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CO Word of the Week #5

This week I’ll keep things brief and focus on what’s happening on modding. As suspected, modders wait for no-one and they have already achieved really cool stuff like maps and code mods which is amazing!

Cities: Skylines II release build included an unfinished version of the Editor and it didn’t take long for it to be found. The modders took almost no time to figure out how they could create maps and started to advance the Editor tools to their liking. Again, just like with the first Cities game I am astonished by the effort you are all putting into modding the game. I love it!

However, I must ask for caution because any work done with the hidden unfinished Editor may break since there are still going to be changes to it. This is not to discourage you from working on your mods but rather to try and openly share what to expect. Some of the most notable changes will be in how the maps are saved so we can’t guarantee the maps saved on an unfinished version of the Editor will work with the game in the long run. We’re currently testing the map Editor and there are already changes to the water placement and landscaping tools so any tools made touching upon these are also likely to break. The Editor will be released early next year, so until then don’t let that stop you, just be aware that you may need to rework some things later on.

To further help the modding community we’ve updated the wiki to include more information on asset creation. You will notice there are no instructions for the level of detail models. This is because we’re working towards an automated system where you wouldn’t have to worry about the LODs unless you actually want to make them by hand (or the complexity of the asset requires it). Any other information will be added to the wiki as it becomes available.

We would like to invite all mod, map, and asset creators to join early access to the Editor for a few weeks before its release so you can see what it is like, test out your already created mods, and share your feedback with us. If you have experience creating mods for Cities: Skylines please sign up here.

I can’t wait to see all the things coming for Cities: Skylines II from the modding community!

And finally a quick update on the higher priority items mentioned last week: Performance improvements are on their way as we’re reducing the cost of rendering geometry. Bug fixing is going forward nicely and the mail and export bugs are getting sorted out. We are also working on a fix for some achievements not unlocking, statistics bugs, and a taxi getting stuck because someone left their child in it. Parenting is hard. A full list of fixes is introduced with each patch, so check the patch notes if you are interested in more details!

You may expect a bigger patch coming out in December before we go on a holiday break in three weeks. During the break, there are no patches and limited responses from the team while we take time off work. But until then, we’re working our hardest!

Sincerely,
Mariina
 
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I'm not sure why people are so concerned about performance. This is not an FPS, don't need 120fps.
It's perfectly playable on my 1050ti from I don't even remember how many years ago. I'm sure anything newer won't have much problems running it. It's funny how people with 4090s are complaining when my 1050ti is running it
(Not mentioning cpu as in my case it's gpu bound)
The reason is because different people have different requirements to say "it is running". What you call "it is running" with your 1050ti, I assume in 1080p with low settings and <30 FPS, would mean for me "it is unplayable and looks horrible". Simply because I buy my gaming PC to play in 4k and "High" settings, and while I can accept playing CS2 with 30 FPS in worst case, I would much prefer at least 50 FPS because for MY eyes that looks much better than 30 FPS (yes, I know, for YOUR eyes that is not important, for mine it is and it makes a significant difference FOR ME).

So, no, your 1050ti cannot run CS2 in a way that I personally would consider to be acceptable, not even close. Even my 3080 12GB cannot run CS2 in 4k with a 100k city with a constant > 25 FPS, so I have to play in 1440p at the moment, which is something I otherwise never do for any other game. And I don't like it because on a 120" projection screen you see a big difference between 1440p and 4k.

That means FOR ME that I require CO to deliver still a lot of performance improvements until the game finally runs in the way I personally expect it to run. It is the only game in my collection that I currently cannot run in 4k.
 
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At this point anyone buying a game on release or pre-ordering has to accept their own fault. Companies no longer care about releasing games that are ready, they care about releasing games based on when their marketing campaign has generated enough pre-orders to match whatever corporate earnings quarter they have targeted in order to win their executive bonuses.

Cyberpunk, No Man's Sky, even the "Game of the Year" BG3 released way too early (requiring 4000+ fixes post-launch) with cut content.

Paradox/CO even warned users about what the state of CS2 would be, telling everyone they had "not achieved the benchmark we targeted”. That a company had to come out and admit that a week before launch, combined with the huge upgrade in system requirements should have been a massive red flag to anyone who thought about buying the game.

They were talking about performance.

Not that 50% of the "simulation" is not working, working faulty or being back-upped by "Failsafe"-Code. That´s a big difference for me. And they don´t publish the ruleset they implemented, which means they are hiding stuff they know that doesnt work well. Like "what are the reasons the industry switches to build storage buildings" etc.

Well done. Marketing at it´s best.
 
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Thanks for all the feedback. When it comes to the gameplay and simulation we set goals for the game and we have reached those goals.
Surely there are issues that we're looking into and fixing bugs, but the overall gameplay experience is what we aimed for. Cities: Skylines II is the better game compared to the first one. If you dislike the simulation, this game just might not be for you. If there is a bug that ruins it for you there's a good chance it's fixed sometime in the future. Games are a subjective experience and it is impossible to please everyone. There's a bugfixing patch on its way soon however, so hopefully we'll be able to resolve at least some of the issues that may be a deal breaker for some. We thank you for your patience!

For clarity the above is for the simulation and gameplay. The performance is not where we want it to be and we are hard at work to improve it. This is also the reason the consoles were delayed. The modding support is an important part of a Colossal Order game, so it will also be rolling out as soon as possible.
We are disappointed we couldn't make these aspects of the game ready for you on time, but we refuse to give up. The missing features and platforms will be available in the upcoming months.
 
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Thanks for all the feedback. When it comes to the gameplay and simulation we set goals for the game and we have reached those goals.
Surely there are issues that we're looking into and fixing bugs, but the overall gameplay experience is what we aimed for. Cities: Skylines II is the better game compared to the first one. If you dislike the simulation, this game just might not be for you. If there is a bug that ruins it for you there's a good chance it's fixed sometime in the future. Games are a subjective experience and it is impossible to please everyone. There's a bugfixing patch on its way soon however, so hopefully we'll be able to resolve at least some of the issues that may be a deal breaker for some. We thank you for your patience!

For clarity the above is for the simulation and gameplay. The performance is not where we want it to be and we are hard at work to improve it. This is also the reason the consoles were delayed. The modding support is an important part of a Colossal Order game, so it will also be rolling out as soon as possible.
We are disappointed we couldn't make these aspects of the game ready for you on time, but we refuse to give up. The missing features and platforms will be available in the upcoming months.
Thank you for the frequent updates @co_martsu We appreciate the effort CO has been putting into the patches.

Will there be patches with quality of life improvements based on suggestions from the forum section, or is the plan to release bug fixes first and then focus on DLCs? (After the modding support and editor has been released).
 
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Thanks for all the feedback. When it comes to the gameplay and simulation we set goals for the game and we have reached those goals.
Surely there are issues that we're looking into and fixing bugs, but the overall gameplay experience is what we aimed for. Cities: Skylines II is the better game compared to the first one. If you dislike the simulation, this game just might not be for you. If there is a bug that ruins it for you there's a good chance it's fixed sometime in the future. Games are a subjective experience and it is impossible to please everyone. There's a bugfixing patch on its way soon however, so hopefully we'll be able to resolve at least some of the issues that may be a deal breaker for some. We thank you for your patience!

For clarity the above is for the simulation and gameplay. The performance is not where we want it to be and we are hard at work to improve it. This is also the reason the consoles were delayed. The modding support is an important part of a Colossal Order game, so it will also be rolling out as soon as possible.
We are disappointed we couldn't make these aspects of the game ready for you on time, but we refuse to give up. The missing features and platforms will be available in the upcoming months.
Makes me wonder if the failsafe mechanisms work as intended now. I'm enjoying the game as it is, but I also would like to tweak them to bring more challenge.
 
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Makes me wonder if the failsafe mechanisms work as intended now. I'm enjoying the game as it is, but I also would like to tweak them to bring more challenge.
Some of us don't like those so called faisafes but I totally understand why they are in. This game is aimed to be accessible for everyone, also for more casual players. I'm more than sure that there will be mod or mods that removes these failsafes and those of us who wish to have more realistic or more difficult simulation will have it in the near future.
 
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Will there be patches with quality of life improvements based on suggestions from the forum section, or is the plan to release bug fixes first and then focus on DLCs? (After the modding support and editor has been released).
We simply haven't had the time to look into the suggestions yet, but we will after we're in a place where we feel we can start thinking about new content and features. Getting the community feedback is exactly the way we love creating games: hearing your ideas and getting inspired by it.
Makes me wonder if the failsafe mechanisms work as intended now. I'm enjoying the game as it is, but I also would like to tweak them to bring more challenge.
Some of us don't like those so called faisafes but I totally understand why they are in. This game is aimed to be accessible for everyone, also for more casual players. I'm more than sure that there will be mod or mods that removes these failsafes and those of us who wish to have more realistic or more difficult simulation will have it in the near future.
We will be evaluating the difficulty level and the failsafes based on the feedback we've gotten. It's like you say, we want the game to be easy to get into but it should also offer enough challenge. We just need to properly evaluate if the problem is rather how information is displayed, if any bugs are affecting the outcome or is a failsafe out of balance. We'll be listening to you and also running play tests to make sure we're on the right track.

And I'm sure there's going to be an Iceland mod where the system is just allowed to collapse and there's no government subsidies.
^^Hint to all the modders out there: this sounds like it would be a popular mod :D
 
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Thanks for all the feedback. When it comes to the gameplay and simulation we set goals for the game and we have reached those goals.
Surely there are issues that we're looking into and fixing bugs, but the overall gameplay experience is what we aimed for. Cities: Skylines II is the better game compared to the first one. If you dislike the simulation, this game just might not be for you. If there is a bug that ruins it for you there's a good chance it's fixed sometime in the future. Games are a subjective experience and it is impossible to please everyone. There's a bugfixing patch on its way soon however, so hopefully we'll be able to resolve at least some of the issues that may be a deal breaker for some. We thank you for your patience!

For clarity the above is for the simulation and gameplay. The performance is not where we want it to be and we are hard at work to improve it. This is also the reason the consoles were delayed. The modding support is an important part of a Colossal Order game, so it will also be rolling out as soon as possible.
We are disappointed we couldn't make these aspects of the game ready for you on time, but we refuse to give up. The missing features and platforms will be available in the upcoming months.
OK @co_martsu, thanks at least for confirming what I've been thinking - the game's not really for me.

Now, if only I'd realised that before I laid out £90 for it, I'd be a bit less aggrieved at being taken in by the marketing "if you can dream it, you can build it" spiel.
 
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We simply haven't had the time to look into the suggestions yet, but we will after we're in a place where we feel we can start thinking about new content and features. Getting the community feedback is exactly the way we love creating games: hearing your ideas and getting inspired by it.


We will be evaluating the difficulty level and the failsafes based on the feedback we've gotten. It's like you say, we want the game to be easy to get into but it should also offer enough challenge. We just need to properly evaluate if the problem is rather how information is displayed, if any bugs are affecting the outcome or is a failsafe out of balance. We'll be listening to you and also running play tests to make sure we're on the right track.

And I'm sure there's going to be an Iceland mod where the system is just allowed to collapse and there's no government subsidies.
^^Hint to all the modders out there: this sounds like it would be a popular mod :D
One issue that is frequently occurring and has been reported by many players is the problem of "high rents" and industries struggling to find enough employees, despite the presence of schools throughout the city. These pop-up notifications appear frequently in the game. Additionally, there is a significant demand for commercial areas, but when this demand is met, pop-ups indicating "insufficient customers" appear everywhere. Are there plans to address and adjust this balance in the upcoming patch? Another concern is the difficulty in creating low-density residences of size 2x2, as sometimes only children seem to be living in these residences, leading to the appearance of "high rents," as it appears that residents are not paying their rent.
 
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I hope there will be some sort of "hard mode" which disables subsidies and stops services from other cities reaching my city, unless I sign a contract with them.

And please, do have a look at the traffic AI. I know it is very Tampere-like right now, but really doesn't need to be :) It causes too much traffic jams because of how vehicles change lane (stop totally then stutter back and forth when trying to move forwards). Vehicles also heistate way too much and don't react to open spots fast enough. Plus the lane connections in roundabouts don't make sense most of the time forcing vehicles to change lanes within roundabout and due to previously mentioned behavour, ultimately they jam the roundabout and mess is ready.
 
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One issue that is frequently occurring and has been reported by many players is the problem of "high rents" and industries struggling to find enough employees, despite the presence of schools throughout the city. These pop-up notifications appear frequently in the game. Additionally, there is a significant demand for commercial areas, but when this demand is met, pop-ups indicating "insufficient customers" appear everywhere. Are there plans to address and adjust this balance in the upcoming patch? Another concern is the difficulty in creating low-density residences of size 2x2, as sometimes only children seem to be living in these residences, leading to the appearance of "high rents," as it appears that residents are not paying their rent.

High rent is usually caused by student or elder people living there and can't pay the rent due to no income. Build low rent housing for these to solve the problem. (the stuff with its own zoning type)

Not enough customers is caused by lack of goods to sell, typically food or beverages. Counter-intuitive, but that's the way it is. And in theory, when shop is empty, there is no customers either :)
 
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High rent is usually caused by student or elder people living there and can't pay the rent due to no income. Build low rent housing for these to solve the problem. (the stuff with its own zoning type)

Not enough customers is caused by lack of goods to sell, typically food or beverages. Counter-intuitive, but that's the way it is. And in theory, when shop is empty, there is no customers either :)
The issue lies in the fact that elderly people, children, and students continue to occupy low-density housing despite the availability of affordable rents. Additionally, the industry has no demand, while the commercial demand is at 100%. However, numerous stores are complaining about a lack of customers. Many bugs have been reported regarding these issues, and I believe there is an imbalance that requires review and adjustment.

For example, some:

Too much commercial demand:

Hight rent:

Traffic:

Other bugs mentioned here:
 
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Now, if only I'd realised that before I laid out £90 for it, I'd be a bit less aggrieved at being taken in by the marketing "if you can dream it, you can build it" spiel.
Out of curiosity what specifically in the building part is lacking, is it the amount of content or the tools or the simulation and how it behaves? Of course the marketing line is rather grand and the game does not yet have the same quantity of content than CS1 has. You may have shared the points that you don't enjoy in the game already so no need to repeat yourself only to spoil my curiosity if you don't feel like it!

When it comes to the bugs reported we have the team looking into them and I think some of you may find the next patch fixing some of the things bugging you. Not all, but some.
 
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We simply haven't had the time to look into the suggestions yet, but we will after we're in a place where we feel we can start thinking about new content and features. Getting the community feedback is exactly the way we love creating games: hearing your ideas and getting inspired by it.


We will be evaluating the difficulty level and the failsafes based on the feedback we've gotten. It's like you say, we want the game to be easy to get into but it should also offer enough challenge. We just need to properly evaluate if the problem is rather how information is displayed, if any bugs are affecting the outcome or is a failsafe out of balance. We'll be listening to you and also running play tests to make sure we're on the right track.

And I'm sure there's going to be an Iceland mod where the system is just allowed to collapse and there's no government subsidies.
^^Hint to all the modders out there: this sounds like it would be a popular mod :D
The idea of a hard mode setting as a possibility sounded really good. Something where people can reduce milestone rewards, an option to make terraforming have cost, subsidies on/off. Could make those settings modular as well to allow players to have more freedom to balance the sim as they like. Right now after most people get a city going they never need to think about money again.

There's a lot of nice menus and statistics to dive into to try and balance your budget to make sure you're in the green, but there's so much "free money" it doesn't feel as pressing as it should. Basically the sim is great, it's just too easy for players who want to look into all the metrics and balance their budget. Like why worry about tourism income or exports when I have a fortune from just mindlessly building. I think most people asking for these settings want to feel like looking into all the statistics and menus the game offers matters a bit more and money is the biggest issue there

A good simulation loop is like - my city grew why am I suddenly in the red now? -pulls up menus, discovers tourism isn't meeting demand anymore and I need more hotels- Place more hotels - time goes by and now I'm back in the green. The game already basically does this with all its systems but you're so rich most of the time, you never need to get sucked into that loop and problem solve
 
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Out of curiosity what specifically in the building part is lacking, is it the amount of content or the tools or the simulation and how it behaves? Of course the marketing line is rather grand and the game does not yet have the same quantity of content than CS1 has. You may have shared the points that you don't enjoy in the game already so no need to repeat yourself only to spoil my curiosity if you don't feel like it!

When it comes to the bugs reported we have the team looking into them and I think some of you may find the next patch fixing some of the things bugging you. Not all, but some.

One thing are missing features from CS1. Well - that was expected and no problem.

The other thing is playing around with expectations while knowing that CO is far - very far - away from meeting them with the release of this faulty, and in almost every part broken product. You just have to dig a little bit deeper into the "simulation" to find things that are not "buggy", but fundementally broken, hence the problems with the performance.

I certainly don´t like to response like that - but your post shows that nothing was learned from CS1 and that quality control either has failed, or that the decision to release this game was a decision on the back - and right in the face - of every customer that has preordered or bought this game.

End of story.
 
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