb32ca70b5f5716bb98c6e0c687f.1920x1080.jpg

 

[gummy95]

@rageair

View attachment 539204

This here is my best attempt.

Orange: This could also represent a replacement for the Administrator trait, either the book or the money, but it would not be my first guess for either

Red: This could be Born in the Purple or otherwise related to the Byzantine imperial family, or something about the family management mechanics we've read about

Pink: No idea. Looks like a soldier being paid, so a mercenary or a settled adventurer maybe? A special trait for hiring enough mercenaries that you get some sort of a bonus or discount or something?

The one eye might be a glass eye or it might be "one-eyed". The knife and the note probably relates to blackmail, either for the person with the dirt, the person with the secret that you're blackmailing, or someone who has enough experience with it to get a special trait for it. It's also the default intrigue icon for CK2, but the blackmail seems to be the biggest new development for intrigue and the letter helps to seal this guess. The bloodied knife, rag, and what looks like it might be ashes or gunpowder might represent different methods of murder - the stabbing in the bed, asphyxiation, and the inn blowing up. Whether an alchemist trait exists separately from the mystic (who used to have a smoking lamp) I can't say, but it's probably one of those two. "August" is a guess since we kinda got a preview of that one, but it might also relate broadly to a superior ruler in the same sense administrator used to, but now with a different connotation.

I also don't know the exact names of each trait. They're just guesses based on what we used to have, and what the themes of each seem to be.

Pink looks like some form of chivalrous to me, like a knight helping a lady down from carriage

 

[Karlingid]

Pink looks like some form of chivalrous to me, like a knight helping a lady down from carriage

That's a really good observation! Better than what I came up with, anyway. I just saw it as a hand and a gauntlet but wondered why there was no money being given, but it being a "Chivalrous" trait makes a lot of sense.

 

[Denkt]

Will the Martial Lifestyle also influence your characters personal fighting abilities, and perhaps his/her physical shape? The short description conspicuously leaves that out.

Very likely it will since one of the focuses in the material Lifestyle give prowess which seems to be the same things as combat ability in CK2

 

[CrisH7]

Sometimes it’s worth playing the hand you’re dealt - perhaps going along with your lustful heir's seductive tendencies could open up a venue you hadn’t even considered?

Loving that eggcorn!

I can't wait for this game to come out...there's that quote "What is drama but life with the dull bits cut out?" Well I'm waiting for the drama of CK3.

 

[Seimour]

many famous expansionist were also good administrators, think Basil II, or Charlemagne, as both managed to both expand and leave a well-administered state, with full treasuries, .

Not to be overtly pedantic but Carolingian administration, especially that left by Charlemagne, was a joke. It certainly was not a well administrated state and the financial situation was not good when he died. The very fact that Charlemagne expanded so wantonly everywhere without any administrative apparatus to handle the new conquests prevented any effective imperial administration to begin with. A man who neither knew how to read nor write seems like the antithesis of good administration to me.

 

[Frigabus]

There’s one more potential Focus which could be represented: the Artist (under Learning Lifestyle?). I know that most medieval ruler never wanted to be an artist because artists are considered to be artisans and crafts were without dignity for those ruling the world. But the same is true of Medicine.

There was only one field on which a ruler might excel in: writing. Writing songs, poems and hymns was quite normal, especially in the Near and Far East.

An Artist could:

· write a love poem to seduce someone
· compose a heroic song to raise an army’s morale
· write a speech praising your liege’s virtues to raise his/her opinion of you
· paint a picture of a victorious battle to increase his/her House/Dynasty Prestige
· write a mocking poem to run your rival’s Prestige
· make a wondrous sculpture to attract Guests with artistic interest
· write a hymn to strengthen your religion and please religious authorities
· paint a fresco in a church which angers the Pope and promotes the spread of heresies
· write a simple prayer in your language which helps to convert your people to the true faith and gives you Piety
· and the most important to give power to an Artist: make artifacts.

For making an Artifact 4 things are needed: (free) time, gold, technical skill and inspiration. If you have all of them you can make:

· make the crown you want to crown yourself with
· forge the sword you want to kill your rival with
· make a relic of the bones of your late father who was canonized
· make a fake Chinese artifact to sell it at a good price
· or a special necklace with valuable gems to attract a proud and beautiful (wo)man

 

[PDX-Nicou]

But will there be immortality in the sense of someone editing a save and adding immortal=16 to a character as it is in CK2, and as I remember before the trait was even a thing.

On another end, yes, you can mod a trait to enable immortality.

 

[Cardolam]

How many do you actually want to get inside one lifetime

With the only reference being what I consider how often the reward should appear, I'd say between 4 for weak characters to 10 to ubber characters.

 

[gummy95]

On another end, yes, you can mod a trait to enable immortality.

Are lifestyle traits something that might be packaged into future dlc packs?I

Say a dlc added Equestrian/Falconeer/Houndmaster lifestyles or something.

 

[PDX-Nicou]

Are lifestyle traits something that might be packaged into future dlc packs?I
Say a dlc added Equestrian/Falconeer/Houndmaster lifestyles or something.

I have nothing to share about possible DLCs, but eventually we could always add/remove/balance Lifestyles Traits.

 

[Denkt]

With the only reference being what I consider how often the reward should appear, I'd say between 4 for weak characters to 10 to ubber characters.

Given there are 9 perks in one Lifestyle, it would mean normal characters would not be able to even get one Lifestyle and the uber characters would get just one Lifestyle.

 

[Cardolam]

Given there are 9 perks in one Lifestyle, it would mean normal characters would not be able to even get one Lifestyle and the uber characters would get just one Lifestyle.

As I said, I only concerned about the number of times the reward should be given (among other things, because the psychiological impact of such reward lowers significantly with the increase in frequency) and more generically about balance in the design. I always abhorred mounty haul campaigns, instead being very parcimonious in the rewards given to the players. Over more than 30 years of game design, I found over the long run, it produces much better results.

But I don't have a problem about the ability of the player to seldom being able to finish an entire Lifestyle in a single life cycle. It actually rings true for me that finishing a single lifestyle should be a major reward in the context of an entire game itself, achievable only by one or two characters per complete run.

Finally, I don't know the entirety of the design (or even most of it) and in my ignorance I can only reserve my judgement for later. My original word was one of caution and concern, nothing more.

 

[Denkt]

As I said, I only concerned about the number of times the reward should be given (among other things, because the psychiological impact of such reward lowers significantly with the increase in frequency) and more generically about balance in the design. I always abhorred mounty haul campaigns, instead being very parcimonious in the rewards given to the players. Over more than 30 years of game design, I found over the long run, it produces much better results.

Perhaps, but I Always think my own suggestions are completely terrible since thats the best way to improve, or rather let other people improve on them. There is likely Always something that have been forgotten. Few perks would perhaps make them feel more rewarding but it would also increase the waiting time and perhaps limit what you can do with perks, given that they are tied to stuff like getting CBs and that like. Also few perks could actually make the characters more similar, since if each character get at most 4 perks instead of 20, there is going to be alot less possible combinations and it would pretty much impossible to multiclass.

But I don't have a problem about the ability of the player to seldom being able to finish an entire Lifestyle in a single life cycle. It actually rings true for me that finishing a single lifestyle should be a major reward in the context of an entire game itself, achievable only by one or two characters per complete run.

It take something like 20-25 years to finish just one Lifestyle which is already alot of time in my opinion.

Finally, I don't know the entirety of the design (or even most of it) and in my ignorance I can only reserve my judgement for later. My original word was one of caution and concern, nothing more.

Well it is better than the stuff I have posted, like:​

• https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...h-other-and-armies-should-carry-loot.1307746/​
• https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-wages-for-advisors-and-minor-titles.1307757/​
• https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/more-natural-attribute-growth.1307726/​

 

[Cardolam]

Few perks would perhaps make them feel more rewarding but it would also increase the waiting time and perhaps limit what you can do with perks, given that they are tied to stuff like getting CBs and that like.

If said stuff can be achieved by other means, I don't know where is the problem. In fact, I would suggest avoiding to provide unique rewards through perks as that tend to produce two kind of results: either they are mandatory, turning all characters the same, or they are avoided... turning all characters the same.

Also few perks could actually make the characters more similar, since if each character get at most 4 perks instead of 20, there is going to be alot less possible combinations and it would pretty much impossible to multiclass.

Your "at most" expression should refer to 10 perks and not 4, as that was what I suggested. The 4 perks you refer is what I suggested for a very weak character. And yes, with a very poor character you should have less palatable options.

Nothing would stop you to multiclass, unless I suggested 1 as the number of perks, which I didn't by a factor of 400% at the minimum. But comparing with your numbers (20 perks) you just had less options, turning your decision points more important and your rewards for achieving the perks more meaningful.

It take something like 20-25 years to finish just one Lifestyle which is already alot of time in my opinion.

This is just pulling numbers from the head and personal preference, be they your numbers or mine. For me I would say finishing a Lifestyle by itslef should be a major reward, well remembered within the context of the multiple characters one plays throught the campaign. Much more meaningful, much more balanced... in my opinion, of course.


But as said, my ignorance regarding this implementation precedes me so I will hold my judgement. I just stated my concerns. Based on the few words that were published and concerning my approach to design, I would give it a 66% chance of reviewing the rate of achievable perks in Dark Ages, when I have the opportunity to start modding CK3.

 

[Denkt]

If said stuff can be achieved by other means, I don't know where is the problem. In fact, I would suggest avoiding to provide unique rewards through perks as that tend to produce two kind of results: either they are mandatory, turning all characters the same, or they are avoided... turning all characters the same.

The vision clearly state that every major game mechanic will be based on the characters and I suspect all Lifestyles will come with some unique stuff and since you can't get them all it balance itself out. Also the game is ment to be a sandbox not some sort of competetive game around builds.

Your "at most" expression should refer to 10 perks and not 4, as that was what I suggested. The 4 perks you refer is what I suggested for a very weak character. And yes, with a very poor character you should have less palatable options.

Nothing would stop you to multiclass, unless I suggested 1 as the number of perks, which I didn't by a factor of 400% at the minimum. But comparing with your numbers (20 perks) you just had less options, turning your decision points more important and your rewards for achieving the perks more meaningful.

The amount of combinations you can make with 4 perks is alot less than the amount of combinations you can make with 20 perks which makes the characters less flexible and risk making them feel more the same. However perks is just one of things that build the character.

This is just pulling numbers from the head and personal preference, be they your numbers or mine. For me I would say finishing a Lifestyle by itslef should be a major reward, well remembered within the context of the multiple characters one plays throught the campaign. Much more meaningful, much more balanced... in my opinion, of course.

I think it already is, with around 20 years investment you will perhaps get 2-3 depending on how long your character lives and if you focus on getting the Lifestyle or simply do Little of Everything.