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* CKII: Charlemagne Developer Diaries will be released weekly on Wednesdays from now on up to release! *

Welcome to the Charlemagne dev diaries - and above all, welcome to the 8th century!

I'm Tobias Bodlund, scripter on the Crusader Kings II team, and in this first installment of the dev diaries for CKII: Charlemagne I will be talking about the new 769 start date and how we've chosen to represent that historical period in the game.

We've added a bunch of new cultures to the game. A few of these could arguably have been present in The Old Gods already, but going back to 769 we felt we really needed to shake up the map to properly represent the changing cultural landscape of the Early Middle Ages.

sw_eur_cult.png

In Spain we have the Visigoths, and they are in the Iberian rather than the Germanic group, since the Gothic migrations are long since over and they have been living in the peninsula since the early 6th century. With time, Visigothic provinces are likely to eventually become Castilian, Catalan or Andalusian depending on location and which other religious and cultural influences they are subjected to. In northwestern Iberia we also still have the Suebi, an old Germanic people. They have their own culture shift events which may see the rise of Portuguese culture.

Looking north, we have the Franks. They are still Germanic but becoming more and more latinized. You will see them slowly turning into something we call "French"...

Other new cultures you will find are Saxons, Lombards, Picts and Somali. Also, there are no Russians yet, but instead various East Slavic peoples such as the Ilmenians, Severians and Volhynians.

We've revisited cultural dynamics in some other places as well. For example, the emergence of Norman culture is now somewhat more likely than before.

Regarding religion, the old Norse religion in the game is now referred to as Germanic. We decided to do this because with the earlier start date this religion exists well beyond Norse lands (specifically, the Saxons), and the old name also sometimes caused players to confuse it with Norse culture.

Moving further south, the Ibadi faith is now its own religion and no longer a Sunni heresy.

We've also added a new pagan religion, available only in the Charlemagne start. They are the followers of the sun-god Zun, which was historically the Zunbil dynasty in Afghanistan. They start out surrounded by Muslims and Buddhists, and this should provide an interesting and possibly quite difficult start, comparable to the Jewish starts.

And where are the Jews in 769, you ask now - you will find them in Semien in Ethiopia (sometimes referred to as Beta Israel).

religion_map_persia.png

Oh, speaking of the Norse, yes... with the new start date the Viking Age hasn't begun yet. This means that the Norse will initially not be able to launch Viking expeditions overseas. This will change the early game for them as they'll need to focus more on local affairs initially. Don't worry, though, a few decades in things will start happening for them and the continent will properly learn to fear the wrath of the Northmen.

Finally, let's look at some of the large empires in the 8th century:

In 769, the Byzantine Empire is embroiled in what historians call the "First Iconoclasm". This basically means that the emperor and patriarch (and most of the elite) follow the Iconoclast faith, where religious icons are condemned as idolatry much like in Islam. There is a choice for the emperor to either stick with Iconoclasm or renounce it (via a special decision).

Meanwhile, the Abbasids are the great blob of the 8th century. During this time, they historically ruled an area from the Indus in the east to the Maghreb in the west. Though "rule" is perhaps a misleading word in some cases. To reflect the fact that in reality they had limited control over many of their nominal vassals, we have made some of these areas independent in the game. But the Caliph still has plenty of de jure CBs and claims on those areas, so beware...

In Spain, Umayyad rule is fairly recently established, so you have an Arab Muslim dynasty ruling over mainly Visigothic Christian subjects.

europe_map.png

Then there is the Frankish Empire. After Pepin died, his sons Charlemagne and Carloman inherited a kind of joint kingship over the Franks, with each of them ruling directly over a portion of the kingdom. In the game, this means the two brothers each have a king title but also a claim on the other's title. With powerful neighbors such as the Lombards, the Umayyads and the pagan Saxons, things may get very interesting here.

As you can see, the world in 769 is quite different from later starts, with many period-defining events still to unfold. Things such as the Holy Roman Empire (yes, you can found it), Vikings, Normans and Russians are still unheard of. There aren't even that many Karlings yet (!).

The 8th century is a strange and wonderful place. We hope that you'll enjoy it.
 
with this start date it will be easier for pagans to reform their faith, I think that it will be almost impossible for them to do not reach the goal.
They'll probably be tweaking some religious events a bit. For one, I think that the way the map is laid out now Crusades would immediately trigger (due to pagan Saxons with holdings in Germany).
 
A region that revolted like clockwork every time the Emperor tried to say "but you are mine" doesn't look, to me, the shining example of a de-jure territory. It revolted so much that current mechanics have difficulties in represent it (5 revolts in 20 years).

I totally agree. I was responding to the other forumite though and answering his question with a strictly "show me how the HRE is nerfed" to-the-letter example.

I believe we discussed the Italian situation before and we have very close opinions - the forumite I was responding to has the notion that because the Abbassids ruled in Armenia historically in 769, they should be controlling the area in-game in 769. I stated that they were not the only situation where the historical was sacrificed for the playability ingame and as we agree the Italian de jure is an example of this as well.
 
I totally agree. I was responding to the other forumite though and answering his question with a strictly "show me how the HRE is nerfed" to-the-letter example.

I believe we discussed the Italian situation before and we have very close opinions - the forumite I was responding to has the notion that because the Abbassids ruled in Armenia historically in 769, they should be controlling the area in-game in 769. I stated that they were not the only situation where the historical was sacrificed for the playability ingame and as we agree the Italian de jure is an example of this as well.

Aaah. Ok, ok. My bad.
 
would Devs be so kind and finally add chain of events of missionary work of imperial missionaries in other realms?

For example, in 862 ruler of Great Moravia asked Byzantine Emperor for Slavic missionaries for his subjects, who hadn't understood teaching of missionaries from East Francia. saints Constantine (Cyril) and Methodius had arrived to GM 863 and had started teach new priests in slavic language. relations of GM with East Francia had decreased. Franks had made plot to remove ruler of GM and replace him by his pro-frank nephew. They had succeed and Svatopluk had forced disciples of Cyril and Methodius to flee to lake Ohrid in Macedonia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saints_Cyril_and_Methodius

I'm not one of the many eastern europe oriented forumites, but littlekubo's suggestion makes a great deal of sense historically. Maybe the chain would not always fire, but the Orthodox conversion of Russians and other Slavs should be more likely to occur than it currently does ...
 
You people wanted a DD for a unfinished DLC which is just in process... What did you expect?

Haha... you're funny. Since when did they ever provide us with a DD for a finished DLC???
 
Was this thread's title a pun on "Let's get Physical"?
 
Looking forward to a DD describing actual new mechanisms and features instead of a showcase of something that seems, atleast to me, unfinished.

how can you have Middle Francia without both western and eastern Francia ?

This.
 
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A bit disapointed with that. Im fearing that paradox makes not many new features. It would be cool when they add sea battles, but really looking for the pre-feudal mechanics. And you now, the historical error...
 
Seriously there should be no orthodox or catholics there should only be one cristianity. The schism only happens in 1054. You forgot to do this in old gods at least do it now
 
Seriously there should be no orthodox or catholics there should only be one cristianity. The schism only happens in 1054. You forgot to do this in old gods at least do it now

I do believe the explanation for this is how very culturally different both the churches were back then, with one being Latin and the other Greek, which I'm happy with, making one whole short-lived religion may be pretty but could be overly complicated, I think they've got enough to contend with at the moment with making tribes and the new laws work, and that's not to mention multiplayer.
 
Seriously there should be no orthodox or catholics there should only be one cristianity. The schism only happens in 1054. You forgot to do this in old gods at least do it now

The FORMAL split was 1054. The real split is much older. To make them a single religion would be more ahistorical...
 
I do believe the explanation for this is how very culturally different both the churches were back then, with one being Latin and the other Greek, which I'm happy with, making one whole short-lived religion may be pretty but could be overly complicated, I think they've got enough to contend with at the moment with making tribes and the new laws work, and that's not to mention multiplayer.
By that logic romanian orthodoxy is radically different than greek or bulgarian orthodoxy.
 
Seriously there should be no orthodox or catholics there should only be one cristianity. The schism only happens in 1054. You forgot to do this in old gods at least do it now

There never was ONE Christianity, in it's early stages Christianity had a lot of local variations, all claiming to be the right and only way of worshiping Christ. All of the Ecumenical Councils were called to deal with the different ways of worshiping and were mostly ineffectual. As someone else mentioned, by 726 there was direct competition between the Pope in Rome and the Patriarchs in the east. In effect, the split was already well on its way and the way it's done in game is a better reflection of the historical situation than one united Christianity. Besides, it also makes for a better game play.
 
The 867 situation is entirely different. Your position from a historical perspective is very much a valid position in 769 because the Abbassids were at a very strong internal position. In 867, they were experiencing an internal melt-down that made their rule in many areas nothing more than in name only.

Indeed. In game it is called "autonomous vassals" not independent. Or can you explain to me how the king of France in 1066 had more autorithy than the Abassids post Samarra anarchy ?

RE the HRE: Italy not being de jure HRE is a huge nerf - considering the majority of the de jure map is set up to railroad expansion in a biased way, this is huge. The HRE in later starts is an issue separate from everything else.

Yeah a huge nerf... . When I start in 1066 the HRE always go for a county in French Flanders because it's de jure HRE so much for railroading. (Of course they crush France with their doomstack).

An idea for dealing with the Abbasids and bringing a bit more historical accuracy to the new start date:

Pepper the Middle East and North Africa with some more Christians. Especially Nestorians in Syria and Mesopotamia and Miaphysites/Monophysites/Orthodox in the Levant.

Done already. It's not christian revolts that will helps historical accuracy. It already break the Ummayad in 50% percent of my playthrough. Accurate ? I don't think so.

Here's what I suggest. Give tribal like mechanic to autonomous and low crown autorithy.

At autonomous vassals will have to be called as allies for offensive and defensive wars. They will not give taxes except through the tribal "tribute" system.

At weak crown autorithy same but you can raise levies for defensive wars only.

This will greatly nerf Blobs at low crown authority and be close to historical accuracy.

Edit: and at those crown autorithy vassals have to agree to raise autorithy even for muslims.
 
Byzantium holds too much of Greece. Only Thessaloniki, Athens, Durazzo, and Coastal Peloponnese were firmly under the Emperor's control. Venice should also be part of the Empire.