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CO Word of the Week #14

While we’re receiving plenty of questions about Cities: Skylines II features, we have also received a ton of questions on topics surrounding the game. Today we’ll go over some of the difficult ones.

Are you going to address the content creators’ concerns and criticisms?
All constructive feedback that we receive is valued and very much appreciated. Thank you to those of you who tagged us and shared the content creators' videos that highlight feedback you agree with and to everyone who took part in the constructive discussions that followed. For example, Biffa and City Planner Plays released videos with useful and constructive criticism that we have gone over with the team. We’ll be addressing the feedback according to the process described below.

Feedback process_transparent.png


Here are some examples of the smaller changes we have made since release based on your feedback:
- Added line color to passenger ships, cargo ships, and cargo train engines.
- Improved moving in pathfinding. This prevents citizens from reserving homes from disconnected buildings (Or moving into the city at all if it's not connected to an outside connection).
- Increased all emergency vehicle siren sound distances.

And I believe the more interesting part is the larger changes that we are looking into now, based on the community feedback:
- Land Value and Zone Suitability
- Education system, specifically kids and teens
- More transparency in the economic system
- Balancing subsidies and service importing
- Balancing negative happiness modifiers with lack of basic utilities (water, sewage, electricity)

How do you plan to get out of this mess? / What is in the works to fix Cities: Skylines II? / What will you do to set things right for the disaster launch of CS2?
We’d much rather be in a different position than we are in at the moment, but we cannot change the past. We’re working very hard to catch up on the missing modding support, missing platforms, the content for the Ultimate Edition, and improving the performance and fixing bugs this year. The team is divided to work on different tasks so that we’re seeing progress on all fronts and while it might not feel that it’s fast enough I can assure you we are all doing the best we can. Only time will tell if this is enough to turn things around.

There have also been many questions about the patch cadence and why we moved away from weekly patches. Weekly patches are too heavy for us to keep up with and the issues we are working on need more time than just a few hours or days to fix. We’re a small team of 30 developers and we have to plan the work in a way that creates the fastest results. So instead of spending a big part of the week working on the build deliveries and QA rounds, we can use that time to work on the fixes themselves. For the Ultimate Edition, the DLCs already have a rough schedule so we’ll have good opportunities to patch the game at the same time. This doesn’t mean that we never patch the game between the DLC releases. The goal is to improve the game as quickly as possible and when we have a solid patch ready and tested it will be released.

We are aware we have a mountain to climb when it comes to delivering on the expectations but we have our ice picks ready and we are surely used to the cold. We're going to keep on climbing and you'll continue to see that progress in the game.

Why wasn’t modding support available at release?
The biggest regret we have is that modding support is not yet available for the game. We have been working on it since the beginning of the project and the intent was to have it fully ready at release. Code modding support, map, and asset editing were all planned to be fully usable and mods shareable in one place. We still believe that offering modding support makes any game better and that the tools and mods should be available for all players to enjoy at no additional cost.

During the project we faced, and still continue to face, technical difficulties that affect the speed and quality of the development, especially performance. We simply ran out of time as the focus had to shift from modding support to all hands on deck to fix the performance. All this work is still ongoing.

We’ll be communicating more on the status of the modding soon. It’s not an ideal situation but we are committed to keep working on this part of the game because it means so much to you and to us. “A Colossal Order game is a moddable one” is a promise we have made to ourselves years ago and work very hard to keep.

And we’ll top off today’s WotW with a few quick ones:
Q: More animations to come? Construction, firemen, etc
A: Yes, in the future we’ll be adding more animations to bring details and life to the cities!
Q: When will we have cycle paths on CSII?
A: I don’t know when we’ll get around to them, but Cities: Skylines II will have bikes and bike paths.
Q: Will you add more types of buildings or special buildings?
A: Yes, there will be more buildings both free and paid for the game in the future. If there is something specific you hope to see, we’d love to hear it!
Q: Will we get actual quays like the ones in CS1?
A: This sounds like it would fit great with the harbor-themed Bridges & Ports DLC coming later this year!
Q: When will we get props?
A: Adding the props to the menus for free placement in the game has come up as a request quite often. This is not something we are actively looking into at the moment, but will be added to the wishlist!
Q: When will the land value issue finally be fixed?
A: In the next update we’ll have part of it fixed, but the issues that are tied to the economy will take a bit longer to be resolved still.
Q: Will there be more biomes like wetlands/jungle or more desert like Texas?
A: Yes, we plan to add more maps with different biomes and also assets for you to create your own.

Thank you for all the questions, as well as the constructive criticism and feedback, it is valued and appreciated. Keep it coming! We’ll be back next week with something different: words from the art team!

Sincerely,
Mariina
 
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For as bad as the elementary school issue is at least that is something the player can solve by spamming schools. I would hope that bugs that the user can not play around such as dogs breaking public transit would have a higher priority as such bugs completely break the game.
 
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Question about collecting feedback:

Are you planning to add, or at least open to study to add some of the following features?:

- Connect paths to buildings (specially parks)
- Place decals to integrate parks and make them look better and integrated
- Make some tools to modify zoning
- Make some tools to place trees faster and easily, like lines or shapes to create parks (visually, because I guess we will have to wait to Parks DLC to create bigger and more complex function parks).

Finally, it's sad to see that props it's not in the incoming future, it could help to make better parks. I was something that was on CS1 and helped to detail areas easily and make cities look more alive.

Thanks.

+1 these are my personal bugbears with the game at the moment.

Hopefully they will be addressed in the not too distant future.
 
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No prop support planned? That's unexpected. People like to pretty up their cities with trees and the like.

Perhaps we should read that as 'expect a modder to pick that up'. Maybe.
 
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See. this is a good announcement. no defensiveness. Just transparency about current situation. for some of us, that's what we need now. I can wait. hopefully we can go back to where we were in CS1.

Might be a good idea to contract some outside help to work on performance and difficult issues. every team has its own limitation.
 
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What killed the game for me its the slow simulation speed with more than 400K pop... Ive read that the game is doing in the background alot of calculations that can be optimized. Any updates on performance updates for big cities? Last patch didnt improve anything, i have a powerful computer 7800x3d and rtx4800
 
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There are no performance issues any longer. just people with out dated hardware who think that a game designed to be relevant in 10 years should run perfectly on 5 year old kit.
FPS-wise I might agree. But there are major issues with simulation performance regardless of how beef your system is. Simulation slows to a crawl after about 250k population even on high end rigs. For less-than high end rigs, simulation performance starts to drop after 100k.
 
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Still not hearing a thing on console. Is it on track still , getting pushed back even farther than spring 24 as last updated in the fall or should it even be expected this year? No news feels like bad news.
I actually was thinking that the console releases will happen and be unveiled a few months after the modding support is added to the game later this March.
 
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While we’re receiving plenty of questions about Cities: Skylines II features, we have also received a ton of questions on topics surrounding the game. Today we’ll go over some of the difficult ones.

Are you going to address the content creators’ concerns and criticisms?
All constructive feedback that we receive is valued and very much appreciated. Thank you to those of you who tagged us and shared the content creators' videos that highlight feedback you agree with and to everyone who took part in the constructive discussions that followed. For example, Biffa and City Planner Plays released videos with useful and constructive criticism that we have gone over with the team. We’ll be addressing the feedback according to the process described below.

View attachment 1086522

Here are some examples of the smaller changes we have made since release based on your feedback:
- Added line color to passenger ships, cargo ships, and cargo train engines.
- Improved moving in pathfinding. This prevents citizens from reserving homes from disconnected buildings (Or moving into the city at all if it's not connected to an outside connection).
- Increased all emergency vehicle siren sound distances.

And I believe the more interesting part is the larger changes that we are looking into now, based on the community feedback:
- Land Value and Zone Suitability
- Education system, specifically kids and teens
- More transparency in the economic system
- Balancing subsidies and service importing
- Balancing negative happiness modifiers with lack of basic utilities (water, sewage, electricity)

How do you plan to get out of this mess? / What is in the works to fix Cities: Skylines II? / What will you do to set things right for the disaster launch of CS2?
We’d much rather be in a different position than we are in at the moment, but we cannot change the past. We’re working very hard to catch up on the missing modding support, missing platforms, the content for the Ultimate Edition, and improving the performance and fixing bugs this year. The team is divided to work on different tasks so that we’re seeing progress on all fronts and while it might not feel that it’s fast enough I can assure you we are all doing the best we can. Only time will tell if this is enough to turn things around.

There have also been many questions about the patch cadence and why we moved away from weekly patches. Weekly patches are too heavy for us to keep up with and the issues we are working on need more time than just a few hours or days to fix. We’re a small team of 30 developers and we have to plan the work in a way that creates the fastest results. So instead of spending a big part of the week working on the build deliveries and QA rounds, we can use that time to work on the fixes themselves. For the Ultimate Edition, the DLCs already have a rough schedule so we’ll have good opportunities to patch the game at the same time. This doesn’t mean that we never patch the game between the DLC releases. The goal is to improve the game as quickly as possible and when we have a solid patch ready and tested it will be released.

We are aware we have a mountain to climb when it comes to delivering on the expectations but we have our ice picks ready and we are surely used to the cold. We're going to keep on climbing and you'll continue to see that progress in the game.

Why wasn’t modding support available at release?
The biggest regret we have is that modding support is not yet available for the game. We have been working on it since the beginning of the project and the intent was to have it fully ready at release. Code modding support, map, and asset editing were all planned to be fully usable and mods shareable in one place. We still believe that offering modding support makes any game better and that the tools and mods should be available for all players to enjoy at no additional cost.

During the project we faced, and still continue to face, technical difficulties that affect the speed and quality of the development, especially performance. We simply ran out of time as the focus had to shift from modding support to all hands on deck to fix the performance. All this work is still ongoing.

We’ll be communicating more on the status of the modding soon. It’s not an ideal situation but we are committed to keep working on this part of the game because it means so much to you and to us. “A Colossal Order game is a moddable one” is a promise we have made to ourselves years ago and work very hard to keep.

And we’ll top off today’s WotW with a few quick ones:
Q: More animations to come? Construction, firemen, etc
A: Yes, in the future we’ll be adding more animations to bring details and life to the cities!
Q: When will we have cycle paths on CSII?
A: I don’t know when we’ll get around to them, but Cities: Skylines II will have bikes and bike paths.
Q: Will you add more types of buildings or special buildings?
A: Yes, there will be more buildings both free and paid for the game in the future. If there is something specific you hope to see, we’d love to hear it!
Q: Will we get actual quays like the ones in CS1?
A: This sounds like it would fit great with the harbor-themed Bridges & Ports DLC coming later this year!
Q: When will we get props?
A: Adding the props to the menus for free placement in the game has come up as a request quite often. This is not something we are actively looking into at the moment, but will be added to the wishlist!
Q: When will the land value issue finally be fixed?
A: In the next update we’ll have part of it fixed, but the issues that are tied to the economy will take a bit longer to be resolved still.
Q: Will there be more biomes like wetlands/jungle or more desert like Texas?
A: Yes, we plan to add more maps with different biomes and also assets for you to create your own.

Thank you for all the questions, as well as the constructive criticism and feedback, it is valued and appreciated. Keep it coming! We’ll be back next week with something different: words from the art team!

Sincerely,
Mariina
Thank you for listening. This is definitely good progress. And I'm very glad to hear that animations will be implemented (come back) :)
I know the difficulty-issue has been discussed before (you can't go bankrupt) but since it was left out on this QA, will it be handled in the near future or rather treated as a Long-term "goal"?

Also, I can only encourage to keep up a Log of QA so that not the same questions/concerns/feedbacks are posted over and over again. Maybe at the end of each WoW post?

I do have to mention though that I believe the core community would still appreciate some sort of showing responsibility for the launch. It is known that "expectations" or rather promised features weren't delivered as announced. Maybe a "forgiveness"-asset (one free DLC? A special building that will remind us of this "redemption-ark" aka a monument?) would do the job. And of course not repeating the same mistake in the future.
That would not only show us that you understand us the community but it would also give credit to your Dev for the hard work they're facing right now and will for the next whole year.

Thank You for the WoW. Please ignore toxic comments
Best,
A player of your community
 
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@co_martsu

Q: When will we have cycle paths on CSII?
A: I don’t know when we’ll get around to them, but Cities: Skylines II will have bikes and bike paths.

When the team gets around to this point to implement bike paths, please also take a look at being able to create custom paths connecting to parks, so all the paths (pedestrian paths and bike paths) works the same as they go through the assets.

See. this is a good announcement. no defensiveness. Just transparency about current situation. for some of us, that's what we need now. I can wait. hopefully we can go back to where we were in CS1.

Might be a good idea to contract some outside help to work on performance and difficult issues. every team has its own limitation.

I really hope that Paradox Interactive can provide the help fund to CO a bit more, so that CO can use the funds for more contract work to help out.
 
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No prop support planned? That's unexpected. People like to pretty up their cities with trees and the like.

A mod has already made it possible (but mods aren't officially supported), but I agree that this should be planned already and it's an easy deployment. As someone who doesn't like to play with mods, it really should be included in the base game. It's an easy win for CO, in my opinion. I don't want to see this ability end up like parking lots in CS1, implemented toward the EoL for the product.
 
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A mod has already made it possible (but mods aren't officially supported), but I agree that this should be planned already and it's an easy deployment. As someone who doesn't like to play with mods, it really should be included in the base game. It's an easy win for CO, in my opinion. I don't want to see this ability end up like parking lots in CS1, implemented toward the EoL for the product.

It's probably on the low priority list (wishlist) right now for CO, so they will eventually get to this after everything is settled in.

Q: When will we get props?
A: Adding the props to the menus for free placement in the game has come up as a request quite often. This is not something we are actively looking into at the moment, but will be added to the wishlist!
 
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Excellent update, this gave me hope. Glad you're able to share concrete details now, and address these long-standing issues! Good luck climbing the mountain!

Nice to hear some "company thinking". This game, is after all, your vision and your work. How well that fits into to players expectations is a difficult thing, but like Diana said in her video "my expectations are my problem".

Some, let's say less experienced people, still don't understand the basic rule of running a business: You create a product that YOU can stand by and believe in, not something that is a mixed collection of customer's expectations and wishes. YOU identify a need for a certain product in the market and YOU make a product that you think will fill the gap. If enough people agree, it will do that. If not, then it won't. That's the reason why we got so many different brands and products in the first place and customers choose the one that fits their expectations.

It's very simple, but for some reason, to a part of this community, very hard to understand. It was very clearly stated that C:S2 will be a total areqrite based on CO:s vision on what THEY wanted to do, and not a sequel to C:S1.

So ones more: player's expectations are players own problem.
I've seen very few people complain about CO's vision for CO2. We're unhappy that it was released (quite likely because of a decision from PDX, not CO) way too early, while it was still in a very unfinished state.
 
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Thank you for finally publicating a good WotW. It was a sweet surprise. You treated the community fairly and the community responded the same way. Hopefully it is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

Also: we understand you cannot post updates weekly, however there are some searious issues that would need to be treated immediately (freezes and crashes).
 
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Q: Will we get actual quays like the ones in CS1?
A: This sounds like it would fit great with the harbor-themed Bridges & Ports DLC coming later this year!

Are they going to be included as free with the DLC release or will they be a paid option?

I honestly cannot pay for a DLC right now when the main game is unplayable. These should have been included in the base game as should have a lot of the CS1 features. Why did CS2 not inherit all of the features of the CS1 game+ DLC?

A true upgrade to the CS1 legacy would have inherited all of the previous features and then built upon those to add even greater features, but asking me to pay for another DLC when I'm already waiting for the game to be fixed is a bit anti-consumer.
 
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I honestly cannot pay for a DLC right now when the main game is unplayable. These should have been included in the base game as should have a lot of the CS1 features. Why did CS2 not inherit all of the features of the CS1 game+ DLC?
Free DLCs can also be called "Milestones". CO hasn't hit the first milestone, which is modding support, so let them be. Right now, we need to wait on more information before hearing whether quays are free or not.
 
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We are aware we have a mountain to climb when it comes to delivering on the expectations but we have our ice picks ready and we are surely used to the cold. We're going to keep on climbing and you'll continue to see that progress in the game.
This WotW was particularly great. I was actually worried about the effects of the agressiveness of some players in the integrity of the developers team, and I'm so glad to know that you are staying strong and haven't given up. BTW the news about the bikes, animations and map creation are super exciting! Thank you for the update and for all the hard work:D
 
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