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CK3 Dev Diary #2- The Medieval Map

Hello everyone!

I would like to take a moment to talk about the map of Crusader Kings 3, what the vision for the map is, and how it is different from Crusader Kings 2.

Let’s start with our ambitions. CK2 had several parts of the map that was outdated, and to be frank, a bit underdeveloped. When we started to update the map for CK3, we knew that we wanted to take a pass at everything, do additional research, and update the different areas accordingly. This goes for the entire De Jure title hierarchy, so there are several new kingdoms and duchies present. In terms of scope, the map will roughly match that of CK2. I know I will disappoint those of you hoping for China, but, sadly, it will not be on the map. We will however, have a few new additions: the entirety of Tibet will be present, unlike CK2 where the most eastern parts were excluded, and sub-Saharan Africa is also extended, where we’ve gone all the way to the Nigerian coast.

When setting the map visuals, province layout, rivers, and more, the focus has always been on clarity. The map should be easy to read and get information from. For example, you should be able to read most of the terrain simply by looking at the map, without the need to click on the province, or tooltip it, in order to find that out, while rivers should be easy to see and let you know if you will cross one when moving armies around.

We represent the map on three different zoom levels. When zoomed far out, the map will turn into an actual paper map, allowing for an easy overview and stylish screenshots. Zoom in a bit and you will have the 3D map, with the typical political overlay, great for interacting with your vassals and other realms. Zoom in even further and you’ll see the names of all the counties along with the terrain, as we strip away the realm colors. Perfect for moving armies around and knowing where to pick your battles, without the need to switch around to different map modes (but don’t worry, we still have several map modes for easily accessing different information).

One of the most notable changes is how we handle Baronies. In CK2, Counties were the smallest entity we had on the map, a province if you will, with several Baronies represented through the interface of the County view. In CK3, we took the next logical step and made Baronies into their own provinces. We have been able to create a map with much more granularity and better accuracy. Most Counties will normally consist of two to five Baronies, with some exceptions. The amount of provinces will be noticeable when waging war, as it offers a larger degree of movement for you armies (more on that in the future).

dd_02_baronies.png


To give you a good idea of the increased province density, here is a comparison of the British Islands in CK2 and CK3, being on the left and right side, respectively:

dd_02_ck2_ck3_comparison.png


Before you all go nuts about playable baronies: No. You cannot play as a Baron. The lowest playable rank will still be that of a Count. The emphasis will therefore be on the Counties rather than the individual Baronies. As such, Baronies exist with a few things in mind. For example, they can never leave a county. This means Counties stay the same over time, avoiding weird splits where a single barony goes independent or to another realm (reducing that hideous border-gore ever-so-slightly). The number of Baronies within a County is one factor that represents its wealth and how “good” it is. Another important factor is the terrain. A County with a lot of Desert will not be as beneficial as one with a lot of Farmlands for example.

Speaking of terrain, we have several different terrain types spread out across the map. Instead of having a single terrain spread out across large areas of the map, we differentiate between similar terrain types by separating them, such as Forest and Taiga, or Plains and Drylands. Not only does it make the map look and feel distinct in different parts of the world, they also have a different impact on gameplay.

dd_02_england.png


dd_02_maghreb.png


Then we have Impassable Terrain. These are far more frequent, and in many cases much larger, than you will be used to from CK2. We’ve essentially used these for any area that we consider uninhabited enough to warrant it not being part of an existing County. Some areas have plenty of smaller impassable provinces, such as the mountains surrounding Bohemia, while others have fewer and far larger pieces of inhospitable land, such as the deserts of Arabia and Syria. Impassable Terrain cannot be traversed by armies, often creating bottlenecks that you’ll have to pass through or perhaps even choose to go around, should it be heavily fortified.

dd_02_impassable.png


That’s it for now. I hope you enjoyed this early sneak peak of the map and I'll be sure to show more to you in the future!
 
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This looks really awesome and I do appreciate the expansion down to the nigerian coast.


On the topic of movement and travel time, one additional question.
Are you planning to implement the Itinerant court system of the early HRE? ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itinerant_court )
The german Emperors had been famous for their amount of travel and modern day german Highways still follow the old imperial path the emperors used to travel from Kaiserpfalz to Kaiserpfalz. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiserpfalz )
An itinerant court was also important for sanitary reasons...
 
The former. You cannot transfer barony vassals out of a given county, and the county holder will always be that baron's liege.

Hmm. I'm not sure I like that. Seems artificial and gamey, plus weird baron situations are a thing in CK2, where baronies are more abstract and it arguably makes less sense. Seems like it should be a thing in CK3.

How set in stone is everything? Is it too late to invoke "pretty please?"
 
This all looks really good to me. Even preventing baronies from being moved de facto out of their de jure county. Anyone trying to trigger a "completely controls" condition can attest to the annoyance of having to carefully scan a 500 county empire looking for a single tiny shield they need to acquire.
 
Although i tried to refrain from criticism untill i saw the final product, i'll have to admit that making baronies stuck on their respective county, makes the whole concept of baronies on the map somewhat meaningless.
Sure it will allow for better terrain type representation and better strategic value when commanding army movement, which is great, but the ability of molding the borders with a more refined shape is wasted by making counties the smallest amount of conquerable land.

Territories which suffered prolonged warfare with small gradual border changes suffer the most from this, first thing that comes to mind is the Reconquista, which was a very slow and gradual process that in CK2 simply cannot be recreated due to the fact the "Holy War" casus beli is duchy wide, and Iberia has a ridiculously low province density (despite having an higher populational density than the British Islands or Germany), meaning that you can finish the Reconquista in ~3/4 wars.

It would be far more interesting if we could expand our territories one barony at the time.
 
So if I understand this correctly CK3 will have HoI4 tier zoom-in feature? I really hope not because that's a no buy for me then. I hate this mechanic.
 
Great, DD, but I was expecting one for HOI IV today, have the dates of release been changed around due to EUIV going monthly?
 
We all need to understand - number of actual counties didn't raise that much from what they tell - and number of baronies is pretty much same. So to conquer Ireland you will still need to conquer all those castles (dunno about tribes) - even less since temples and cities will be autooccupied early in the game after occupation of counties castle(s). Sooo...dunno how it will play out, I think they entirely move the focus away from a warlike nature of a game to a more of role management

That IMHO is too bad. In terms of counties I was hoping for something in between the vanilla CK II map and a CK II map mod such as SWMH (part of HIP). The former was a bit lacking, but I understand that the latter in certain places might be a bit much for a vanilla map.

I'm not such happy about, what I've read regarding temple holdings thus far though.
 
It would be far more interesting if we could expand our territories one barony at the time.

I agree it would be far better if baronies could change hands and you could fight a war/do some diplomatic funkiness to retake that one barony that got uppity or got inherited by those blasted Habsburg again.

That said, I do NOT want to have to slog through conquest wars one barony at a time. That would be miserable.

I would love for that to be a thing that happens sometimes, but I definitely still want to be able to fabricate claims or have some general casus belli on a county basis for conquest purposes.
 
I hope the map font is still moddable, it's the only part of the UI I've seen that I don't like.

Any chance we can get a view of the British Isles at the different zoom levels? I'm disappointed to only get the close-ups here.
 
that map looks extraordinary, really love the terrain and how it acts with the water to create a master piece of a world so far.

Shame about china, bu you'll probably make a DLC with it included and sell it for an overpriced amount.
 
I feel like they didn't zoom out because in the first screenshots we got the "colored" political mode looked very in-progress with flat colors that were hard on the eye
 
I hope the map font is still moddable, it's the only part of the UI I've seen that I don't like.

Any chance we can get a view of the British Isles at the different zoom levels? I'm disappointed to only get the close-ups here.
There was a screenshot which shows part of the political map (though covered in the center by an event) I think it was on the Steam page.
 
I feel like they didn't zoom out because in the first screenshots we got the "colored" political mode looked very in-progress with flat colors that were hard on the eye
Yeah, that screenshot reminded me of EU III.
 
Isn't the main problem with baronies outside the counties control that it causes you to not fulfill the "completly controls X" trigger?
How about not implementing such a trigger (only requiring you to own the top county), instead of making baronies always be vassals of their county?

As for the secondary problem:
"Nobody wants to go to war over a single barony!" - That's true of course. But the problem aren't the baronies, it's the CB/Peace system which does not allow you to press all dejure claims and your personal claims at the same time. So add a peace deal option (not like in EU4, but restricted to your (and your vassals) claims/dejure claims - why shouldn't you go to war for multiple things?). So you're not only going to war for one single barony anymore.
But let's suppose that you only have this one (dejure) claim on the barony. Wouldn't it be annoying in this case? Well, the main cause of being annoyed by this in CK2 is that you will need to disband your levy after each war and raise it again for the next one. This is the main reason why such a small war is a tedious thing. Allow everyone to declare wars with raised levies (if inside own territory). Problem fixed.
And one could even add a "threaten war" option for this. So in case your target believes this one barony to be too insignificant and the cost of war too high, it will just give it up, transferring the baron to you.
 
This means Counties stay the same over time, avoiding weird splits where a single barony goes independent or to another realm (reducing that hideous border-gore ever-so-slightly).
Shame, I liked that aspect of Ck2, it opened up some interesting possibilities for starting date, with the baronies on the map it would have been even better. Oh well.

Wow, Guernsey's finally in! Congrats!
Er... no, it's the same color (170, 117 212) as the province nearby, meaning the channel island are just a decoration for Normandy and not an actual holding.
 
Hi @Servancour / devs, big CK2 fan here obviously. Just with some questions about the new map of Britain & Ireland.

Ireland is a larger land area than Scotland, and has always had a higher population, in the in-game time period, and also now.

At launch, CK2 Ireland had less provinces than Scotland, but the absolute beast that is @Snow Crystal changed it so that Ireland ended up with one more. Scotland also got more of course, but eventually Ireland ended up with 1 more.

The CK3 map has Scotland with 70 baronies (even excluding Isle of Man, Orkney, Shetlands), Ireland with only 45. I don't get it. Why would they take a step backwards from CK2 of having the relative sizes more accurate? Why make Ireland smaller again, when it was larger in both landmass and population?

Obviously CK3 at launch isn't going to have all of the same feature as CK2 did at 3.3.0 - I can accept that. But to be honest this regression in terms of proportional representation is disappointing. I really liked how the appropriate the proportions ended up being, between Ireland and its neighbours.
 
Why would they take a step backwards from CK2 of having the relative sizes more accurate?

It may be related to terrain since now it is said to affect holdings. So, perhaps, 70 baronies in Scotland are worth less than 45 in Ireland? At least I think that's the case