Hello everyone, I'm Tegus, one of the programmers working on Crusader
Kings II. Welcome to the fifth dev diary for CK2 and the first one written
by me. In today's dev diary I'm going to talk a bit about the map and why
we've chosen to implement a new one in CK2.

As you all know, in our games the map is an important tool for both
displaying information and setting the mood of the game. In HoI3 we had a
grayish map that we felt was appropriate for a war game. We took this map
and altered it slightly when making Victoria 2, but this time the map was
drawn with vivid colors to portray the progress of the era. The next game to
use the map was Divine Wind because we all felt that EU3 was in need of a
graphical face lift. While this map technology looked good in the
mentioned games, there were certain technological limitations which we
wanted to improve upon or get rid of.

With CK2, we have devoted time to rewrite the graphics code for the map
from scratch. We are back to a pure 3D map similar to the one used in EU3:
Rome. We have visible topology and you will be able to rotate the world
around the way you please. While neither the technology nor the art assets
are in any way final, we do feel that the new map already has great
potential and is a big step in the right direction towards our visual
goals. Hopefully this new tech will also span multiple games, so we
can steadily improve it.



To be fair, if I would describe what we have done with the map so far, it
would just be sentence after sentence of technical mumbo-jumbo, so I'll
spare you the details. Let's instead focus on what visual details that
have been improved and what we want to add before the game is shipped.

We've improved the looks of the water significantly and added refraction
so you can actually see topology under the ocean surface. Aerie has taken
the time to find real-world topology data(although we've exaggerated it
somewhat), it definitely gives a cool feel to the terrain. Borders have
also gotten some love and now use a new system which enables us to make
them much smoother. Much of the previous jaggedness is gone. We've also
begun to implement and test a more detailed lighting model, which we will
continue to improve upon until we release the game. Another cool
feature(which isn't really part of the map) are the units, whose tabards
now show the heraldic flag of the unit leader.



But there are still some things which we're missing. We need trees and
rivers. We need to add province names and realm names, which exist in all
our latest games. I'd like to add more information to borders, so borders
between two realms are colored by the realms' respective colors. There are
of course lots of more things we want to do, but I won't spill the beans
just yet.



All in all, we are very happy with the way the new map is coming along.
Hopefully you will enjoy it as well once you get to play the game!

Fredrik Zetterman, Deluxe programmer, currently working on Crusader Kings
II

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

What happens if you have military access with a nation behind your fow? The wall of fog would block your view?

Couldn't you make the camera 'jump' over the FoW? Might be a tad difficult for small provinces, but it could be done

 

[Sandam]

is it just me or shoreline height is a little to high over the water? what rgb value you are using for lowest points? not 0,0,0?

 

[Balesir]

I can't say I'm a fan of the rotating map even though I do like the map itself even if it is a bit featureless (despite topography). The rotation function seems a bit pointless and I never used it in Rome (after trying it). I couldn't see any practical use for it.

As long as there are (hotkey) presets/defaults/saved views I love the inclusion of rotation and tilt for the map view. I have often found myself wishing I had it to get a clear view of a situation in EU3, Vic2 and HoI3; routes of move arrows and such are so often hidden behind troops etc. in the standard view.

How low exactly will you be able to go? It looks in those screenshots like you are almost on the ground... how will FoW work? Will we be looking stright into a wall of fog?

A literal "fog" as the FOW would be rather nice, I think. Maybe translucent fog with the terrain underneath?

 

[sjones25]

IMO Magna Mundi's map just looks low budget compared to CK2's.

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

A literal "fog" as the FOW would be rather nice, I think. Maybe translucent fog with the terrain underneath?

Exactly what I meant... it would be cool, wouldn't it?

 

[Calgacus]

Changing province borders is trivial, and I expect further corrections will be made once the Alpha phase kicks off.

That is good to hear, however let me say that the problems with the CK1 map were more substantial than that; provinces missing, useless provinces existing ... more serious than run-of-the-mill inclusion envy. In Ireland, we had a map that was such a historical mess that it was almost impossible to mod for (like many regions, it was just modern county/council areas). Scotland too was a mess of mistakes, with even Gowrie (the "capital" province in which all the major royal centres of the kingdom lay) missing and covered over by "Atholl", in RL a poor province little more than waste. By contrast, we had a province called "Berwick" which had no function whatever, neither being a large province nor the name of an earldom. In England an important county/earldom like Huntingdon was missing (presumably because the latter was part of modern Cambridgeshire), with a useless unit like Exeter in their place. Or what about Tadmor/Palmyra where the Arabic and Roman names for the same little desert city stood side by sides as separate provinces, or in the Baltic where a province was triplicated because the map's author did not realise Jacwiez, Sudovia and Yatvyagi were just three different names for the same area. The Finnic and Turkic areas of the Far East [of the map] covered in anachronistic Slavic names (I'll ignore the fetish for English names in the British Isles).

I just find it very hard to understand why that was adopted as the model. Almost everyone agreed the map was highly problematic. and since superior map mods have come about:

Western European Map Mod
Mappa-Regnorum

I realise there's other important stuff most game developers are more naturally interested in, but paradox gets much of its street cred for respecting such matters. All it needed to do was use such mods as a base (admittedly the current map mods imbalance the West against the more in-fact populous East), or run it by the forum for corrections; and if you don't trust them, hire some qualified researchers with access to the appropriate resources--doctoral students are legendarily cheap these days! There are some of us that care about that sorta stuff. For me it really does detract from the experience of the game, and there are surely plenty of us in this boat even if they will take time to be heard.

 

[ZhugeKongming]

Not sure I like the map... I'd rather have a map that has a distinct sense of style than some boring topographically correct thing with shiny water. Something like Hand Drawn Map with a medieval aesthetic.

 

[Drachenfire]

I look forward to a reimagined map, and I have to admit to liking eye candy. In CK1, I play exclusively with political map, so will keep an open mind with what’s on offer for CK2 map.

My primary concern remains simply redrawing the provinces and adding provinces to Wales, Ireland, Scotland, and Brittany. Jord’s Dues Vault Improvement pack includes Kurek's revised Wales map, and Veld’s Alternative includes Kurek's redrawn British and Irish isles maps. While Fiftypence has taken to redrawing as much of the map as he can, and I appreciate what he has done for Brittany. The additional province for Wales is very much needed, changing the gaming expierence for a player greatly. From six to twelve provinces redrawn on Kurak's original modal allowed for more dynasties to be played with greater texture and nuance for that region. So many more characters and dynasties are available and more correctly represented with these modes that it would be a shame not to include them in CK2 right out of the gate. I know we need that in Scotland, Ireland, and Brittany too.

Lastly, I definitely would prefer for the province borders to look more articulated, like what Fiftypence has done on Mappa Regnorum.

Another question that I have, and am unsure if it has been asked before, but is it possible that the name of a province may change depending on ownership and/or culture of the province?
The reason I bring this up is for a province like Dyfed in the DVIP Wales map mode and the TASS mode which includes revised British Isles map. In each, the region which represents Dyfed does double duty. In the 1066 scenario start it generally represents the historic Dyfed in Welsh, but in later scenarios it is more correctly to refer to it as Pembroke after the Norman earldom which conquered it. There many are many provinces that can or should do double duty like this.

 

[Sami-Fire]

This question might be a bit off topic/unanswerable at this point, but... does this shiny new map mean that CKII might possibly require the 128mb graphics card/whatever the exact component was like EUIII? I'll be one sad panda if that ends up being the case, meaning I can't play the game. D: The original CK is pretty much my favorite Paradox game, so I hope I'll actually be able to play it. ><

 

[RedRooster81]

This question might be a bit off topic/unanswerable at this point, but... does this shiny new map mean that CKII might possibly require the 128mb graphics card/whatever the exact component was like EUIII? I'll be one sad panda if that ends up being the case, meaning I can't play the game. D: The original CK is pretty much my favorite Paradox game, so I hope I'll actually be able to play it. ><

I had to upgrade when I got EU3, so I sympathize. I could not play that game on my laptop, though CK ran well enough.

 

[RedRooster81]

I look forward to a reimagined map, and I have to admit to liking eye candy. In CK1, I play exclusively with political map, so will keep an open mind with what’s on offer for CK2 map.

My primary concern remains simply redrawing the provinces and adding provinces to Wales, Ireland, Scotland, and Brittany. Jord’s Dues Vault Improvement pack includes Kurek's revised Wales map, and Veld’s Alternative includes Kurek's redrawn British and Irish isles maps. While Fiftypence has taken to redrawing as much of the map as he can, and I appreciate what he has done for Brittany. The additional province for Wales is very much needed, changing the gaming expierence for a player greatly. From six to twelve provinces redrawn on Kurak's original modal allowed for more dynasties to be played with greater texture and nuance for that region. So many more characters and dynasties are available and more correctly represented with these modes that it would be a shame not to include them in CK2 right out of the gate. I know we need that in Scotland, Ireland, and Brittany too.

Lastly, I definitely would prefer for the province borders to look more articulated, like what Fiftypence has done on Mappa Regnorum.

Another question that I have, and am unsure if it has been asked before, but is it possible that the name of a province may change depending on ownership and/or culture of the province?
The reason I bring this up is for a province like Dyfed in the DVIP Wales map mode and the TASS mode which includes revised British Isles map. In each, the region which represents Dyfed does double duty. In the 1066 scenario start it generally represents the historic Dyfed in Welsh, but in later scenarios it is more correctly to refer to it as Pembroke after the Norman earldom which conquered it. There many are many provinces that can or should do double duty like this.

With the 3D map it should be rather easy to rename provinces, without using graphics software. Such is the case with the latest build of EU3 HTTT, where I have renamed all of the lesser Antillean islands to fit my own storyline, and the new names appear onscreen without a hitch. Especially on frontiers, it should not be hard to rename provinces, thought there perhaps should be events or decisions to rename provinces according to the current overlord's culture. So places like Constantinople, Toledo, and Prague could change their names when Turks, Castillians, and Germans conquer those cities, respectively. Definitely something that the devs should consider, as it is already in EU3.

 

[Morrell8]

Will this new, beautiful map lag the game to death? I am not one who will be able to purchase some of the latest gadgets to make the game run smoothly.

 

[RedRooster81]

My lords and ladies,

An article posted in late January on worthplaying.com has a slew of nice screenshots showing the map. I noticed (maybe for the first time, but I am oblivious some times, or so my lady tells me) marshes, plains, forests (or at least woodlands), and heavily farmed counties. http://worthplaying.com/article/2011/1/27/news/79528/ Enjoy.

 

[RedRooster81]

Will this new, beautiful map lag the game to death? I am not one who will be able to purchase some of the latest gadgets to make the game run smoothly.

I hope it won't be too much more taxing than EU Rome (which runs pretty well) or the later expansions of EU3. Tegus, do you care to comment on performance testing? Thanks.

 

[Garak]

Glad to see the 3D terrain is back! Rome's map is the best looking in all the Clausewitz engine games in my opinion, and I've missed the visible mountains and such in the newer games (and in the changes to EUIII in Divine Wind). It's looking very good so far!

 

[Tegus]

I hope it won't be too much more taxing than EU Rome (which runs pretty well) or the later expansions of EU3. Tegus, do you care to comment on performance testing? Thanks.

It's a bit too early to talk about what end spec it'll require. The new map is a lot less costly on the CPU-side while it will probably cost a bit more on the GPU-side. I haven't done any extensive graphics profiling on our older titles, but I'd guess many of them struggle with the graphics CPU-wise.

So, what does that mean for end users? If you play the game and find that you have a slow framerate, then if you are GPU-bound you can simply lower the resolution to get a better framerate.

But that's not the only solution. We are discussing light-weight graphics mode(s) for users with low-end graphics cards as well, but how these mode(s) will look and what they'll include is not decided yet. I think it's fair to assume that we'll include at least one light-weight mode.

This answer is a bit vague, I know, but with graphics programming you usually implement most of your graphics code first, then optimize it(because it's often fruitless to optimize at the same time you're trying to achieve a visual effect).

For those of you that are into graphics hardware, so far CK2 high-end mode will require your hardware to support shader model 3, instancing, vertex textures and two-sided stencil. These might all change during our continued development.

 

[RedRooster81]

It's a bit too early to talk about what end spec it'll require. The new map is a lot less costly on the CPU-side while it will probably cost a bit more on the GPU-side. I haven't done any extensive graphics profiling on our older titles, but I'd guess many of them struggle with the graphics CPU-wise.

So, what does that mean for end users? If you play the game and find that you have slow a framerate, then if you are GPU-bound you can simply lower the resolution to get a better framerate.

But that's not the only solution. We are discussing light-weight graphics mode(s) for users with low-end graphics cards as well, but how these mode(s) will look and what they'll include is not decided yet. I think it's fair to assume that we'll include at least one light-weight mode.

This answer is a bit vague, I know, but with graphics programming you usually implement most of your graphics code first, then optimize it(because it's often fruitless to optimize at the same time you're trying to achieve a visual effect).

For those of you that are into graphics hardware, so far CK2 high-end mode will require your hardware to support shader model 3, instancing, vertex textures and two-sided stencil. These might all change during our continued development.

Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful response. I appreciate that you are considering light-weight modes for those of us with rather basic hardware. It would be nice to be able to run CK2 on a laptop, most of which lack graphics cards with t&l support, for instance. This was the big difference between the requirements of the EU2 and EU3 generations of Paradox games.

 

[safferli]

Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful response. I appreciate that you are considering light-weight modes for those of us with rather basic hardware. It would be nice to be able to run CK2 on a laptop, most of which lack graphics cards with t&l support, for instance. This was the big difference between the requirements of the EU2 and EU3 generations of Paradox games.

Huh? I am certainly no expert, but I thought that T&L support was, like, pre-2000 or something?

 

[safferli]

This question might be a bit off topic/unanswerable at this point, but... does this shiny new map mean that CKII might possibly require the 128mb graphics card/whatever the exact component was like EUIII? I'll be one sad panda if that ends up being the case, meaning I can't play the game. D: The original CK is pretty much my favorite Paradox game, so I hope I'll actually be able to play it. ><

The game will most certainly need at least the graphics requirements of EU3.

 

[RedRooster81]

Huh? I am certainly no expert, but I thought that T&L support was, like, pre-2000 or something?

A lot of laptops are still sold with integrated graphics cards that lack T&L support. And some of us are still living in the 20th century technologically speaking.