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CK3 Dev Diary #1 - Dynasties & Houses

Greetings, and welcome to the first CK3 Feature Dev Diary!

As this is the first DD we want it to be extra juicy, and showcase something that we’re excited about - namely what we’re doing with Dynasties! Dynasties are immaterial yet fundamentally important things that make Crusader Kings what it is - your line must follow an unbroken line of members from your Dynasty; if your Dynasty ends, so does your game.

Now, the representation of Dynasties in CK2 was limited. A character belonged to a Dynasty, and that was that - you got a minor opinion boost with characters that were of the same one, and nothing more. In CK3, we really want to emphasize the power that Dynasties held, and their impact on the medieval world! We want you as the player to feel a bond with your Dynasty, and care for it. To achieve this, we’ve done a multitude of things!

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Firstly something that we know will especially please CK2 players, we’ve redefined what a Dynasty actually is - not a monolithic entity, but a collection of Houses. No longer will Dynasties have just one name, one Coat of Arms, and one identity - instead several Houses (aka Cadet Branches!) will be collected under the umbrella that is the Dynasty, working together (theoretically…) towards bringing renown upon the Dynasty!

So, what is a House?
Each Dynasty will have a Founding House (usually of the same name as the Dynasty), which is the first House of that Dynasty. As the game progresses, ruling Dynasty members that are distant by blood to the current House Head (more on this below) may choose to create a Cadet Branch - effectively creating a new House under the Dynasty. Creating a Cadet Branch makes the character creating it House Head (with the most powerful House Head becoming Dynast), and by extension free from the direct influence of their old House Head.

Making your own Cadet Branch requires quite a bit of prestige, that you do not stand to inherit your House Head’s titles, and that all of your Dynastic ancestors are dead (your father can’t be alive, for example). Cadet Branches/Houses come with a lot of flavor: their own names, Coat of Arms and Mottos, usually inspired by the location in which they are founded, and the founding character. For example, if a ruler of the Jimena Dynasty would create a Cadet Branch in southern France, they might be called the Toulouse-Jimenas, and so on.

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Now, what is a House Head or a Dynast?
Within a House there is always a leader, a House Head, that wields power over the rest of the members. A House Head has the power to legitimize bastards, call House members to war, and demand that they adhere to their Faith (refusal to convert will result in them creating a new Cadet Branch). The House Head also has inherent leverage on all House members born after they were made head, by virtue of getting a Hook on them (more on Hooks in another DD). They also gain passive prestige based upon the number of members in their House. House leadership follows the succession of the House Head, so that if you’re the leader of your House you will most likely keep that title on succession.

The Dynast, on the other hand, wields significantly more power than a House Head - with their power encompassing the members of all Houses of the entire Dynasty! The Dynast is always the most powerful House Head of a Dynasty, with leadership being updated on the death of the old Dynast. In addition to everything the House Head can do, the Dynast can also Disinherit/Restore Inheritance, Denounce/Forgive members of the Dynasty (which affects opinion in a major way), personally Claim titles held by Dynasty members, and make Dynasty members end wars they have against each other. All of these powers work against every member of the Dynasty, not just the House they’re a part of. The Dynast also gains prestige for every living member of the Dynasty. Being the Dynast is very powerful indeed, but you have to carefully weigh the powers against other benefits, as they cost Renown.

So what is Renown?
Renown is a resource accumulated by a Dynasty, and is used for several things. Firstly, all renown earned by a Dynasty counts towards its Level of Splendor. The Level of Splendor is the outward perception of the Dynasty, how well it is perceived in the eyes of the world, and affects the prestige you get on birth, the prestige when marrying into it, and the maximum long reign opinion you can get. Having a high level also makes it much easier to arrange marriages, especially with Dynasties below your level. Regardless of if Renown is spent or not, the Level of Splendor won’t decrease. The higher your Dynasty’s Level of Splendor, the more impressive its Coat of Arms frame will look. Peasant Dynasties will start at a negative Splendor level, which means that you’ll actually lose prestige for marrying them.

Renown itself is a spendable currency, representing the clout your Dynasty holds over itself. Its use is twofold; firstly it can be used for the most powerful Dynast interactions (getting claims, disinheriting, etc.) and secondly for unlocking Dynasty Legacies (more on this below).

The way you get Renown encourages you to mimic a ‘playstyle’ that was common in reality, but that wasn’t very practical in CK2 - spreading your Dynasty far and wide! You will gain renown for every ruler of your Dynasty that isn’t a subject under another member of your Dynasty. This is based on tier, which means that a King will give more Renown than a Duke, and so on. Marrying in such a way that your Dynasty ends up on the throne of a foreign realm is therefore useful for other reasons than to just murder them until you inherit their lands. Having your Dynasty spread out will give you more Renown, and thus a more powerful Dynasty overall. For example, if you’re playing as the King of England you will NOT gain renown from your landed vassal brother, but you WILL gain renown from your Dynastic cousin ruling a Duchy in the Holy Roman Empire. You will also gain renown from marrying away your dynasty to be spouses of powerful rulers, symbolizing your newfound influence in their realms. This gives you a reason to carefully plan the marriages of your kinsmen, even if you are not in need of an alliance!

So, what are Dynasty Legacies?
We all know that the playing field in Crusader Kings is a very volatile one, you might be Emperor of the World as one character, while being reduced to Count of Norfolk as the next. Dynasty Legacies offer some permanence in this otherwise very wild world, in the form of modifiers and unlocks that affect every member of your Dynasty. Essentially, by using Renown you get to shape what your Dynasty is known for. There’s a myriad of Legacies to choose from, all divided into tracks with an appropriately thematic name, such as ‘Kin’, ‘Guile’ or ‘Blood’. These aim to represent notions the world had (or has) about certain dynasties, i.e., that the Seljuks are warriors, the Abbasids lawmakers, the Habsburgs diplomats (and, ahem, prone to marrying their own kin), etc. Each Legacy track contains five unlocks, each costing a progressively higher amount of Renown to unlock.

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In this Dev Diary we will go into details on one of these tracks, “Blood” (which also happens to be my favorite). This track is designed for those of you who enjoy breeding traits into your family line, with the first few unlocks all focusing on increasing the chance of inheritance, emergence, and reinforcement of genetic traits (more on genetic traits in another DD). The last few unlocks will reduce the chance of negative traits appearing (essentially allowing for more.. ‘risky’ marriages), give you the chance to choose a genetic trait to be more common among your kin (i.e. beautiful, intelligent and strong… but also giant or dwarf. No matter how much I pleaded with art I couldn’t get a ‘Habsburg chin’ trait, though!), and finally rounding off with an increase to your Dynasty members Life Expectancy (which increases both their average age, and average fertility - this even means that women of your dynasty remain able to bear children for longer!).

Legacies take a long time to unlock, and you will have to work hard toward unlocking even one full track - though their power more than makes up for the wait. Legacies are chosen and unlocked by the Dynast, so make sure that you’re in control of your Dynasty.

That’s all for this time! We won’t spoil any more of the Legacy tracks for now, but rest assured that they all offer very interesting opportunities for you to shape your dynasty as you would like it! Next up we have a sneak preview of the map, stay tuned for the next DD.
 
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While I don't like the concept of "spend renown, get genius kids all over the place", it mostly depends on how strong the effect is.
So I'd be fine if the normal probabilities are 1% at birth (and 15% when parent has the trait too, as in CK2) and the dynasty perk changes it to like 3% at birth and 20% when parent has the trait too).
That would be small enough such that your dynasty does not only consist of geniuses and large enough that you would go for it (simply because there is no other way to increase this chance, thus even a small modifier is worth it).
Also, in my opinion higher inheritance chances for physical traits (tall, hair color, appearance etc.) are fine, since that's realistic. However the same does not apply for intelligence (so the 15% would have to go as well, but I have to admit that it's more fun that way).
 
I mean, in CK2 one guy gets to be a glorious Knight, and suddenly your entire dynasty becomes a dynasty of chivalrous knights and even unlocks new mechanics. CK2 with its Bloodline mechanic really did not handle this that much better.
It did have some foibles. Everyone remembers how newborn babies can become better duelers than middle aged men because grandpa got the right bloodline. But I guess grandpa earning that bloodline by acting like a warrior is what feels more "right" to me: dynastic reputation and outcomes based on your actions, rather than accumulating points and arbitrarily selecting an attractive perk.

It's not enough for me to doomsay the game and say it's ruined forever. After all, devs are saying it will merely nudge probable outcomes. It's just a thing that makes me pause and think in terms of games and mechanics instead of the roleplay. I'm sure I'll still enjoy it, overall.
 
Renown sounds like prestige and piety from CK2 but for your dynasty instead of character.

The difference is that pretige and piety were tied to a character and governed largely just what actions that character could take. They were more or less measure of 'good will' and allowed a character to use his political, social, or whatever influence to effect some outcome. Not make his unborn great great grandson and cousin better readers overnight.

I mean, in CK2 one guy gets to be a glorious Knight, and suddenly your entire dynasty becomes a dynasty of chivalrous knights and even unlocks new mechanics. CK2 with its Bloodline mechanic really did not handle this that much better.

It does feel more organic in CK2 though. In CK3 it seems like one guy is a glorious knight, but he chooses perks such as lawmaking that are almost contrary to this. That's the problem with mana -- oh you spent bird mana on integrating a vassal so now you can't upgrade your ships. The actio

It would be better if as a dynast or house head that each path had its own 'points' so that, for example, if one dynast preferred that members undergo a martial education or followed a martial path in 'Way of Life' you'd accumulate some of these points just from having members or perhaps winning battles and leading armies and so naturally your dynasty would become more martial by trying to enforce this path on members. A new Dynast might prefer something different and so a dynasty would become in essence renowned for different deeds by different members rather than just accumulating dynasty mana and clicking the next unlock on whatever path you started on. It would also allow a character to go against dynasty wishes (with some appropriate penalty) and forge his own path -- perhaps even influencing how the dynasty is perceived through the ages due to his great deeds in doing so. It would certainly alleviate the feeling of 'oh crap, I'm not the dynast and the AI is gonna pick something stupid'.
 
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Really interesting.

so, there is any way to lose Splendor?
I would hope so. Seeing declining great houses sounds awesome (like the Abbasids and Karlings after their glory days)
 
@PDX-Nicou it would be handy if you get that dev badge so we can also have your responses when filtering the thread by "Show only Dev responses" ;)
 
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I think concerns about the power creep of dynasty traits (err... legacies) is valid, but keep in mind that:

1. CK3 will probably not start with all of the other power creep CK2 has now (buying swords, getting artifacts from china, crafting a +50 dueling skill pistol, min-maxing focuses)
2. We're assuming that traits like Genius/Quick in CK3 are as strong as in CK2, something that has yet to be seen. They could easily be scaled down.
3. Even if it is power creep, power creep that centers around the main focus of the game (breeding and managing a large dynasty) is always going to be better than power creep because you had a lot of gold to waste or know how to navigate certain events.
4. Every perk will be a double-edged sword if your large extended family is sufficiently willing to fight against you.

It would be nice if each legacy had some kind of requirement for the head to fulfill before picking it. Doesn't make sense that a drooling retard could decide to give his dynasty Genius or a Weak character could give them Strong.
 
It does feel more organic in CK2 though. In CK3 it seems like one guy is a glorious knight, but he chooses perks such as lawmaking that are almost contrary to this. That's the problem with mana -- oh you spent bird mana on integrating a vassal so now your ships are worse.
This is a lot more useful a statement than "Mana!"

While I can partially agree with this, it is also supposed to reflect several generations worth of development. And it sounds like it serves to make your dynastic traits a little less random - which means getting it randomly would be really strange... As for the effect of using it to generate claims, it reflects internal strife in your house - so it should cost the dynasty something...
 
Don't know if someone already asked, will the coats of arms be created procedurally for IA too? And will there be an evolution of the coats based upon marriage bond/titles possessed? Like the Dynasti of the founder of an Empire have an imperial eagle on the coats when founding it?
 
It did have some foibles. Everyone remembers how newborn babies can become better duelers than middle aged men because grandpa got the right bloodline. But I guess grandpa earning that bloodline by acting like a warrior is what feels more "right" to me: dynastic reputation and outcomes based on your actions, rather than accumulating points and arbitrarily selecting an attractive perk.

It's not enough for me to doomsay the game and say it's ruined forever. After all, devs are saying it will merely nudge probable outcomes. It's just a thing that makes me pause and think in terms of games and mechanics instead of the roleplay. I'm sure I'll still enjoy it, overall.

I look at this in a different way: if you progress Erudite for instance, your Dynastic head starts promoting ideas of learning to the rest of the Dynasty, and demands that they focus more on it. If the Dynast chooses to progress War Legacy, he will promote warfare through the Dynasty and the dynasty will live a more warlike lifestyle.

Having a great warrior for an ancestor does not mean that the entire dynasty should suddenly want to live by his example. Maybe they believe that he carved the way for a more diplomatic future?

It does feel more organic in CK2 though. In CK3 it seems like one guy is a glorious knight, but he chooses perks such as lawmaking that are almost contrary to this. That's the problem with mana -- oh you spent bird mana on integrating a vassal so now you can't upgrade your ships.

Being a glorious knight does not mean that he reveres that lifestyle or wants everyone to live by it. AI will, if I understood it correctly, base the decisions of the Dynast's traits and preferences so a bloodthirsty glorious knight will promote a warlike lifestyle, while a Kind and Patient glorious Knight might use his renown to instead promote a diplomatic lifestyle to his descendants. Or a Diplomacy-savy King, filled with Wroth and Cruelty, who earned a lot of renown may use his charisma to spread violent sentiments across his dynasty. So if AI bases its choice on its traits, it is organic.
An RP-oriented player will do the same: he will base the chosen Legacy by what makes sense for him.

There is a huge difference between Legacy and Imitating.

why are people "disagreeing" with this? do they claim he got first once before?

In this case, Disagree is used as a downvote. Many people are disgusted by those who post "FIRST!!11!"
 
Thursday just become my favourite day of the week.
 
@rageair - a superb dev diary with excellent details, but one correction - the Capetian dynasty was founded by Hugh Capet when he became king of France in 987, not by King Robert I of France, who was a Robertian (as was his brother King Odo).

That aside, it's wonderful to hear that you've implemented such a system and I'm really happy the Robertians will be in game. I hope you've made a nice coat of arms for them!
 
though i am extremely horny over the new dynasty/house system and everyone can see my huge boner and ive been kicked out of the kfc for public indecency again, im a little concerned at how limited this dynastic rewards system seems

instead of linear paths of upgrades you unlock with exp, where you can eventually just unlock everything if you accumulate enough exp, wouldnt it be better to have a set number of perks you can unlock for unique combinations, or to only be able to access certain perks after performing specific actions ingame? i dont mean to be negative about something i havent even seen in action yet but man like at a glance this one looks bad todd

im hoping i get into the beta and im willing to give it a fair shot, i just wanna air my misgivings here first in case, i dunno, this never occurred to anybody or something
 
So is the Dynasy Legacy System supposed to replace the "bloodline" system we have in CK2 now?
You can take any, but you're going to want to progress down an entire track before starting a new one. The Legacies at the end are much more powerful than the ones at the start.


Oh, very much so. :)


Oh, you don't have to worry about the legacies enforcing outcomes like that. They just nudge the probabilities, they do not guarantee anything. We don't want everyone in a dynasty to be clones of each other, but we want them to reinforce different types of gameplay. I.e., a dynasty of lawmakers would probably make very good vassals, etc.


Of course!
Could we rename our Cadet Branch and change their shields as the Dynast? I mean, like playing as Seljuk but rename the house of Sultan of Rum "Rum"?
AI won't care much if called family "Panda", "Dragon", "Magyar" or something else.
Also, could members of a cadet family establish his/her own "cadet cadet family"? If so, would the house head of the original cadet family be able to control members of this new cadet family in some ways?
 
@rageair - a superb dev diary with excellent details, but one correction - the Capetian dynasty was founded by Hugh Capet when he became king of France in 987, not by King Robert I of France, who was a Robertian (as was his brother King Odo).

That aside, it's wonderful to hear that you've implemented such a system and I'm really happy the Robertians will be in game. I hope you've made a nice coat of arms for them!
It *could* be saying when the Robertine dynasy was founded, not when the Robertine Cadet Branch of Capet was founded.