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CK3 Dev Diary #09 - Lifestyles

Greetings! Today we’ll be taking a look at a new and exciting feature in CK3 - the Lifestyle system!

Now, to start off, the lifestyles of CK3 have very little in common with those in CK2. The system has been changed and is vastly improved and much more interactive than CK2’s system. In fact, we have proper skill trees now, much like those you would find in an RPG. You will gather experience and unlock perks, which conveys all kinds of bonuses to your character! This allows you to tailor your character to your needs, immerse yourself in their story, and provides a lot of replayability, as it’s not only about what perks you get, but also when you get them.

There are five Lifestyle categories, with each category containing three full skill trees. You first choose the Lifestyle you want, and then you select a focus within it.

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The focuses convey immediate bonuses, much like they did in CK2 - you usually pick the Focus that provides the modifier you most need at the moment. For example, if you desperately need piety you can pick the Theology Focus, while if you have just conquered a large amount of land the Authority Focus might be more appropriate. You can pick any Focus within a Lifestyle to gain experience within it, the Focuses do not correspond to specific trees.

Each Focus also comes with its own unique set of events, connected to the theme of the Focus. If you have the Temptation focus selected you might get events about subtly manipulating your vassals and guests, finding out their secrets or gaining hooks, while if you have the Wealth focus selected it might see you levy extra taxes upon your peasants, among other things. More on this in the next weeks DD.

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After you’ve picked a Focus, you will start gaining experience and can start unlocking perks!

Now, characters will not usually live long enough to unlock every perk. You will have to choose which path to go down, and you will unlock a new perk every few years. Perks are unlocked by spending experience, which is gained both passively (symbolizing that your character dabbles in subjects pertaining to their lifestyle during their free time) and actively (through choices in Lifestyle events, etc).

Perks are wonderful things that unlock all manner of possibilities and opportunities. Going down the right paths will unlock special modifiers, decisions, casus bellis, and even schemes. Some perks will modify existing systems to work differently for your character - for example, going down the Avarice path makes Stress (more on this in a later DD) have some positive effects. There are perks that make your troops fight better, that make factions stay in line, or that fortify your health. Really, you’ll be spoilt for choice - and we’ll go into more detail on what each Lifestyle is capable of in the coming weeks!

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The final Perk in each tree always gives you a trait, which is very powerful (think the Master Seducer trait in CK2), nicely rounding them off. If you live long enough, you’ll see yourself accumulate a few of these.

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Can you guess the traits? 15 of these traits are tied to the Lifestyle trees, the remaining can be gained through special events and activities.

While you won’t start using Lifestyles and unlocking perks before you’re an adult, it really begins during childhood. Depending on the education you get, you will have an affinity for a certain Lifestyle - now this doesn’t mean that you’re stuck with that Lifestyle, of course, you can choose any lifestyle regardless of your education. The education ranks directly correspond to a percentage increase in experience gained, a rank one education will give a 10% bonus, and a rank four one a 40% bonus, and so on.

When a character becomes landed they will select a focus and unlock perks based on their age - the older they are, the more perks they will have unlocked. They will select an appropriate Lifestyle based on their education (making it even more important to manage your children’s education carefully), and perks based on their personality and traits. Do not worry though, if you’re not satisfied with the hand you’re dealt you can choose to reset all perks (within that Lifestyle) once per lifetime - though this will incur a massive amount of Stress (again, more on this in a later DD). Sometimes it’s worth playing the hand you’re dealt - perhaps going along with your lustful heir's seductive tendencies could open up a venue you hadn’t even considered?

In the next few weeks we’ll dive deeper into the various aspects of the Lifestyle system, so stay tuned!
 
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either they are mandatory, turning all characters the same, or they are avoided... turning all characters the same.
This rubs me the wrong way.

Why assume things based on a dev diary that purposefully doesn't even reveal everything there is (for obvious reasons)?

It's kind of pointless guessing how the game mechanics will function based on VERY limited information which is based on even more limited information. Which is all based on the fact that we played unhealthy amounts of CK2 (or at least I did... I didn't play any games but CK2 in 2019...). I'd honestly like to see how this works in practice before making any solid judgement on it. They want to make less traits but they have a greater effect, and seeing how it will take a very long time to get an entire tree or whatever fully unlocked that seems to be going towards that as well.

To make a very solid statement like "turning all characters the same" you'd need to have some very solid reasoning to back this up but you don't.

We even know traits and stuff will have a greater effect on characters (like greedy will make characters truly greedy apparently) so... yeah.
 
The vision clearly state that every major game mechanic will be based on the characters and I suspect all Lifestyles will come with some unique stuff and since you can't get them all it balance itself out. Also the game is ment to be a sandbox not some sort of competetive game around builds.

I can only heartily approve of all that!

The amount of combinations you can make with 4 perks is alot less than the amount of combinations you can make with 20 perks which makes the characters less flexible and risk making them feel more the same. However perks is just one of things that build the character.

Why would the maximization of combinations be a design objective, when, given a healthy number of combinations - at the very least in the large dozens - aspects such as the strength of the reward or the overall balance of the game should take the front seat?

I also stress you use my absolute minimum for your examples - 4 perks - going so far in the previous post as claiming it was the maximum. Its not that every character is a level one education waste with 4 - 4 - 4 - 4 - 4 stats. In fact they should be as rare as ubber characters and being in the fringes of the sample, not used as arguments in the discussion.

But again, let me stress I don't know about the whole implementation, not even most of it and I am totally ignorant of its dynamic with other parts of the whole design. As a rule of thumb though and in my aforementioned ignorance, I feel the amount of perks attainable are way too high.


I think it already is,

Well, if it already is rare to get an entire lifestyle tree in a character lifetime I can only applaud but in my ignorance of the system and just from what I read, it didn't seem to come out that way.

But again, this all boils down to a matter of taste and game design approach. Mine has always been strict and usually I get very satisfying results out of that, be they in tabletop games or in digital ones.
 
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But again, this all boils down to a matter of taste and game design approach. Mine has always been strict and usually I get very satisfying results out of that, be they in tabletop games or in digital ones.
Do you design games you want to play or design games other want to play?

Why would the maximization of combinations be a design objective, when, given a healthy number of combinations - at the very least in the large dozens - aspects such as the strength of the reward or the overall balance of the game should take the front seat?
There is about 150 perks, it would take between 300-450 years to get them all. There is two big drawbacks I feel with few perks, it make it feel more binary, going from nothing to a very big boost while more perks can be more gradual and it also make characters more similar with few big bonuses rather than fewer more spread out ones and give more flexibility since with more perks it is easier to pick from different livestyles.

But again, let me stress I don't know about the whole implementation, not even most of it and I am totally ignorant of its dynamic with other parts of the whole design. As a rule of thumb though and in my aforementioned ignorance, I feel the amount of perks attainable are way too high.
Since only 10 DDs have been posted it is rather hard to tell how the different system combines, but characters are the center of basically Everything.
 
Why assume things based on a dev diary that purposefully doesn't even reveal everything there is (for obvious reasons)?

It's kind of pointless guessing how the game mechanics will function based on VERY limited information which is based on even more limited information.

Which is all based on the fact that we played unhealthy amounts of CK2 (or at least I did... I didn't play any games but CK2 in 2019...). I'd honestly like to see how this works in practice before making any solid judgement on it.

Exactly what I mentioned aplenty in my posts, even going to the point of calling myself ignorant regarding the issue at hand.
However, I am entitled to have an opinion about what I read and from the gist of it, it seems to me there is the clear chance of going overboard in number of attainable perks.


To make a very solid statement like "turning all characters the same" you'd need to have some very solid reasoning to back this up but you don't.

That was not the center argument of the case I presented. Not even close.
It was the poster whom I was answering that introduced the concept of turning all characters the same and I just took advantage of it.

The crux of the matter of my argument is a high number of attainable perks devalue them from a psychological perspective for the player once he/she achieves them - so, soon the reward is just another "meh" moment - and might unbalance the game with too much power held by a single character.


We even know traits and stuff will have a greater effect on characters (like greedy will make characters truly greedy apparently) so... yeah.

Lets see what that will boil down to. I am not too enthusiastic about what that means when everything is considered. Regarding traits the aspect so far that I call excellent is the Stress mechanic. Brilliant, indeed.
 
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We have other stuff like technology which will also be based on characters from what I know, and there could be alot of other stuff so perks is not the only thing you will be rewarded with in this game:)
 
Do you design games you want to play or design games other want to play?

Well, over decades I played and modded many games... So, I design and mod for games that I want to play and with an approach that gives me satisfaction, that's for sure.
As for the other players and arriving at the (public) modding scene for CK2 very, very late - in February last year, after the last DLC was released - having attained more than 6000 players since then starting from nothing, I feel there is a significant number that enjoy my designs. And this is just covering Dark Ages, because I have been around for long with mods for very different games and different handles.

There is about 150 perks, it would take between 300-450 years to get them all. There is two big drawbacks I feel with few perks, it make it feel more binary, going from nothing to a very big boost while more perks can be more gradual and it also make characters more similar with few big bonuses rather than fewer more spread out ones and give more flexibility since with more perks it is easier to pick from different livestyles.

That is your taste and I can only respect that.
In the ignorance of the full design but from what I can gather from what I read, it is not my taste and the design could in my opinion be improved if the amount of attainable perks were smaller.


Since only 10 DDs have been posted it is rather hard to tell how the different system combines, but characters are the center of basically Everything.

Exactly and all that goes hand in hand with the ignorance I claimed since posting on this thread.
As for the characters being the center of everything I can only agree, that having nothing to do with the amount of perks they can realistically achieve.
 
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We have other stuff like technology which will also be based on characters from what I know, and there could be alot of other stuff so perks is not the only thing you will be rewarded with in this game:)

Absolutely. I can only applaud that.

Hopefully, the characters will not be showered in rewards from each implementation, turning said rewards meaningless in the end and wrecking the balance of the game.
 
That is your taste and I can only respect that.
In the ignorance of the full design but from what I can gather from what I read, it is not my taste and the design could in my opinion be improved if the amount of attainable perks were smaller.
I don't necessarily like the stuff I defend or talk about, I simply try to keep the discussion going since we could miss important things:)

I don't like the suggestions I post because I know they are bad, but by posting them here they can eventually become something better.
 
The crux of the matter of my argument is a high number of attainable perks devalue them from a psychological perspective for the player once he/she achieves them
I'll admit I prefer having a ton of traits for a character rather than a few so to me it's the opposite. Granted I also play... too much CK2 so maybe that effects how I view traits so who knows.

But then again I prefer a more granular approach to traits, and them being more like modifiers to personality. They're going for the opposite, but a lot of gain-able ones? Hard to say. I'll agree with the whole too many gainable traits, that are quite easy to gain.

I feel like its less of an issue with it being a lot of attainable traits so much as a lot of attainable traits that... you'll probably attain a lot if that makes sense? If you are a person who always goes down the route of conquest you're always going to go for the same few traits in the tree with every character. So you'll be grabbing the same traits over and over.

I think a ton of attainable traits is awesome. But having a tree means that you'll end up just going "well grabbing this trait again for the 500th time." while in CK2 the traits are gained randomly or through events. Which raises their value and makes it feel less like "time to grab trait x"

This makes me feel like the CK2 approach of choose a way of life then... wait for event... might be better in the long term than this but hey I didnt play ck3 yet to know. But I can sort of see it getting a bit stale and feeling a ton less immersive and gamey to grab perks after you played a lot. And boy do I play a lot. Im pretty sure I played maybe 3-4 other games since 2012 because ck2 is just the best RPG imho.

But that's just me.
 
With the only reference being what I consider how often the reward should appear, I'd say between 4 for weak characters to 10 to ubber characters.

The problem with a very low number of high impact rewards is you get a lack of ramping and a resultant “magic level gain” effect.

As for the question of parsimony vs monty haul, it really depends how well balanced the system is and how great the impact of individual traits are. None of this will be known until the game is released and the more expert loophole finders gets hold of it.
 
I was originally very concerned when I heard that you could reset your perks and stuff back when it was first brought up. But now that I know it's at the cost of stress, I'm much more comfortable with it. It seems the stress mechanic will prove to be quite useful and I'm looking forward to getting more details on it. I always felt like stress was pointless in CK2 so I'm glad it's being reworked to help with role playing and balancing mechanics.
 
The stress system itself sound like a game changer. In CK2 you could play as a kind character and murder alot of people which makes Little sense. In CK3 that would likely lead to alot of stress and thus a way to encourage/reward players for playing their character based on their traits:)
 
The stress system itself sound like a game changer. In CK2 you could play as a kind character and murder alot of people which makes Little sense. In CK3 that would likely lead to alot of stress and thus a way to encourage/reward players for playing their character based on their traits:)

For me, the concept of Stress is the greatest news I heard about CK3 so far... Extremely interesting in terms of gameplay and offering a lot of possibilities for modding, too.
 
It's an incredible challenge be responsible for making a follow-up game to CK2 but every dev update has me wowed by all the thoughtful work going into the character system. Making that system more robust by adding more RPG elements is wonderful.
 
Love this after a few weeks with no dd i needed this one. All the general information in dds is killing me though, i get that its early and there is alot to cover for us and the systems aren't fully balanced out yet, but i almost wish they'd just pick a topic and do all the dds on it so we can get into some of the meat. I feel like y'all are just teasing us at this point ;)