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CO Word of the Week #14

While we’re receiving plenty of questions about Cities: Skylines II features, we have also received a ton of questions on topics surrounding the game. Today we’ll go over some of the difficult ones.

Are you going to address the content creators’ concerns and criticisms?
All constructive feedback that we receive is valued and very much appreciated. Thank you to those of you who tagged us and shared the content creators' videos that highlight feedback you agree with and to everyone who took part in the constructive discussions that followed. For example, Biffa and City Planner Plays released videos with useful and constructive criticism that we have gone over with the team. We’ll be addressing the feedback according to the process described below.

Feedback process_transparent.png


Here are some examples of the smaller changes we have made since release based on your feedback:
- Added line color to passenger ships, cargo ships, and cargo train engines.
- Improved moving in pathfinding. This prevents citizens from reserving homes from disconnected buildings (Or moving into the city at all if it's not connected to an outside connection).
- Increased all emergency vehicle siren sound distances.

And I believe the more interesting part is the larger changes that we are looking into now, based on the community feedback:
- Land Value and Zone Suitability
- Education system, specifically kids and teens
- More transparency in the economic system
- Balancing subsidies and service importing
- Balancing negative happiness modifiers with lack of basic utilities (water, sewage, electricity)

How do you plan to get out of this mess? / What is in the works to fix Cities: Skylines II? / What will you do to set things right for the disaster launch of CS2?
We’d much rather be in a different position than we are in at the moment, but we cannot change the past. We’re working very hard to catch up on the missing modding support, missing platforms, the content for the Ultimate Edition, and improving the performance and fixing bugs this year. The team is divided to work on different tasks so that we’re seeing progress on all fronts and while it might not feel that it’s fast enough I can assure you we are all doing the best we can. Only time will tell if this is enough to turn things around.

There have also been many questions about the patch cadence and why we moved away from weekly patches. Weekly patches are too heavy for us to keep up with and the issues we are working on need more time than just a few hours or days to fix. We’re a small team of 30 developers and we have to plan the work in a way that creates the fastest results. So instead of spending a big part of the week working on the build deliveries and QA rounds, we can use that time to work on the fixes themselves. For the Ultimate Edition, the DLCs already have a rough schedule so we’ll have good opportunities to patch the game at the same time. This doesn’t mean that we never patch the game between the DLC releases. The goal is to improve the game as quickly as possible and when we have a solid patch ready and tested it will be released.

We are aware we have a mountain to climb when it comes to delivering on the expectations but we have our ice picks ready and we are surely used to the cold. We're going to keep on climbing and you'll continue to see that progress in the game.

Why wasn’t modding support available at release?
The biggest regret we have is that modding support is not yet available for the game. We have been working on it since the beginning of the project and the intent was to have it fully ready at release. Code modding support, map, and asset editing were all planned to be fully usable and mods shareable in one place. We still believe that offering modding support makes any game better and that the tools and mods should be available for all players to enjoy at no additional cost.

During the project we faced, and still continue to face, technical difficulties that affect the speed and quality of the development, especially performance. We simply ran out of time as the focus had to shift from modding support to all hands on deck to fix the performance. All this work is still ongoing.

We’ll be communicating more on the status of the modding soon. It’s not an ideal situation but we are committed to keep working on this part of the game because it means so much to you and to us. “A Colossal Order game is a moddable one” is a promise we have made to ourselves years ago and work very hard to keep.

And we’ll top off today’s WotW with a few quick ones:
Q: More animations to come? Construction, firemen, etc
A: Yes, in the future we’ll be adding more animations to bring details and life to the cities!
Q: When will we have cycle paths on CSII?
A: I don’t know when we’ll get around to them, but Cities: Skylines II will have bikes and bike paths.
Q: Will you add more types of buildings or special buildings?
A: Yes, there will be more buildings both free and paid for the game in the future. If there is something specific you hope to see, we’d love to hear it!
Q: Will we get actual quays like the ones in CS1?
A: This sounds like it would fit great with the harbor-themed Bridges & Ports DLC coming later this year!
Q: When will we get props?
A: Adding the props to the menus for free placement in the game has come up as a request quite often. This is not something we are actively looking into at the moment, but will be added to the wishlist!
Q: When will the land value issue finally be fixed?
A: In the next update we’ll have part of it fixed, but the issues that are tied to the economy will take a bit longer to be resolved still.
Q: Will there be more biomes like wetlands/jungle or more desert like Texas?
A: Yes, we plan to add more maps with different biomes and also assets for you to create your own.

Thank you for all the questions, as well as the constructive criticism and feedback, it is valued and appreciated. Keep it coming! We’ll be back next week with something different: words from the art team!

Sincerely,
Mariina
 
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I think that was a positive response and encouraged me towards a future purchase, but will give it a month or two longer ( handily I can’t really afford it right now anyway!)
 
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Thank you for a great update! I think CS:II has the potential to be so much better than CS:I and while I understand it will take time and patience to get there I am personally excited to be along for the journey!
 
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Still not hearing a thing on console. Is it on track still , getting pushed back even farther than spring 24 as last updated in the fall or should it even be expected this year? No news feels like bad news.

We should be realistic here and take 3 steps to learn about console release:

Step 1
Let's look at the CS2 performance on PC, even on high end machines.

Step 2
Have a look at tech specs of current generation consoles .

Step 3
Conclusion: CS2 requires basically miracles to run on consoles in somehow acceptable way.


I am not saying that CS2 on consoles is never going to happen, but it will at least require some major rework of game simulation and rendering systems. The work to be done is probably massive, maybe on scale comparable to brand new project.
 
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Hi,

This is definitely the most appreciated word of the week for me since the December patch. Finally, no more beating around the bush with the recognition that the game is not yet living up to its promises. I totally agreed with Biffa that nothing was important in the game and that everything was always fine. I have some hope that we won't have to wait 10/15 years for CS3 to have the perfect game between advanced simulation and landscaping.

I can't wait for mod support, whether it's new features or assets.

I'm looking forward to seeing the animations in the city, it's clear that it's missing something. The biome idea is also great.
 
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“A Colossal Order game is a moddable one"
As much as I like modding, I don't like the fact that once again there is already so much need for mods to make the game better. You already need Population Rebalance mod, FindStuff mod(when find it was added in CS1 in the last update), Realistic Density mod, Map Texture Replacer mod and so on. These are just some mods that are already out on "Black market" ( not using the real name cause I might get banned, happens on official discord when on social media of Cities Skylines I see posts of modded cities).
There are also the need for game fixing mods already but I'll leave that for now cause you are working on that.
My point is that I already see myself downloading plenty mods just to fix some issues and add some features that were in cities skylines 1 or should have been added to cities skylines 2. The dependecy on mods is getting old. People are already tired of doing that in cities skylines 1.
Please don't make modders do the work for you, they are not the ones getting paid.

Also, might be said many times here already but your statement that props are still just in wishlist made me want to say something. It is clear that you are not thinking to support the "city painters" anytime soon when all the creators I see on Youtube, Twitch want to detail their cities. Once again, it will be left to the modders. Why neglect us? Props are there in game but you need DevUI to access them and yet you can't seem to think about adding it to the game.

I guess, like you said, time will tell. Peace.
 
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Question about collecting feedback:

Are you planning to add, or at least open to study to add some of the following features?:

- Connect paths to buildings (specially parks)
- Place decals to integrate parks and make them look better and integrated
- Make some tools to modify zoning
- Make some tools to place trees faster and easily, like lines or shapes to create parks (visually, because I guess we will have to wait to Parks DLC to create bigger and more complex function parks).

Finally, it's sad to see that props it's not in the incoming future, it could help to make better parks. I was something that was on CS1 and helped to detail areas easily and make cities look more alive.

Thanks.
 
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I am not saying that CS2 on consoles is never going to happen, but it will at least require some major rework of game simulation and rendering systems. The work to be done is probably massive, maybe on scale comparable to brand new project.
Which is good news for us PC players btw. All the work they have to do to get this game run acceptable on console will improve performance for us PC players as well. So in my mind, CO still pushing for a console release is a good thing.
 
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It’s great to see so much news and we have many, many more suggestions to make : )
1. I would like to know if you plan to add more content and update details to these released DLCs after they are released in the future? Or even expand in DLC? !
2. Is there flexibility? For example: short-term hotfixes only at critical times, followed by long-term updates.
3. Have more ways to observe people and have options to interact with them? ! Just like City Hall!
 
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I'm just a bit confused why you're not addressing the very big performance issues, and seem intent on throwing DLC on top of it.
I get it, artists aren't programmers, but you're going to slow the whole process down doing that.
There are no performance issues any longer. just people with out dated hardware who think that a game designed to be relevant in 10 years should run perfectly on 5 year old kit.
 
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These statements without an update that fixes the bugs are useless.
except people were mad the word of the week was going to stop WoTWeeking because they originally were going to stop until updates to the game were out. I'm not happy we have to wait for fixes that should not have gone live, but I'd rather them do the fixes right than fast.
 
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“A Colossal Order game is a moddable one"
As much as I like modding, I don't like the fact that once again there is already so much need for mods to make the game better. You already need Population Rebalance mod, FindStuff mod(when find it was added in CS1 in the last update), Realistic Density mod, Map Texture Replacer mod and so on. These are just some mods that are already out on "Black market" ( not using the real name cause I might get banned, happens on official discord when on social media of Cities Skylines I see posts of modded cities).
There are also the need for game fixing mods already but I'll leave that for now cause you are working on that.
My point is that I already see myself downloading plenty mods just to fix some issues and add some features that were in cities skylines 1 or should have been added to cities skylines 2. The dependecy on mods is getting old. People are already tired of doing that in cities skylines 1.
Please don't make modders do the work for you, they are not the ones getting paid.

Also, might be said many times here already but your statement that props are still just in wishlist made me want to say something. It is clear that you are not thinking to support the "city painters" anytime soon when all the creators I see on Youtube, Twitch want to detail their cities. Once again, it will be left to the modders. Why neglect us? Props are there in game but you need DevUI to access them and yet you can't seem to think about adding it to the game.

I guess, like you said, time will tell. Peace.
The argument by them that a game is moddable doesn't make sense when in console you can't have them (code mods). Those are the ones that make really different and releases all the potential of the game. Like we saw in som CS1 cities on PC that show really crazy futuristic/medieval/... cities. It's not only about assets, it's also mods that help to place them, or modify them (procedural objects), for example.

We can have thousands of assets in Console CS2, but still can't be able to create some of the crazy cities we've seen on PC.

And totally agree, "city painters" are totally banned from the game itself. They will have to wait to mods, and don't want to play to the game on console.

In my cities, I am not a very big fan of hardcore "city painter", but I like to do so a little bit in some areas, specially parks, CS2 really makes you forget about it because it's a really difficult thing, would be great to see some tools from the core of the game. Because, as happened in CS1, saves of cities won't work properly, as well as mods, every time we have an update. I was hoping in CS2 to play Vanilia or almost, but I think that the same pain in each update will come back in CS2 if we want some personalization and freedom to build.
 
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I have been very critical about these WoW's in the past, and have given my 2 cents about how they should've been written. I would just like to say: thank you for this really insightful and useful Word of the Week. It addresses the important questions, it gives some information about the future, and gives an insight into what is currently being worked on.

Kudo's to you @co_martsu, and the team!

Btw, looking at the depot information in Steam, it kind of looks like CO are readying themselves to release the beach properties DLC. Or at least they are syncing up release and test channels. But that might just be some wishful thinking from my part :)
 
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We should be realistic here and take 3 steps to learn about console release:

Step 1
Let's look at the CS2 performance on PC, even on high end machines.

Step 2
Have a look at tech specs of current generation consoles .

Step 3
Conclusion: CS2 requires basically miracles to run on consoles in somehow acceptable way.


I am not saying that CS2 on consoles is never going to happen, but it will at least require some major rework of game simulation and rendering systems. The work to be done is probably massive, maybe on scale comparable to brand new project.
2x simulation speed is probably a Playstation 5 Pro exclusive feature :p
 
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It's perfectly understandable why there won't be weekly patches. What rubs me the wrong way is that with this WoW you're mainting your position of making it sound like taking responsibility without actually doing so. Once again disappointing.

Are we really to believe that you need feedback before you realize how unfinished and bugged your game is and what should be done about it? Do you actually think the real problem is [player's] expectations? Come on!

Not that I'd expect an apology but at least take responsibility.
 
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I have grown my city now to 700k. My computer is starting to chug under the weight of it all but it still playeable. What happened is that it became really interesting to play once again as the 700k beast constantly throws up challenges. Fixing one thing usually breaks a few others and you find yourself spending days trying to get the jigsaw to work. Interestingly it never settles and something new pops up.

Yes I need custom assets, yes I need more transparency on the economy so I can fix issues intelligently, and I DEFINATELY need land value/demand fixed as I am now reaching out for Dev mode and resetting land vale/rents every so often which is not how I want to be playing this game.

Most of all we need Modding as all these things can ultimately be delivered by modders as there is only 30 devs in Collosal Order and hundreds of enthusiasts on the modding side.

Stay positive :)

28-January-09-36-48-03.png
 
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I spent a lot of money to buy CS2 months before the date... but today, 25th February, the game is still a mess: a botched upgrade of CS1.
I'm still waiting for modding, workshop, enhancements, new features, bug fixes but every week I witness a thread full of chattering.

So disappointed.
 
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Congrats. This has been the best WOW since release of CS2.

Lots of info, lots of actual feedback adressed, self concience, to the point, teases to the future, ... It has most things I have been wanting to know for weeks now.

Shame it took 4 months to get here with stumbling into many pitfalls while on the way. But at least we are here now.

EDIT: What is up with all the console complainers. It is clearly documented everywhere and in this post that the basegame on PC has a long road to go in performance, bugs, features. Why are people begging to have a half finished product released too early on console? You are part of the problem why games are released half finished or broken nowadays. Wait until PC is fully up to par and then the console version will come later.
Hear hear. Let’s hope this can be the start of something new and working back to where CS2 should be: a great city builder simulation that fulfills the promises made during pre-release.
 
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