Winter is here and the ice-fear is very cold (now there's an obscure reference for you). For today's diary, I thought that we might immerse ourselves in medieval jurisprudence. In practice, the laws function in much the same way as in Rome: Vae Victis, but in Crusader Kings II there are two different types of law; one that applies to a character's actual demesne (de facto, or demesne laws) and one that applies to everyone within an ancient traditional kingdom (de jure, or kingdom laws.) Demesne laws cover things like succession, tax levels and how the council operates. Any playable character can fiddle around with his own demesne laws. Kingdom laws cover the freedoms, rights and obligations of burghers, nobles, clergy and peasants. Only the holder of a Kingdom title is allowed to change these laws, and they will affect the whole geographical kingdom, regardless of whether a province is actually under its de facto control. (Like in Crusader Kings, de jure duchies and kingdoms are static, geographical entities that never change.)

Therefore, a player who is, for example, king of Norway and Denmark must change de jure laws separately per kingdom. To make things even more interesting, succession at the kingdom level (and only at the kingdom level) is also handled per kingdom, so Norway might be an elective monarchy while Denmark has primogeniture. Thus, the Norwegian dukes might elect another successor to the throne of Norway than the oldest son of the current king, which would split the kingdoms apart...
Speaking of succession laws, they are slightly different from the ones in Crusader Kings. In Crusader Kings II, most succession laws can be either cognatic or agnatic (that choice is a separate law.) These are the succession laws of CKII:

• Seniority (oldest man in the dynasty succeeds)
• Primogeniture (oldest son succeeds)
• Elective (the current king and the dukes each nominate a successor)
• Gavelkind (all titles are divided among the sons of the ruler)
• Turkish (a succession crisis is almost guaranteed, but the vassals are content)
• Republican (a random vassal or courtier succeeds; used for republics, etc)
• Catholic Bishopric (the liege lord can override the Pope's choice by nominating his own successor)

That's all for now. The game is still a very long way from being finished, but I can at least offer you this screenshot of the current Law interface (though bear in mind that it is still very much subject to change.) In the screenshot, the king stands to inherit the duchy, because the young duke has no legal heir. "Pretenders" are the second and third characters in the line of succession.





Until next time, I bid you a very merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

Henrik Fåhraeus, Associate Producer and CKII Project Lead

 

[Imperium Dei]

This game is looking increasingly fun (not that I doubted it would be).

 

[Captain Frakas]

Cognatic as implemented means that females may inherit in the absence of eligible males. I suppose it should actually be called Agnatic-Cognatic Succession.

Thanks for your answers. I'm happy with it.

 

[Sult]

Is there an ironic pop-culture reference in there I do not understand or is this really a child going "if you don't buy me an XBOX, I'm gonna cry all the way through Christmas service"?

"But moooooooom, daaaaaaaad! I really want my king's daughter to inherit the kingdom over her younger brothers! I do wanna! I do wanna!"

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

"But moooooooom, daaaaaaaad! I really want my king's daughter to inherit the kingdom over her younger brothers! I do wanna! I do wanna!"

He has been banned on his own request, so please let this issue rest

 

[Nikolai]

Cognatic as implemented means that females may inherit in the absence of eligible males. I suppose it should actually be called Agnatic-Cognatic Succession.

Will this mean game over, as in CK1? I hated that. I want to be able to continue as my daughter! (however weird that sounds )

 

[sortulv]

Say I'm the count of Bergen (in Norway), and I've sworn aliegiance to the king of sweden. Who are the electors?
How about for an independant duke?
And how is the elective process? Automatic (support the strongest?), or select an candidate?

Each vassal duke gets a vote, as does the current king. You nominate a candidate beforehand.

As a count I'd rather expect not to have any vassal dukes at all. So does this relate to my non-existant vassals? My king (my liege the king of Sweden), or the local king (of Norway).

Basically I'm trying to understand how this works for the lesser ranks.

 

[sortulv]

So I take it there will be no place for the Scandinavian rota system? I.e. when there are kingdoms a, b, c and d in one kingroup, king of a dies, his oldest brother the king of b becomes king, c becomes b, d becomes c, and the next guy (another brother or son) d. This is the way succession happened in Rus, and in the Norse cities of Ireland.

Yes, but not in Scandinavia proper. To be honest, it is just a nightmare for everyone involved. So, no, that system will not be supported.

Wouldn't that be equalent to seniority as described in the OP?

 

[Doomdark]

As a count I'd rather expect not to have any vassal dukes at all. So does this relate to my non-existant vassals? My king (my liege the king of Sweden), or the local king (of Norway).

Basically I'm trying to understand how this works for the lesser ranks.

A count has vassal barons. It works exactly the same.

 

[Doomdark]

Will this mean game over, as in CK1? I hated that. I want to be able to continue as my daughter! (however weird that sounds )

Unless you have a Cognatic Succession Law (or you're playing something other than a feudal realm) it is game over, yes. End of the line.

 

[the_hdk]

So it will be possible to play as a Bishop? a Republic? or a Knight Order?

edit: I though you would reserve that right for an expansion

 

[Txini]

Unless you have a Cognatic Succession Law (or you're playing something other than a feudal realm) it is game over, yes. End of the line.

Except you marry a cousin of your same dynasty, with the possibility of problems that decission has

 

[unmerged(9481)]

Except you marry a cousin of your same dynasty, with the possibility of problems that decission has

Will papal approval be necessary to marry a character off to a close relative?

Or - will a "voluntary donation" to the Holy See allow you to marry your daughter to her uncle or other close relative?

 

[systemlvl]

Nice features!

However, the king looks waaay too much like something out of a 19th century history book for children. What's up with the bright blue background and the silly crown?? Or the hermelin mantle?? Medieval crowns were big, crude pieces of BLING, not romantic-arts-type ornaments.

Wiki has plenty of pictures of medieval (1066-1399 CK era) crowns, they look nothing like that.

I concur, though it will hopefully be moddable here are some examples:

Crown of the Holy Roman Empire:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Weltliche_Schatzkammer_Wien_(169)pano2.jpg

Crown of St. Stephen:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/SZENTK~1b.jpg

Crown of HRE Henry II:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Residenz_Muenchen_Krone_Heinrich_II_1270.jpg

Iron Crown of Lombardy:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Iron_Crown.JPG

One of the crowns of HRE & Bohemian king Charles IV:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/Korona_sredzka.jpg

Depiction of John II Komnenos:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/JohnIIcomnenus.jpg

 

[aramael]

Winter is here and the ice-fear is very cold (now there's an obscure reference for you).

Your screen name is Doomdark; it can't be that obscure

 

[Calgacus]

Wouldn't that be equalent to seniority as described in the OP?

That's gonna have to do ... and frankly it's pretty good that the succession custom of the vast majority of the map will actually be in the game this time around.

The difference though between the seniority and rota is that the rota incorporates a number of principalities instead of one; as in when the King of Kiev dies, the king of, say, Novgorod succeeds, the king of Pereyaslavl succeeds to Novgorod, the king of Chernigov to Pereyaslavl, and so on (Yaroslav the Wise fixed a different rota than this one, which is just an example).

 

[The Kingmaker]

That's gonna have to do ... and frankly it's pretty good that the succession custom of the vast majority of the map will actually be in the game this time around.

The difference though between the seniority and rota is that the rota incorporates a number of principalities instead of one; as in when the King of Kiev dies, the king of, say, Novgorod succeeds, the king of Pereyaslavl succeeds to Novgorod, the king of Chernigov to Pereyaslavl, and so on (Yaroslav the Wise fixed a different rota than this one, which is just an example).

Yeah. Assuming the Kiven Rus would be using the seniority model in CK2... to be as accurate as possible, each prince would need to be the heir of the next in the sequence, but in the game that would probably lead to some insane blobbing within one generation's time. What's the best way to represent their situation using the game options without enduring the blobbing?

 

[Nick B II]

Yeah. Assuming the Kiven Rus would be using the seniority model in CK2... to be as accurate as possible, each prince would need to be the heir of the next in the sequence, but in the game that would probably lead to some insane blobbing within one generation's time. What's the best way to represent their situation using the game options without enduring the blobbing?

There's probably a good way to code this, but I can't figure out what it is.

To trigger an inheritance the current holder of a title must die. So the algorithm would be something like this:

1) Kiev dies.
2) The least senior Prince dies and is inherited by his heir.
3) The least senior is reincarnated as heir to the next-most senior.
4) Repeat death/inheritance cycle until all Prince-titles are filled.

So basically to do this sanely we'd need a way to trigger inheritance without death and/or a way to bring specific dead people back.

It might be in an expansion. Perhaps a British expansion that also included Ireland's system of Tanastry, or a Viking expansion.

Nick

 

[Calgacus]

Yeah. Assuming the Kiven Rus would be using the seniority model in CK2... to be as accurate as possible, each prince would need to be the heir of the next in the sequence, but in the game that would probably lead to some insane blobbing within one generation's time. What's the best way to represent their situation using the game options without enduring the blobbing?

Yes, Doomdark has already said it is a nightmare to make this, so it won't be done. But since the system is desirable, I would imagine it might come in an XP if CKII is successful.

I don't understand your question though because I don't know what you mean by "blobbing" ...

 

[unmerged(7537)]

I really like this. Two thumbs up!

 

[Revshawn]

I. Want. This. Game.