CO Word of the Week #9

[PatMaus]

Thanks for the update. Good to know that the upcoming patch will at least attempt to solve the worst and totally game breaking issues.

 

[zielenski]

I'm very upset by this post. It feels as if CO does not play the game?

Every city I've tried to start has been plagued by game breaking bugs: most recently land value and high tax. I have to open my game in a VM every 20 minutes of play time to reset land value because my city doesn't grow (mac user usually on GeForce which recently blocked developer mode).

Now I hear there is one more patch coming out for the next few months and it fixes very minor things. How can CO think that a single patch release for the next few months is sufficient? How about get someone to spend 5 minutes making the stats take the full width of the info view? Is that really that difficult?

Please focus on fixing your game Every patch and dev diary that comes out I've held on hope that soon the game will be fun. I like tinkering with CS on my breaks during work; but I'm starting to feel like a sucker, and it doesn't seem like it'll get better. I will take a hint and find something else to do.

 

[avguy2]

Disappointing, but totally expected. Judging by the reactions in here I'm not sure your communication strategy is working so far. With every WOW you're cofirming a little bit more of what some of us said from the beginning about what rough state the game is actually in (development wise). You dug yourself quite the hole with this release and I wonder if you can ever get out.

 

[AaronTuckwell]

I mean, when we speak our minds, we get told we are a toxic community.. and while I understand why we must exercise restraint with our responses it is also equally important for the team here to know how badly they have collectively messed this up. This game was not ready for launch and for whatever reason, usually financially, they were forced to release an unfinished sub-par game that they then released a game breaking patch for before disappearing for Christmas. This announcement then comes out of the woodwork upon their return but no-one is allowed to say "while the team are clearly working hard in the background, this mis-management isn't news and the game should have been delayed". It's an ambitious game at the core - people would understand if it needed more time to cook. As it stands, Transport Fever 2 looks and performs better than Cities 2, despite being built in the same engine and is 4 years old now. Right now, Cities Skylines 2 is in the same bucket as Rollercoaster Tycoon World; and that isn't a bucket you want to be in. You are also damaging your commercial shelf-life with a bad launch. At what point do you just decide it isn't worth it and release Cities 3 because 2 is too broken to fix and you've burnt through all the good-will? The conspiracist in me thinks that another studio is about to release a competitor city builder and the publisher wanted to cash in on the early release...
Kudos to the team for persevering in the face of back-lash, though. That's certainly commendable (and also no easy).

 

[barty911]

Thanks for the update - would love to know more about the specifics of the issue affecting Asset imports, mainly just out of technical curiosity. I had previously assumed that the mechanism for asset imports would be the same that the CO team uses to import vanilla assets into the game.

If we are potentially expecting a delay to a large part of the modding functionality, would it not make sense to temporarily enable Steam workshop support (given the console player support was one of the main reasons for a proprietary mod platform anyway) until these issues are resolved? I appreciate that might be easier said than done.

 

[The Autobahn Dude]

Welp, thanks for the update, even though it's kinda ooof
So, do we have another Cyberpunk 2077 situation at hand?
Rushed at first, polished to an amazing game later?
I see lots of potential in the base (in rough state that is) and tbh, I cant really go back to the first part.
Even with my lower end setting (CPU even short under min spec) the game runs quite alright for me and my 200k city, so I'm gonna keep playing-

Look, I know being a software developer is a thankless job, but I really wonder if the decision to halt development for around a month (correct me if I'm wrong) was a great decision. Kinda feels like it complicated stuff for you even more (and for us)

Props to the team to preserve face though, it's not an easy task and deserves my respect

 

[homerCCCP]

I would like to know why we go from many small patches to less big patches.

Basically this is an understandable approach to reduce amount of regressions. However the last patch which was supposed to be a "big" patch did not feel bigger than the "small" patches before. Now we are in a situation where the last patch was long ago, while the state of the game is still far from where it should be.


Sometimes small changes can have a big impact. So I would prefer more smaller patches and balance changes that should be fairly easy to implement. I don't mind if the smaller fixes are released as Beta and I would just need to tick a Box in steam.

A higher patch frequency would attract the playerbase to keep playing the game and at the same time allow the devs to get feedback faster. I know that many players/customers hate to be mis-used as beta testers, but others like to do it, so why not making beta releases of new patches and Show everybody that you are in active exchange with the community.
Talking about things that will happen in two or three or even more months isn't very thrilling...

 

[mdtrx]

Sounds like you really haven't enough hands on bug fixing. And hard to train more when the cat is out.
So one patch soon (a week or two?) and another in March.

Keep on trucking.

 

[A lowborn Emperor]

They mentioned "Finnish Fall" because in previous posts, people were stating that their references to Seasons was unclear because the Northern and Southern Hemispheres have different seasons.
Also, Autumn in the Northern Hemisphere is late-September to late-December.

Heaven forbid they actually use a universal period label like Q3 that means the same all around the globe

 

[DerFremde]

Not good enough, sorry.

 

[timfrombriz]

Modding, Console Release... a sprinkle of bug fixes on the side.

Dissapointed polishing the current game (adding all the missing textures/animation, fixing the thousands of bugs reported in the forum and balancing issues) is not the first priority before slapping everything else on top. Really dissapointed its gone this way, especially given the wide discussion of this by the community in last weeks wotw which has gone on deaf ears.

One more patch before the end of March release. Not much to look forward to here.

Given the release number is .19f from .18f, it appears its only gone through one QA round, and the number of bug fixes in the next build will be barely enough to make the game engaging still. Im not a city painter, thats all there is in this game currently, playing as an economic/business/transport/traffic managment sim, its not there.

For me, its time to put this game down and look for my gaming fix elsewhere. Prepurchased CS2 Ultimate Edition, nothing of the extras interest me at all with the game as it stands and where its going.

Im sorry Im so negative, but thats the truth. Im beyond dissapointed with the direction and speed here.

 

[[Delta ²k5]]

Welp, thanks for the update, even though it's kinda ooof
So, do we have another Cyberpunk 2077 situation at hand?
Rushed at first, polished to an amazing game later?
I see lots of potential in the base (in rough state that is) and tbh, I cant really go back to the first part.
Even with my lower end setting (CPU even short under min spec) the game runs quite alright for me and my 200k city, so I'm gonna keep playing-

Kinda. The thing is a bit different than on something like CP2077 as it's way more complex on a simulation side of things. CP2077 is pretty much straight forward as besides some vehicles and pedestrians within a really limited range everything is scripted.

On C:S2 everything is pretty much dynamic so there is much more potential to break something and much more time needed to polish stuff. However, ofc, if most things are polished the game will shine - that's basically granted as there is no other city builder around which comes close to this level. As you already pointed out the game runs fine (not perfect) for many players already. Some different hardware combinations and driver versions might currently be an issue which has to be found and patched.

Look, I know being a software developer is a thankless job, but I really wonder if the decision to halt development for around a month (correct me if I'm wrong) was a great decision.

It's not up to "us" to decide when people are allowed to take their time off. If they are already exhausted it's better to step away, get a clear mind again and start working recharged. Some of the team might also not have taken full 4 weeks off and instead still have started earlier again, however it's a game we talk about and while it is not convincing for players to wait for some fixes it's still not a life threating situation. As you compared to CP2077: CDPR actually let people work in crunch before initial release and it did certainly not make things better.

 

[teddy202]

Welcome back to the weekly update on what’s happening at Colossal Order and what to expect for Cities: Skylines II. Last week we had in-depth conversations with our publisher Paradox Interactive on the priorities and goals for Cities: Skylines II for 2024. There’s really nothing new when it comes to the previous statements: Modding support, console versions, and the Expansion Pass content are to be worked on and released during the year. From the great discussions emerged an important decision however: the modding support will roll out gradually as the features enter beta and we won’t wait for all of them to be fully completed before setting them live.

What this means in practice is that we’ll start giving the mod creators early access to the modding tools as soon as the code modding and Paradox Mods are ready for testing. If everything goes as planned a Public Beta version of the code modding and Paradox Mods will be available a couple of weeks after that. We’ll continue to work on the Map and Asset editing as they require a bit more attention still. Map editing is expected to be available sooner than the Asset editing, but at this time it comes down to iteration time and the feedback we’re getting on the usability of the tool. Asset editing is unfortunately suffering from technical issues and as long as players are unable to save and share the assets there’s no point publicly releasing the tools. We do have a plan for the fixes, but it might take months in the worst case I’m afraid.

To summarize on the priorities of the modding support:

1. Public Beta version of code modding and Paradox Mods will be available in the live build by the end of March
2. Public Beta version of Map editing available in the live build together with code modding or soon after
3. Public Beta version of Asset editing to be announced, only after the technical issues are sorted can we roll out the tool
4. Continue to work on the modding support and get out of the Beta stage during the Finnish fall.

We’ll keep resources on the modding support throughout the entire lifecycle of Cities: Skylines II as we know there are many improvements and feature requests we can work on to help the modders achieve their goals even after the initial Beta release.

The work on the console versions is ongoing and while gated by the modding support we’re making progress. We’re not committing to any timelines as there are too many unknowns at this time, but we’ll keep you updated and will communicate the moment we have something to share. For the Expansion Pass, the artists have the Beach Properties content almost ready and we’re on track for its release.

Before those bigger releases, we’ll have one more patch coming out. After this, we’ll include the bug fixes and performance improvements in the releases to reduce the amount of individual patches. Patch 1.0.19 is going through its first round in QA at the moment and will be released after it passes the checks. Full patch notes will be released on the day the patch goes live, but you can expect fixes for stuck maintenance vehicles and an additional fix for abandoned dogs, who will now be returned to their homes. While the work still continues on the land value, we have an improvement so pollution properly affects the value. And last, but definitely not least, we’re currently testing a fix for the tax bug with crazy high or negative numbers.

Keep following our social channels for news about the patch release and hope you enjoy the game in the meantime. Have a lovely week!

Sincerely,
Mariina

Mariina, thank you for the update.

I think it’s time to seriously consider partial refunds for those who bought the expansion pass with the game. I was willing to wait several months, but this is getting to be unacceptable.

I’ve been telling myself that it was Paradox who forced the game to be released when it was. Certainly CO knew what state the game was in… We will never know one way or another, but if it was CO’s decision to release the game in the state it was, that is deeply concerning to me. I remain concerned.

Back when we saw YouTubers’ first gameplay videos, I predicted backlash would be bad, but I’m not sure I was ready for it to be this bad, and for this long. I am very worried about the state of this franchise and the community.

 

[ImanIdgit]

Heaven forbid they actually use a universal period label like Q3 that means the same all around the globe

Actually, Q3 could mean different things depending on the Company. I know of thousands of companies whose Q3 is not during "Finnish Fall".
When I saw "Finnish Fall", I immediately knew what it meant as far as the Gregorian Calendar (Which other posters have also complained about/mentioned).
While I would prefer them using exact months of the (Gregorian Calendar) year, "Finnish Fall" does the trick and should be the least of your worries right now.

 

[Momento Mori]

Dont wanna be rude, but why I would be interessed in mods and assets if the game slows into a crawl and becomes unplayable? No fixes for this?

 

[pedro_pujols]

We're working to fix the technical issues with the asset import, but it may take us months to resolve, which means anything that relies on the asset import will wait for it. Of course, we hope to resolve the issues sooner, but we want to be honest with you and not set too high expectations. Unfortunately, these issues are not easy to solve, but we'll get there as soon as we can.

If we won't have custom assets all these months, can you please help us having some essential assets that are missing in the base game?

To mention some:
- Rural train station or single track train station
- Elevated train and metro station
- Double-way single metro track (like the one for trains)

 

[A lowborn Emperor]

Actually, Q3 could mean different things depending on the Company. I know of thousands of companies whose Q3 is not during "Finnish Fall".

Q3 generally relates to the calendar year, while fall is an Americanism, where I come from we say Autumn.

While I would prefer them using exact months of the (Gregorian Calendar) year

woah there, slow them horses, whoever thought using actual months would be a good thing

should be the least of your worries right now.

Making a comment does not equate to a worry/concern/issue js

 

[AGayRobot420]

So what you're saying is that this game won't be finished for another year? I feel very ripped off. Modding support and the map/asset editor are the only features this game needs to be considered complete, in my opinion, and they won't be ready for months still? Is there anyway I can get a refund and maybe buy it again in a year when the game's actually, you know... finished?

 

[Krazel]

Modding, Console Release... a sprinkle of bug fixes on the side.

Dissapointed polishing the current game (adding all the missing textures/animation, fixing the thousands of bugs reported in the forum and balancing issues) is not the first priority before slapping everything else on top. Really dissapointed its gone this way, especially given the wide discussion of this by the community in last weeks wotw which has gone on deaf ears.

One more patch before the end of March release. Not much to look forward to here.

This. I'm not a city painter (although I enjoy it), I want a simulation. I want to manage a city and all that comes with it.

The game is riddled with many serious algorithmic bugs that affect core functions of the game. Widely reported bugs such as taxation glitch, which causes unexpected income and deficit spikes that breaks the gameplay. It's unfathomable to me how fixing the game's simulation systems are not top priority. If those don't work nothing else will! Modding just admits that you need other people to fix the game.

While it is understandable for bugs to be present in games and software, Colossal Order’s lack of urgency and genuine interest in tackling bug reports makes it just unacceptable... It’s been 3 months since launch, yet these statements from the company were deliberate in evading questions on roadmaps for bug fixes, and attempt to obfuscate users by saying that something is being worked on for the near future. Everything is just "we're working on it" or a completely movable timeframe like "Fall." Zero concrete details as has been the case for some time.

It may be well past time to use your resources to broaden your team, and enhance coverage on all aspects of your game to salvage the ailing player base. Because this will not have the support you need to keep this game alive. You're losing our trust and as you can see with a majority of these replies it's already lost to many. I hope you can win it back...

 

[Otis85402]

Just wanted to say thank you for sharing some real information with us this week. While I am not exactly thrilled at the time it's going to take I no longer am upset about the lack of communication and feel that this week's Word was a serious improvement. This week's post contained a number of tangible and actionable issues and a general overview of the priority of them.

For me personally, I am going to step away from the game until it's in a more playable state. I'll check back in each time there is a patch and see how things are, maybe the next one will solve enough issues to make the game fun for me. But if not, I will just check back next time. I have never doubted the game we all know exists underneath these bugs will come to fruition in time.

Or to put this in terms of the stages of grief:

Denial - probably when I preordered the deluxe edition of the game
Anger - The pre-Christmas patch that made the following month just awful
Bargaining - Posting in these forums hoping for an answer
Depression - The game won't be updated to a playable state in perhaps several months and that sucks
Acceptance - This is where I am now. Hope not to regress after the next patch.

PR is a thankless task and you did well this week.