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Hello everyone!

I'm Tobias Bodlund, Scripter on the Crusader Kings II team, and I bid you all welcome to this week's dev diary for Crusader kings II: Charlemagne.

Autumn is coming in Sweden but the birds are still singing, though sometimes out of tune.

Today we'll be discussing some new changes that affect how you rule your realm. Some of these things are obviously patch content, while some are locked to having the Charlemagne expansion.

The first thing we've done is to add a vassal limit. This is exactly what it sounds like - a limit to how many vassals a ruler can have without receiving penalties. Every vassal of count tier or above will count against this limit. The vassal limit will be higher for rulers of higher tiers, and for rulers with higher diplomacy skill. Another factor that increases the limit is your dynasty's prestige. You can also affect your vassal limit by changing your Centralization Law (this touches on an important new law mechanic - more on this later in this dev diary).

So what are the penalties of going over your vassal limit? Well, you will immediately get a penalty to the taxes and levies for all your vassals. This penalty increases exponentially, and if you go far enough over the limit you will get no vassal taxes or levies at all.

The second danger of being over the limit is that when your ruler dies, there is a chance of any vassal simply becoming independent instead of swearing fealty to your heir. The risk of this happening increases the higher over the limit you are. Vassals who are geographically more distant from your capital are the ones who are most likely to declare independence.

cm_dd_3_laws_2.png

We've also made a very important change to how laws depend on technology. Many laws are now unlocked by advancing your Legalism technology. Higher levels in this tech are needed to unlock higher levels of Centralization, Crown Authority, Levy and Taxation laws and Viceroy laws (again, just keep reading to find out more about this). This means that you will see a big difference in the tools available to organize your realm early game vs late game.

With these changes, Legalism no longer directly increases your demesne size limit, this modifier has been removed. Also, the short reign penalty modifier has been moved to the Majesty tech.

So, what does the Centralization Law do now? Well, firstly, it's a demesne law and so applies to your entire realm. Secondly, it has five tiers, going from fully decentralized to fully centralized. Lower centralization grants you a bonus to Vassal Limit, while high Centralization grants a bonus to Demesne Size Limit and a penalty to Vassal Limit. This presents the player with an interesting choice - do you want to focus on a larger, less centralized realm or on a stronger personal demesne but having a harder time of organizing your many vassals?

How legalism unlocks laws will be moddable to a large extent.

Now, to viceroys... With the Charlemagne DLC, it will be possible for a non-tribal emperor tier character to appoint viceroys to rule any kingdom or duchy titles that the emperor himself holds. This is effectively a lifetime governorship, where the viceroy becomes a vassal of the empire. Any landed vassal of count tier or above can be granted a viceroyalty. However, the viceroy does not own the title, but rather rules in his liege's name. When he dies, the title goes back to the liege. For all other purposes, the viceroy functions as a normal vassal. One character can hold several viceroyalties.

cm_dd3_viceroy.png

The ability to appoint viceroys is unlocked by the Legalism tech, and kingdom viceroyalties are unlocked much earlier than duchy viceroyalties.

Viceroys will gain an opinion bonus to the liege who grants the title, so should usually be quite loyal. However, should a viceroy mount a successful rebellion or otherwise become independent he will gain the granted kingdom or duchy as a permanent title.

We have also made some changes to regencies. The essence of it is that a character's regent is now more of a conscious actor, and will not automatically act in the liege's interest. A regent who dislikes you will be somewhat likely to make things difficult for you, and certain types of personality traits will also be likely to cause problems. Diplomatic actions may be blocked if the regent does not approve, for example. A friendly regent is your best bet for getting things done your way, but there are also other considerations. Any regent is likely to prefer seeing you married to someone of their own religion and culture, for example.

cm_dd3_regent.png

Since choosing your regent has now become much more important, you will be able to name a regent beforehand, via "Award Honorary Title" in a character's diplomacy interface. Your Designated Regent is officially recognized as the one chosen to take the reins if a regency is required.

In addition to the things mentioned, there are a number of smaller changes intended to make ruling your realm more interesting, and some intended to just make it easier. One example of this is the possibility for a councilmember to help you assign recently acquired titles for you if you have a lot of them.

In the final dev diary next week we will be talking about the new tribal mechanics. See you then!
 
Big message of answers coming up:

So out of curiousity, how will the anti-blobbing mechanics we see here affect something like the Golden Horde, which is supposed to blob out of control?

Basically this will force rulers (especially large ones) to have more powerful vassals. As long as the vassals are peaceful and quiet this should not be a problem, but as we all know this is not always the case. :)

Also, using the centralization law to give you higher vassal limit will force you as the liege to say no to those precious demense size modifiers, which can also be weakening.

Do the names of Viceroys get taken into account for the numbering of future rulers?

Yes.

Would it be possible for a character to have a viceroyalty in a different realm? Could an english duke have French counties or vice-versa?

Viceroyalties seem kinda OP. Distribute the whole realm to viceroyalties, bam, no rebellions.

No, viceroyalties can not be independent from you. If the viceroy would become independent from you in any way, the viceroyalty will change to an ordinary kingdom / duchy.

And yes, viceroyalties are really good, especially now with the vassal limit. However, the opinion bonus for being granted a viceroyalty is less than for being granted an ordinary title, so I would not expect a rebellion-free realm.

Fantastic DD. However, will be difficult for the player to have viceroys? I mean, is much better to have a viceroy than a vassal king

Since viceroys are given through an interaction, the player must actually hold the kingdom title in order to give it as a viceroy. So pressing the claim of a vassal on a kingdom outside your realm will give you a vassal king and not a viceroy.

Sorry another couple of questions. If a viceroy's vassals don't like him do they rebel against him or you? Can the vassals overthrow your chosen viceroy with someone else?

Factions against a viceroy work in the same manner as factions against a king. However, vassals to a viceroy can not overthrow this vassal.

Aren't viceroy's overpowered? You could just constantly give them out instead of appointing permanent duchies (if you don't have enough dynasty members).
Also, the auto-title giving system sounds awesome, holy wars were tedious because of that title wipe.

Duchy viceroyalties are due to the technology requirement available in late game only. By that time you will probably have a lot of vassals already with regular duchies.

Judging from the replies, so long as that title gives your viceroy authority over your vassals, then yes. So, if you're the Byzantines and you have douxes in Tracesia, Charsianon, and Trebizond, and you appoint a Viceroy over all of Anatolia, all those vassals should go to your Viceroy, who will then be the only relevant vassal (so, instead of, say 3 vassals, you now have 1).

Honestly, as someone who enjoys playing proper Imperial titles, this is going to be fantastic. I have more questions for the devs:
- Is there anything the Viceroy is prohibited from doing? For example, can he create duchies underneath him, if he's king-tier and all the vassals under him are counts?
- Can viceroys create titles above what they have? For example, if you hold all the duchy titles that constitute a kingdom (or even just the required number for forming normally), grant them all as a viceroyalty, can your duke-tier viceroy create the kingdom title?
- Are the kingdom viceroy law and duchy viceroy law completely exclusive? So, could you have both king-tier viceroys and duke-tier viceroys? If so, can your viceroys have viceroys?
- Can you appoint non-feudal vassals (bishops and doges) as viceroys? Can Empire-tier Bishops and Doges appoint viceroys?

- A viceroy is not prohibited in any way, and can create duchies. And yes, this means that even if you make a vassal powerful using viceroyalties, the vassal and his/her dynasty might grow dangerous.
- A viceroy can create title as a regular vassal can.
- Only emperors can have viceroy-laws, and having the viceroy-law enabled for duchies also have them enabled for kingdoms. Transferring a viceroyal duke to a viceroyal king would in theory mean that the duke-title would be given to the viceroy king when the duke dies.
- There is no government type-requirement for viceroyalties, as long as the emperor is not tribal. So yes. :)

As far as I understand, for those purposes, they're pretty much just standard vassals; you have as many as your limit allows, any land they get from you doesn't count towards your desmense...

If you're over your vassal limit when you die, can your viceroys also declare independence?

Yes. I recommend using viceroyalties to ensure this do not happen however. :)

Viceroys sound amazing and a long-awaited addition, but like many others I have to ask: what is the catch? Is there a limit to how many you can have and such? While the Empires are supposed to be less feudal, this poses the question of them becoming downright overpowered.

And I love the BWB. Never knew that white would fit 'em so well!

Catch one is that having these laws enabled will lower your vassal limit.
Catch two is that even viceroys (who will probably be pretty powerful) could choose to turn against you.

- Can viceroys start factions/plots to make their title hereditary?
- Can the CA of a viceroy's title be changed by the viceroy or their vassals?
- How does the vassal limit scale with dynastic prestige, Diplomacy, and tier? In other words: How many vassals do you get for a point in dynastic prestige, one point in ruler Diplomacy, or from a specific tier?
- Does any tech give a bonus to vassal limit? Can this be modded in, if that is not the case?
- Can a designated regent be unseated through the actions of other vassals or courtiers?
- How hard is it to change the regent's mind? Is it mainly based on their opinion of you, or will you be running into a "-----" to some actions even if the regent really likes you (a Zealous Catholic regent might oppose any attempt to declare war on the Pope even if you bribe him)?

- The title will become hereditary if the viceroy manages to become independent.
- Yes, CA can be changed by the viceroy.
- This is still subject to change so I can't give you any exact numbers.
- There is no tech to give bonus to vassal limit (and as mentioned there is no longer any tech to give bonus to demesne size). Both these effects can be modded in.
- Nope.
- Opinion will have an effect, but some interactions will be difficult - for instance to convince your regent to marry someone of another religion and culture.

These changes sound nice, but I do have a few questions:

1) Will an AI sovereign assign viceroyalties?

2) Will there be a means by which a vassal can request a viceroyalty from his or her liege?

3) Will there be a means (a faction, a plot besides murder, or a casus belli) for vassals to depose unpopular viceroys?

4) How much power can a viceroy have?

4a) Can a viceroy raise the levies of all the vassals assigned to his or her viceroyalty wherever he or she makes war?

4b) Can a viceroy revoke the titles of the vassals assigned to his or her viceroyalty?

4c) Can a viceroy raise or lower the crown authority within his or her designed region?

1 Yes. Both duchy and kingdom viceroyalties.
2 No.
3 There is no faction or plot to dethrone a viceroy as a vassal.
4 As much as you as the emperor allow them to (or as much as the viceroy manages to get despite your efforts).
a, b, c: The viceroy can do all of these.

I'm kinda wondering... will the vasal limit depend on the number of highest tier titles held, or just on the title rank? Because if it's the latter it would seem that a world conquest (which is not the goal of the game, I know, but can be an interesting thing to strive for) is made impossible - you'd surely reach a point where you'd have too many vassals! Or do you bump up the limits by creating more kingdoms and empires for you to keep?

It depends on the title rank. But as already mentioned, it will also expand along with your family prestige. So there is no "max" to this limit.
 
Vassal limit, centralization, viceroys, appointed regents and a better use of legalism; in principal I like all ideas, yet the vassal limit still gives me some considerations. Distance is mentioned as a factor to lose vassals upon succession, but shouldn't de jure or non de jure vassals be a factor too? Perhaps non de jure vassals will be affected more (or first)?

Being able to name regents is a great feature, but I can image there will be a plot to force a ruler to name a different regent (if successful). Viceroys will be great to portray the Carolingian realms.
 
Vassals have a chance to declare independence when the ruler dies???? EXCELLENT!

If you are over the vassal limit (or are a tribal realm with the lowest crown law), yes. I'm hoping that we will not see silly things like three de jure counts declaring independence while the king on the other side of the world remains loyal.
 
"The second danger of being over the limit is that when your ruler dies, there is a chance of any vassal simply becoming independent instead of swearing fealty to your heir. The risk of this happening increases the higher over the limit you are. Vassals who are geographically more distant from your capital are the ones who are most likely to declare independence"

I was pretty skeptical of Charlemagne at first, but now... Hail Tobias, the first of his name!

Viceroy spam as Zoro NeoPersia will be glorious!:D
 
Effects of Centralization
1) What are the current ratios you envision for vassal limit/desmene size?
By this, I mean, by how much is your vassal limit reduced when centralization increases and by how much is your desmne limit increased as a result?

Personnally, I'd go for -1 vassal limit = +1 desmene limit. The reason being that a vassal can be any tier except for Emperor while your personnal desmesne is limited to Baronies and Counties: from my point of view, that should be enough to keep the thing balanced.

The biggest issue might be that Kings and Emperors could potentially find themselves with a desmesne so large that they basically become too powerful for their vassals to oppose... That said, it's more or less what happened with Medieval France. By the end of the middle age, the royal desmene of the French King was huge, and that's because France had done a pretty big job on Centralization. And in theory, with the "develop legalism to unlock Centralization level" mechanic, it's going to take quite a while to unlock the highest levels of centralization, and thus large personnal desmenes. Just to keep that in check though, it might be a good idea to have an opinion modifier based on centralization levels: the higher the centralization, the less happy vassals should be because it grants their liege more personnal power.

I don't consider myself a professionnal CKII player so I have no idea if I'm making centralization OP with this suggestion... It all depends on the vassal limit I guess: how much diplomacy points do you need to get +1 vassal limit? How much dynastic prestige to get +1 vassal limit? Could also depend on how much that will affect the personnal desmene calculation...

2) Does centralization have an impact on how many dukedoms you can personnally hold? I vaguely remember hearing about such a feature in the videos.

Viceroys
What happens during a succession? Do the viceroys lose their position upon the death of the ruler who made them viceroys? Or are they nominated for life? I would need to dive into History, but I think both of these scenario can make sense. I guess a compromise would be to have an event upon succession when a viceroy currently in place humbly asks his new liege whether or not he should keep his position.
 
Big message of answers coming up:
<snip>

Thanks! If you can find time for some more interrogation, could you touch on how the Viceroy mechanic interacts with the Merchant Republic mechanic? If I make a viceroy out a coastal Grand Mayor of mine, will the viceroyal title turn him into a Doge?
 
Viceroys
What happens during a succession? Do the viceroys lose their position upon the death of the ruler who made them viceroys? Or are they nominated for life? I would need to dive into History, but I think both of these scenario can make sense. I guess a compromise would be to have an event upon succession when a viceroy currently in place humbly asks his new liege whether or not he should keep his position.

I think it would make sense to give the new ruler a free revocation in this instance, that they could then chose to use or not as they see fit.
 
Hmmm... why can you appoint a regent beforehand? We're talking real regencies and not "Regent because I left on Hajj but I'll be back in a month", right? I know the game treats them the same, but they weren't the same at all...

The father can say "I die now, my son Charles inherits but the Queen his mother will be regent", and then the Court can manoeuvre to put someone else in charge. Right? Otherwise, "designating heir" becomes the magical button (most of the times). I'd like to see things happen in Court for once! Not just the regent doing his shady business, but the Court making their way against or with them.

The Court is way too lifeless in CK2. Make it so the factions mean something beyond "this is a formal declaration of WAR". Make them petition, make them act together, make the factions clash without your own involvement! It's always you vs the faction, but in fact it was usually the factions against the other factions. The king chose sides, but it wasn't usually his side playing the game. Look at all and any English domestic conflict, especially later on; unless the king was "the target" or "the reason", as in Simon de Montfort's parliamentary revolt or Richard II's war and deposition, the rest were usually "faction vs faction". This is especially evident in the French court life in the XIVth-XVth Centuries: it's always the Burgundians vs the Armagnacs, at any level, they became France's Guelphs and Ghibellines.

Now that they have come out, and given that they're an important part of court life and politics... where are the Guelphs and the Ghibellines? Seriously. A simple trait that indicates one or the other, along with some events, would suffice; make a Guelph or Ghibelline faction appear and show solidarity among themselves, let them choose a leader and make some events to mimic the Pope vs the Hohenstaufens, Charles of Anjou's rise to absolute power... Charlemagne's approach to narrative events mimicking a historical character but with the "anyone could have done it!" edge is fun and a good idea. Emulate it for Condottieri-like generals that become dukes or mercenary princes that fight to get their legacy back. Model events and narratives on the likes of the Black Prince, Giovanni delle Bande Nere, Vratislav of Bohemia, Infant James of Majorca, John of Gaunt or King Saint Louis. Don't leave it just there! Make the most of it!

I realise that this is not in Charlemagne's timeline, but come on, instead of expanding the timeline ad infinitum, focus on improving your already dissipated court life! Improve the knightly orders, make them turn from saracen-bashing exiles into Western powerhouses and moneylenders. Make it possible to seize them French style, to allow them away Teutonic style, or to meddle in their affairs until you can appoint a grandmaster yourself. Add in royal knightly orders to add more layers to court life, and make the title meaningful. In Castile, making some noble Grandmaster of Santiago meant "you've got my trust, the biggest cow is now yours".

I'd pay gladly for an overhaul of European politics, buit is it going to happen?

PS: No missi dominici?
 
The vassal will become independent without any war starting and without the ruller gaining a casus belli. However, if the vassal is your de jure vassal you can still use the existing De Jure casus belli to reclaim the lands.
Please change this. It won't be fun to have some random dude go independant on me for no particular reason, without declaring war or at least giving me the CB.
 
Hmmm... why can you appoint a regent beforehand? We're talking real regencies and not "Regent because I left on Hajj but I'll be back in a month", right? I know the game treats them the same, but they weren't the same at all...

The father can say "I die now, my son Charles inherits but the Queen his mother will be regent", and then the Court can manoeuvre to put someone else in charge. Right? Otherwise, "designating heir" becomes the magical button (most of the times). I'd like to see things happen in Court for once! Not just the regent doing his shady business, but the Court making their way against or with them.

The Court is way too lifeless in CK2. Make it so the factions mean something beyond "this is a formal declaration of WAR". Make them petition, make them act together, make the factions clash without your own involvement! It's always you vs the faction, but in fact it was usually the factions against the other factions. The king chose sides, but it wasn't usually his side playing the game. Look at all and any English domestic conflict, especially later on; unless the king was "the target" or "the reason", as in Simon de Montfort's parliamentary revolt or Richard II's war and deposition, the rest were usually "faction vs faction". This is especially evident in the French court life in the XIVth-XVth Centuries: it's always the Burgundians vs the Armagnacs, at any level, they became France's Guelphs and Ghibellines.

Now that they have come out, and given that they're an important part of court life and politics... where are the Guelphs and the Ghibellines? Seriously. A simple trait that indicates one or the other, along with some events, would suffice; make a Guelph or Ghibelline faction appear and show solidarity among themselves, let them choose a leader and make some events to mimic the Pope vs the Hohenstaufens, Charles of Anjou's rise to absolute power... Charlemagne's approach to narrative events mimicking a historical character but with the "anyone could have done it!" edge is fun and a good idea. Emulate it for Condottieri-like generals that become dukes or mercenary princes that fight to get their legacy back. Model events and narratives on the likes of the Black Prince, Giovanni delle Bande Nere, Vratislav of Bohemia, Infant James of Majorca, John of Gaunt or King Saint Louis. Don't leave it just there! Make the most of it!

I realise that this is not in Charlemagne's timeline, but come on, instead of expanding the timeline ad infinitum, focus on improving your already dissipated court life! Improve the knightly orders, make them turn from saracen-bashing exiles into Western powerhouses and moneylenders. Make it possible to seize them French style, to allow them away Teutonic style, or to meddle in their affairs until you can appoint a grandmaster yourself. Add in royal knightly orders to add more layers to court life, and make the title meaningful. In Castile, making some noble Grandmaster of Santiago meant "you've got my trust, the biggest cow is now yours".

I'd pay gladly for an overhaul of European politics, buit is it going to happen?

PS: No missi dominici?

I'm probably going to make a regency-competition mod after Char is released. Basically the 'designated regent' title won't give you an assured chance at the regency. If the designated regent was out of favor with most of the realm/court, then someone else could be moved into his/her place.
 
Please change this. It won't be fun to have some random dude go independant on me for no particular reason, without declaring war or at least giving me the CB.

Well strictly speaking it's not for no particular reason. It's because you went far above your vassal limit and didn't fix it before you died. :p
 
Please change this. It won't be fun to have some random dude go independant on me for no particular reason, without declaring war or at least giving me the CB.

There is a reason... Just don't be over the vasall limit and it won't happen.