• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

CK3 Dev Diary #86 - Under the Banner

Well met!

There is a possibility you have noticed the colourful banners decorating the halls of the upcoming Royal Court expansion and wondered just how they work. If so, you are in luck!

As I’m sure you’ve heard if you follow these diaries, equippable Artifacts are returning to the franchise in a big way, and banners are one of the types of Court Artifact which can adorn your hall.

wall1.jpg


Banners
There are currently three types of commissionable banner: Dynasty and House banners depict the respective arms of your family, while Realm banners display the arms of a specific title (generally the primary title of the commissioner). These banners are a cut above the standard colors carried by your armies and heralds; heirlooms in their own right.

You may wonder what happens if the design of a crest changes during gameplay, such as after the Norman conquest, or when using the new Coat of Arms designer to make ground-breaking contributions to the field of heraldry.

Never fear, you will not need to commission new banners every time you nudge a fleur-de-lis; the Artifact’s designs are tied to their corresponding dynasty, house, or title, and will automatically reflect the results of your questionable artistic skills.

graphicdesign.jpg


All Courts begin the game with a House banner, and also with a Dynasty banner if the ruler is a Dynasty Head. Additional banners may be commissioned at any time if you employ an Antiquarian. You will also be presented with these banners upon gaining a Court for the first time if relevant, reflecting your new status as a King or Emperor.

wales.jpg


You can also see above that you must be a member of the respective family or cadet branch to gain the full benefits of a Dynasty or House banner. While you may gloat by displaying the banners of other families — acquired through war or subterfuge doing so will only improve your Court’s grandeur.

The three banner types grant different bonuses when equipped, with greater benefits from better quality Artifacts. While House and Realm banners use the same logic as other Artifacts to determine their quality (based on the skill of the weaver and other factors), Dynasty banners are their own breed.

Dynasty Banners
Each Dynasty will generally only have one banner in the world at any given time. Unlike House and Realm banners which can be commissioned at will, Dynasty banners can only be commissioned by Dynasty Heads, and only if one does not already exist within range of you.

However, House Heads of a Dynasty will always have claims on their Dynasty’s banner, allowing them to duel or wage war for them at will.

jimena.jpg


In addition, the quality of a Dynasty banner is directly tied to its Dynasty’s Renown, granting greater benefits as your family’s fame grows.

famed.jpg


The highest tier is unlocked upon reaching Legendary Dynasty Renown level. You may be relieved to hear Dynasty banners will never lose tiers, only gain them.

To avoid unnecessary headaches, the AI knows that a Dynasty banner really belongs to the Dynasty Head, and is inclined to return it to its proper place if it ends up elsewhere, even if they are from another House (as long as they have good relations with them).

War Banners
In addition to these creatable banners, there is also a type gained only by event: the War Banner.

byz.jpg


These captured banners can only be gained after battles, and will display the emblem of the defeated side’s primary title; perfect for commemorating your glorious victories.

Banner Relics
Lastly, there are also some historical banners knocking around, such as the Banner of Muhammad, and others of more dubious provenence may be found by adventurers.

thank.jpg


I hope this has temporarily sated your hunger for banner information. Until next time!
 
  • 87Like
  • 30Love
  • 12
  • 4
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
Can Counts and Tribal rulers still collect banner trophies even though they can't display for whatever reason. Still don't know why it was decided that Counts and Tribal rulers can't have courts. Hopefully mods can get that fixed quick, but still sucks for my achievement hunting games.
 
  • 2Like
  • 2
Reactions:
  • 2
Reactions:
However, House Heads of a Dynasty will always have claims on their Dynasty’s banner, allowing them to duel or wage war for them at will.
How frequently does the AI go to war over a banner? Do you still need to occupy half the enemy country to get 100% warscore before you can reclaim your banner?
 
  • 4Like
Reactions:
I do hope the "Banner of Thankfulness" is quite rare to get indeed, if not, it points to stats/bonuses creep and in the end an even more unbalanced game. Quite a powerful artifact to have!
 
  • 10Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
I asked last itme but sadly got no reply from a dev, is the DNA system reworked in RC update 1.5? it seems like some characters especially female characters facial structures look unfamiliar

I remember that someone replied though. It was worked on a bit
Yes, the dev replied. They said they made a few changes, but that's all.
 
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I am not sure if the CB for a dynasty banner is justified. Maybe it should be automatically included in the peace treaty for the winning party if he had a claim on it during another war (like a county war). I am not a historian but wars should be expensive and morale of armies should play a role here too. Imo kind of immersion breaking, or are dynasty banners that important?
I agree this seems a little bit of a strange one. Medieval wars were started over some really stupid things, but I haven't read about dynastic banners being a particular trophy.

It's great that the devs are trying to provide a wider range of CBs to add flavour, but rather than an automatic CB for Dynasty Banners, a better way to handle this would have been to have events that allow any Artifact to become a CB in certain circumstances. For example, you have a Feast event where something falls off the wall (more likely if court grandeur is low?), an argument starts about who is the rightful owner of a banner/tapestry/other wall decoration, and it ends in a CB. Or a hidden event that is triggered when characters reach Legendary prestige, then has their landed grandchildren fight over their legendary grandparent's Dynastic Banner.

Besides the persons bowing in the first picture does not look healthy
I hope that this is just because the screenshot is capturing one frame of an animation. Real-life people also look a bit weird sometimes if you capture them mid-movement.

P.S. This post is not showing on the front page of the forums for some reason.
 
Last edited:
  • 5
Reactions:
Will the King of France be able to create the Oriflamme, or can battle banners only be created by "taking" them from enemies? If they are event-only, it would be pretty cool for a version of the event to involve one of your own ordinary battle banners turn into an artifact because of some heroic deed done beneath it.
 
Last edited:
  • 8Like
Reactions:
I like the idea of banners and other clutter as a means to beautify the throneroom. What I do not like is the myriad of ridiculous bonuses like build cost reduction or bonus to troops' quality or battle advantage. In most cases these items should grant only grandeur (maybe with the exception of some very rare legendary items - let's say if my Muslim troops belive I hold the banner of Muhhammad they should have some bonus to morale). However, in most cases those bonuses should be as minor as possible - if any. Another reason is gameplay - relevant information should be easily accessible. So you tell me that before I start a war I should peer into the inventory and throneroom of my would-be opponent, just in case he has some magic items that give him advantage on the battlefield? Like a piece of rag in his throneroom that boosts the guy's soldiers? Also, since only kings and emperors have courts, wouldn't they get an advantage over lower rank rulers who can't use magic carpets?

Why can't banners be, well, just banners?
 
  • 10
  • 4Like
  • 4
Reactions:
I do hope the "Banner of Thankfulness" is quite rare to get indeed, if not, it points to stats/bonuses creep and in the end an even more unbalanced game. Quite a powerful artifact to have!
It’s a unique artifact that is owned by the Fatimid’s at start, as it was part of the Fatimid regalia in real life :)

The Fatimid court is not the only one with some pretty rare starting artifacts at the start of the game.
 
  • 30
  • 4Like
  • 4Love
Reactions:
I love the idea of banners being captureable. Your one-armed marshal and your knights making a last stand around the king's banner.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I do hope the "Banner of Thankfulness" is quite rare to get indeed, if not, it points to stats/bonuses creep and in the end an even more unbalanced game. Quite a powerful artifact to have!

That is my worry as well. Especially since we already know that it's not the only type of artifacts that gives bonuses to stuff outside the court system. Other than that neat little feature.

I wonder what level of variety is there in the shapes though. The three banners visible on the pictures have slight variation in the bottom frills, but the overall frame is rather square-ish for all three.
 
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:
This a definitely a nice addition to the game.

You can also see above that you must be a member of the respective family or cadet branch to gain the full benefits of a Dynasty or House banner. While you may gloat by displaying the banners of other families — acquired through war or subterfuge — doing so will only improve your Court’s grandeur.
As all the bonuses are below the "if you fulfill the requirements" text, it isn't clear the requirements aren't needed to be met to get the grandeur. Maybe move the grandeur bonus to the top (above the requirements text) to make it more clear you get it even if you don't meet the requirements.

edit:
wales.jpg

Also, say that as a relative minor cadet branch, I want to keep the banners of the previous holders in my throne room (in RP terms) claim a spiritual descendance. With this system, it won't even be possible as they would automatically be changed to my ugly and honourless insigna...
Sounds like the auto updating of the banner is only if the title, house, or dynasty the banner is tied to changes their design for whatever reason. That shouldn't stop you from having banners tied to multiple houses.
 
Last edited:
  • 2
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
It’s a unique artifact that is owned by the Fatimid’s at start, as it was part of the Fatimid regalia in real life :)

The Fatimid court is not the only one with some pretty rare starting artifacts at the start of the game.
Thanks for the answer.
Sounds nice to have some of these artifacts to go around as long as you are careful with the overall game balance. So far and from all the other artifacts' effects I saw, you seem to be careful about that.
 
Last edited:
It’s a unique artifact that is owned by the Fatimid’s at start, as it was part of the Fatimid regalia in real life :)

The Fatimid court is not the only one with some pretty rare starting artifacts at the start of the game.
Who else starts out with these artifacts at Game Start?
 
I don’t know if I like the fact that the banners can be changed on command. I want to see the history of my dynasty reflected in the different banners I own. Not being able to save the old banners takes away some roleplaying IMO.
 
  • 12
  • 2Like
Reactions: