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CKIII Dev Diary #25 - Map Features and Map Modes

Greetings everyone!

Today I’m here to talk a bit about the map. Building on top of our early map related DD#2 (if you have yet to read it, you can do so here), I’ll expand that discussion by outlining additional features, new information, and how you interact with the map itself!

Terrain
Let’s start with the terrain, which has a significant impact on several parts of the game. Different terrain types allow for different buildings to be constructed. For example, farmland allows for superior economy buildings, while mountainous terrain unlocks rather impressive defensive structures. They also have an effect on development, making development change faster or slower over time. Expect it to be a massive undertaking of developing the Sahara, while developing the fertile fields of India will be a much easier task.

As for combat, one of the most noticeable effects is that of combat width. When you are fielding a much larger army than your opponent, you will favour a high combat width, so you’ll want to seek to engage the enemy in plains or drylands. On the other hand, fighting in rough terrain like mountains or wetlands will restrict the number of units that can simultaneously engage the enemy, allowing small armies with powerful Men-at-Arms to truly excel. Terrain also affects army movement speed, along with the usual defensive bonus you would expect in rough terrain types, which is gained in the form of increased Advantage at the start of a battle.

The terrain types we have available are the following:
Farmlands - Has access to many different and powerful buildings, allowing you to easily customize your holding the way you want to. Paired with high development speed, farmland provinces are highly desirable to hold in your domain.
Floodplains - Another desirable terrain type used in certain areas, such as along the Nile. Similar in power to farmlands, but with some minor differences.
Plains - One of the most common terrain types, plains exist almost everywhere and provide a wide range of building options.
Drylands - A variant of plains with slightly different buildings available.
Desert - While deserts doesn’t offer a whole lot in terms of taxes, supply limit or development, it does have access to levies and a unique building chain increasing your number of available Knights.
Oasis - These exist only in certain areas. The terrain has access to similar buildings as desert, but without the penalties in supply limit or development.
Steppe - Mostly used by tribals on the wide steppe, this is where Horse Archers reign supreme. The steppe starts with low development, and has a significant penalty in development growth.
Forest - Has lower combat width and supply limit, but offers great buildings for improving archers and skirmishers.
Taiga - A variant found in the very northern parts of the map, with slightly lower combat width and supply limit than forest.
Jungle - Mainly found in India and offers even less combat width and supply limit. It does, however, have access to a unique building chain for improving your Knights and heavy cavalry.
Hills - Hills offers a small Advantage bonus in combat, and has access to both fortifications and decent tax buildings.
Mountains - Has access to great fortifications and defensive buildings, making it a long and risky business to siege down holdings.
Desert Mountains - Similar to mountains, but for desert areas (obviously), with lower supply limit, development growth, as well as a bonus that allows defending armies to take less casualties when retreating.
Wetlands - While wetlands still allow for some decent buildings, it’s a terrain type you don’t want to fight battles in if you can avoid it. Especially if there’s a risk of being on the losing side...

25_01_wetlands.jpg


25_01_farmlands.jpg


Context Sensitive Selection
We want it to be easy to gain information directly from the map. Whenever you change map modes, or have something “selected”, we update the map accordingly and allow you to often interact with the map itself. Clicking on the map on any given realm, will open that ruler’s character view. This in turn allows you to see rulers he is at war with, his allies, or direct vassals. All of this is shown directly on the map and is selectable, though you do not have to rely on finding it on the map; we still show relations and everything in the interface as well.

25_02_ruler_selection.jpg


This applies to everything we show on the map. Regardless of your map mode, you can always click to select the “entity” you are looking at. If you have the faith map mode active, you can click on a faith to open the interface for it, as well as seeing where its holy sites are located.

Realm Map Mode
Your bread and butter map mode is what we simply call the Realm map mode.
When zoomed in you’ll encounter what we call the detail level, and will see the map for what it is. Terrain of individual baronies, rivers, and holding graphics are all clearly visible.

25_03_realm_1.jpg


Zoom out a bit and you’ll transition into the Realms layer, your typical political map mode. Realms are clearly highlighted with their colour, allowing you to easily see all independent realms at a glance, while still showing the coat of arms of your direct vassals, to allow for easy realm management.

25_04_realm_2.jpg


Zoom out further and you’ll enter the paper map. This is the place to go for a rather fancy overview of the world (or excellent screenshots)! Only independent realms are shown, without any vassal breakdowns. For now, I’ll just tease you with a partial picture, as we’ll show the entire thing in a later DD. And yes, we got the mandatory sea monsters!

25_05_realm_3.jpg


Other Map Modes
Our other map modes remain consistent in the information they show as you zoom in and out, and do not have the level dependency of Realms. If you have the faith map mode open, you are gonna want to see faiths regardless of your zoom level. You’ll still get the spectacular paper map when you zoom further out, but the information shown on the map will remain the same.

De Jure - As you’d expect, we have dedicated map modes for showing the De Jure areas of duchies, kingdoms, and empires.

Faiths - Allows you to easily see what faiths are spread out around the world.

Cultures - For that nifty culture overview.

Houses - Since it’s a game about characters and dynasties, we want it to be easy to see which house is governing the different realms.

Counties - Highlights individual counties in their respective colour.

Terrain - Shows all terrain types in different colours, for that quick and easy overview of the dominant terrain in any given area. Very useful if you have several Men-at-Arms options available with different terrain bonuses.

Governments - The map mode for viewing what kind of government rulers have.

Development - Gives you an overview of what the development level is across the map.

25_06_house_map_mode.jpg


That’s it for today! I’ll be back next week with another map related entry. Where I plan to simply show you, well, everything regarding the scope of the map and how different parts of the world looks!
 
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However, do you have some story on why these areas give the mentioned boni? Some way to make them plausible? Do knights like it hot in any combination of dry/wet? Is this a Tatooine/Dagobah thing and if so, should we expect to face tusken raider or our inner fears there?

Well....
 
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Also, can we get different naming conventions for dynasties. It's clear that the syntax of this page is set to French and English style of family naming. House of Anjou, House Bannox, House Baratheon, etc. But no one says House Jimena. It's the House of Jimeno. Same for the regnant family in Castile and Galicia, the Alfonsos, or Bani Alfun... worse still, then people are surnamed Jimena. Alfionso Jimena. What? Alfonso of the Jimenos, alright. Alfonso Jiménez, nope (he's not the son of any Jimeno, unless he is, but most will not be). Alfonso of House Jimena... doesn't sound natural at all.
I think this happens in English because of the use of the adjectival form of the dynasty name: dinastía Jimena ("Jimenan" dynasty), since in Spanish "dinastía" is a feminine noun, hence the adjective must also be feminine.
I agree that Alfonso Jimena sounds counterintuitive in Spanish.
 
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Development is a value representing the infrastructure and technological advancements of a county, increasing taxes, levies, and supply limit.
Supply limit is very similar to our other games. If you army is large enough to go above the supply limit, the army will lose supply. When the supply of the army is low, it will start to take attrition.


There's no option for doing it. Though I think the game should be moddable enough for you to be able switch out some of the behaviour.


We do not have an option for it, no. It should be fairly easy to mod it though, to replace it with something less fancy (and possibly less distracting), or just not have it show up at all.
so, i mean, you guys keep saying you can mod stuff, but in my experience imperator: rome is extremely ornery about its checksum and ive heard no word ck3 isnt going to be the same. i, personally, cannot envision a reality where this zoom-based system isnt completely unplayable for me, im an old man and i have set habits and i would greatly prefer to just lock one map in and toggle between them manually. if i mod this, am i still gonna have access to my cheevies?

im annoyed now the forum was down and i missed the window when the devs are still checking the thread because i really would like an answer to this
 
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Wetlands should have even bigger combat malus for heavy infantry/cavalry as they had a higher chance to get stuck in the mud. Using this advantage, a lighter pagan army could defeat an otherwise stronger feudal lord. That's how, for example, battle of Saule has been won.
 
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Wetlands should have even bigger combat malus for heavy infantry/cavalry as they had a higher chance to get stuck in the mud. Using this advantage, a lighter pagan army could defeat an otherwise stronger feudal lord. That's how, for example, battle of Saule has been won.
Well, my guess is that certain Men at Arms will have additional combat penalties in wetlands like heavy infantry and cavalry.
 
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Your bread and butter map mode is what we simply call the Realm map mode.
When zoomed in you’ll encounter what we call the detail level, and will see the map for what it is. Terrain of individual baronies, rivers, and holding graphics are all clearly visible.

Zoom out a bit and you’ll transition into the Realms layer, your typical political map mode. Realms are clearly highlighted with their colour, allowing you to easily see all independent realms at a glance, while still showing the coat of arms of your direct vassals, to allow for easy realm management.

Zoom out further and you’ll enter the paper map. This is the place to go for a rather fancy overview of the world (or excellent screenshots)! Only independent realms are shown, without any vassal breakdowns. For now, I’ll just tease you with a partial picture, as we’ll show the entire thing in a later DD. And yes, we got the mandatory sea monsters!
I'm going to be blunt here: Making certain map modes only available at certain levels of zoom is an incredibly bad idea. It makes a wide variety of things impossible or difficult to do. For example, I can't look at the direct vassals of the HRE or the terrain of the Middle East, because zooming out enough to see that large of an area forces me into the paper map mode. If I'm operating in a region that's comprised of lots of one or two county polities, such as Ireland, zooming out far enough to make the map display different polities as different colors is also going to make any details, such as the names of the polities, hard to make out. I also can't leave the map on terrain view when I'm not doing anything else, which I do in CK2 because I find the terrain view to be the prettiest. And there doesn't seem to be any benefit to making the map vary by zoom level, either, so I'm questioning why this feature was even implemented.
 
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I'm liking this so far.

A few suggestions, if I may:



Cool, but can't we get monsters and map art which looks, actually, Medieval? This looks like 19th Century stuff.

atlascatalan4.jpg

I want to offer a dissenting voice here. Medieval art looks terrible. I'd rather have something that won't make me want to puke my eyes off over something authentic to the time period.
 
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I'm liking this so far.

A few suggestions, if I may:



Cool, but can't we get monsters and map art which looks, actually, Medieval? This looks like 19th Century stuff.

atlascatalan4.jpg




Good job with the heraldry, but bad job on the coat of arms frame. This one looks way too much 16th Century for my Medieval taste. Especially the weird Baroque shapes on the Dynasty coat of arms. What about a less imaginative approach, more based on iconography from before 1500?

charles-the-bold-ordinances-of-charles-the-bold-s-netherlands-circa-1473-whole-folio-charles-the-bold-duke-of-burgundy-receiving-the-oath-of-allegiance-from-his-military-captains-the-duke-is-seated-surrounded-by-his-court-he-receives-a-book-from-a-kneeling-knight-and-on-his-left-delivers-a-baton-to-another-knight-decorated-border-with-the-dukes-coat-of-arms-image-taken-from-ordinances-of-charles-the-bold-originally-publishedproduced-in-s-netherlands-circa-1473-source-add-36619-f5-language-french-R56M83.jpg


Also, can we get different naming conventions for dynasties. It's clear that the syntax of this page is set to French and English style of family naming. House of Anjou, House Bannox, House Baratheon, etc. But no one says House Jimena. It's the House of Jimeno. Same for the regnant family in Castile and Galicia, the Alfonsos, or Bani Alfun... worse still, then people are surnamed Jimena. Alfionso Jimena. What? Alfonso of the Jimenos, alright. Alfonso Jiménez, nope (he's not the son of any Jimeno, unless he is, but most will not be). Alfonso of House Jimena... doesn't sound natural at all.

This is also a problem in most Eastern European families, Greek dynasties and most cultures which are not French and English.

++++
Can we get an update on the heraldry improvements? I see that you've reduced the number of tinctures to a reasonable amount (four colours, two metals) and most of the apparently random coats of arms are reasonably plausible. The Muslim ones look very good.
In English references, the dynasty is either the Jiménez or the Jimena dynasty. It's not referred to as "the House of Jimeno" in English references. For the english localisation of the game, those are the "natural" names that one would expect to see.

The Spanish localisations might use a different naming convention though.
 
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25_04_realm_2.jpg

Comparing that map to something like the below heightmap makes me think i'm looking at two totally different peninsulas?
Iberia is nowhere near as flat or unobstructed as the above image would suggest. Can we get some more mountain chains please? Even if they aren't fully to scale, in case it makes that region too hard to play in, there should be more mountains.
[such as the ones >1k metres which would definitely not be somewhere a medieval army would be headed through]
RELIEF+OF+SPAIN+2.jpg
 
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Comparing that map to something like the below heightmap makes me think i'm looking at two totally different peninsulas?
Iberia is nowhere near as flat or unobstructed as the above image would suggest. Can we get some more mountain chains please? Even if they aren't fully to scale, in case it makes that region too hard to play in, there should be more mountains.
[such as the ones >1k metres which would definitely not be somewhere a medieval army would be headed through]

if you look closely to the in game maps, you notice that some mountain chains in the north and in the pirineos (ironically the ones you mentioned) are in the game they are just represented coloured because Galicia and France control the majority of bordering counties
 
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What does "Create new Holding" mean?
I see there are a few mapmodes, but what about Revolt Risk Map, Direct Vassals Map and Plague Map, which were very important (and the other minor ones from CK2)?

From what I remember there are empty "baronies" on the map, where can build cities.

Whats the reasoning behind giving jungles and deserts a bonus to knights?

Mmm, maybe it will be linked to things like Desert Cavarly and Elephants?
 
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I really, really love this. The fact that buildings are defined by terrain, the fact that oasis are no longer restricted by desert terrains...and especially that lovely paper map (just imagine how awesome it would look in mods). :)

In fact, I think that paper map style should be imported into other PDS games as well.
 
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Wow, that paper map looks amazing. The only issue I have is that there's maybe a little bit too many objects like monsters or boats in the Mediterranean Sea - I'd delete that lobster and move boat to its place and it would be perfect.
Other than that the map looks amazing, I wish the rest of the interface was in medieval style like in CK2, instead of boring modern theme.
 
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I just wanted to drop by to say how gorgeous the paper map mode looks. I'm glad you really took the best of the Imperator Rome enhancements to the map and improved upon them even further!

This one screenshot of the paper map got me hyped from an already pretty high 90% to, like, 9001%.
 
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