Legacy of Rome will be released next week, so this dev diary will be the last of this cycle. Doomdark is busy hammering away at the game, so this week the honor of writing it falls to me. As he said last time, we'll finish off with some of the unique decisions, events and mechanics we've added to the Byzantine Empire in the DLC. Note that the following stuff is for the DLC, not the free 1.07 patch.

Succession in Byzantium works the same as in the rest of Europe, except for one thing. Children born to an emperor during his reign will get the ”Born in the Purple” trait, which gives them a stronger succession claim than any older siblings born before their parents ascended the throne. If you, as emperor, still want your gifted firstborn son as your heir instead of his snotnosed younger brother who had the good fortune of being born during your reign, infanticide is not your only option. Granting the Despot honorary title to your firstborn will rank him the same as if he had the Purple trait, and given his seniority in age, he will become your heir again.

View attachment LoR_02_ERE_Events.jpg

Ambitious emperors will no doubt try to reclaim some of Rome's former glory by restoring the Empire's lost territory. If they or their imperial vassals hold certain provinces, they will have the opportunity to restore the Roman Empire. This decision essentially signifies that the West has no choice but to accept the Byzantines as the true heirs of Rome's legacy. You will get a new title (complete with a new flag, of course), and the rulers of a restored Rome always get the ”Augustus” trait, which gives a slight boost to vassal relations. If you wish it, there is a decision to move your capital to Rome, though the city scarcely compares to Constantinople in this era so you will likely have to invest a lot of gold and time to rebuild it.

Another major decision, of course, is to mend the Great Schism between the Catholic and Orthodox churches. You will need to reunite the Pentarchy (Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria and Rome) under Byzantine and Orthodox rule and accumulate a great deal of piety. When this decision is taken, Catholicism will become a heresy and Catholic rulers across Europe will have to decide whether to convert or not. A few will refuse, and Europe will likely be plagued by religious unrest for some time, but the first step has now been taken to unite Christendom under a single church.

View attachment LoR_01_ERE_Events.jpg

As you have probably seen, Byzantine rulers can elect to blind or castrate their prisoners. This can be an efficient way of permanently crippling your rivals without executing them outright. Have an obnoxious brother that covets your throne? If he is blinded or castrated, he will be removed from the imperial succession, and you will have one less pretender to worry about. Just don't expect him to like you much afterwards.

Castrated rivals aside, eunuchs played an important role at the Byzantine imperial court, and from time to time one of them will distinguish himself enough to be brought to your attention. This eunuch will be very loyal to your ruler and quite skilled in his chosen field. When other lords turn their backs on you, you will usually still be able to depend on his service, whether it's as a skilled general or a gifted spymaster.

Other events you can expect to see are triumphs being held when you emerge victorious from decisive wars, unruly Varangians in the capital, Hippodrome races and much more.

View attachment LoR_03_ERE_Events.jpg

Finally, let me stress that this does not mean that we have created a supercharged Byzantine Empire that will always go on to dominate Europe as the Romans did before them. Skilled and dedicated players will be able to stage a miraculous recovery and recreate the borders of the Roman Empire and maybe even hold it all together afterwards, but we have naturally taken care not to upset the balance of the game. Just wanted to put that out there.

 

[Alerias]

The romans never controlled Ireland, unless there were some military expeditions I have never heard of, if so, please enlighten me!

Sure. Julius Ceasar led a fleet to invade Eire, but after Hercules kicked his ass, he ordered all records of the attempt destroyed. I learned that on TV when I was a kid.

 

[Ciccillo Rre]

Just some thoughts:

1) Rome had been abandoned as the capital of the Roman Empire for quite awhile, even before the founding of Nova Roma (Constantinople). A reconquest of Italy by the ERE should result in the recreation of the Exarchate of Ravenna, with the capital in that particular city and whose Exarch would be the Emperor's representative in the Italian peninsula and make sure the patriarch of Rome (a small village among a city of ruins) doesn't get any funny ideas of grandeur again.

2) Linguistically speaking, even before the various partitions of the Empire, the Greek language was the universal language of the Empire, spoken from Petrae to Hibernia, for the simple reason that it was the cultural and commercial language (it was even refferred to it back then as Koyna = universal language). Latin was the official administrative language in the West and also the language of the army of the WRE - hence the sparsely populated provinces colonized by the soldiers who were rewarded with lands there spoke some forms of latin, which eventually became the romance languages we hear today. However, if you wanted to make yourself understood anywhere in the Roman Empire you needed to know Greek.

3) From a cultural point of view, however, it should be pointed out that, back then, there was no distinct Greek culture the way we consider it today - and I believe this point has been raised in a previous post. The people that today call themselves Greeks (Hellenes), back then they thought of themselves as Romans (Romaioi). In time, and following a series of conflicts which culminated with the Great Schism, they came to be considered as something else by the chroniclers from the West (who constitute the basis of the Western historiography). However, if the player manages to heal the religous rift between East and West and completes the reconquest of the western Roman lands, I see no problem with the spreading of "Greek" culture, where Greek represents the true Roman culture, as it was preserved in the East.

I agree with all you say, but at the same time I find it problematic to see a Greek culture spreading in Roman Italia.

This is crucial as with the current rules, the culture attached to a title determines the settlers' event for cultural conversion.

 

[hmmelum]

Catholics conquered Constantinople in 1204 and it never happened. Allowing it to happen because they conquer other parts of the pentarchy that were never under orthodox control during the time frame doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to permit Catholics to end the schism. The problem with teh schism was the Pope's wanted to be in complete control of Christianity free from the empire. The Greeks never took the Pope all that seriously. Take away Rome and the Pope's legitimacy crashes so it makes some sense for the emperor to be able to bring the Pope to heal but not the other way around.

Edit: this was a reply and the quote got messed up. nvm if you can't figure out what I'm talking about.

I don't think the Catholic church lost legitimacy in favour of the east for instance when it moved to Avingon. The Catholic church defined the west as a cultural entity. Losing Rome would not have undone that.

 

[Velorian]

I don't think the Catholic church lost legitimacy in favour of the east for instance when it moved to Avingon. The Catholic church defined the west as a cultural entity. Losing Rome would not have undone that.

Well even as a technical "Heresy" they will retain their moral authority and the possibility to have it increase. The main effect the way I see it, is to legitimize persecution of Catholics by Orthodox Rulers and allow for using it as a pretext for war declarations. Seems reasonable enough to me.

I doubt the catholic world will just collapse within a few decades without some serious pushing. If the mechanic is open to modding, it should also be possible to undo the healing of the schism or do a reverse healing for that matter. Ideally the Catholics should get one or two crusades to reclaim Rome, before being delegated to a heresy, but hopefully this is open to modding.

 

[Theddude]

I agree with all you say, but at the same time I find it problematic to see a Greek culture spreading in Roman Italia.

This is crucial as with the current rules, the culture attached to a title determines the settlers' event for cultural conversion.

Agreed, it's one way of looking at it, but it's basically trying to explain away something that doesn't seem right. I guess that's what we'll get though. It would be cool if you could divide the empire East/West with Italians (Orthodox of course) in the West. Never going to happen I'm sure, but it would be cool.

Honestly though, I get a little tired of all the "mods will fix this, mods will fix that" mentality. In that case maybe we should have left SoI's content to be done by modders? I don't have anything against mods and I have a few myself, but I don't like the idea that people should have to get mods for something or other.

I realize the developers' time is finite, and not to be demanding or high and mighty, but I honestly only propose changing a few lines of code, and it would make such a big impact on gameplay. I mean, if we're getting an expansion about reforming the Roman Empire and ending the Great Schism, how far out could a resurgent Italian Western Empire be?

 

[Jak9090]

looks amazing will definantly be buying on release.

 

[Joel M Bridge]

I all fine strange what guys get hung up on some times. For I was look forward to more roman/byzantine court with difference between title and offices, court ritual and ceremonials, how interchange the offices of emperor is in reality.

Example would be the Blue or Green faction rioting kill the emperor who rioter choose would be consider the legit emperor since man chosen by the people, normal he some kind of military commander of some sort that count army vote as well. All the coronation ceremonial is make the emperor sacred figure.

Or fact that own land even though made man wealthy compare rest population, compare to the people with court title or offices the title less landowner was poor peon or at best lower middle class. All wealth and power came from emperor. I just pray the events in game cover how easy man can lose throne as fast as he gain it. and all vassal be seen land owner competing for title offices, so they can gain the wealth and power.

But beg the question if are why where not brought up?

*bump*

 

[Avicenna]

Just some thoughts:

1) Rome had been abandoned as the capital of the Roman Empire for quite awhile, even before the founding of Nova Roma (Constantinople). A reconquest of Italy by the ERE should result in the recreation of the Exarchate of Ravenna, with the capital in that particular city and whose Exarch would be the Emperor's representative in the Italian peninsula and make sure the patriarch of Rome (a small village among a city of ruins) doesn't get any funny ideas of grandeur again.

I disagree on this - if we're talking in terms of the game, in being named undisputed Roman Emperor, there were very strong notions of that involving Rome. Manuel Komnenos, while in talks about ending the schism with the Pope, was offered to be crowned Western Emperor by the Pope - in Rome, where Manuel was expected to take up residency. Rome was very much the lynchpin of legitimacy.

I think that if the game is saying 'you're now seen as the undisputed Roman Emperor' that would have to involve Rome - heavily.

 

[Romanfe]

Agreed, it's one way of looking at it, but it's basically trying to explain away something that doesn't seem right. I guess that's what we'll get though. It would be cool if you could divide the empire East/West with Italians (Orthodox of course) in the West. Never going to happen I'm sure, but it would be cool.

Honestly though, I get a little tired of all the "mods will fix this, mods will fix that" mentality. In that case maybe we should have left SoI's content to be done by modders? I don't have anything against mods and I have a few myself, but I don't like the idea that people should have to get mods for something or other.

I realize the developers' time is finite, and not to be demanding or high and mighty, but I honestly only propose changing a few lines of code, and it would make such a big impact on gameplay. I mean, if we're getting an expansion about reforming the Roman Empire and ending the Great Schism, how far out could a resurgent Italian Western Empire be?

No kidding, is it too much work for someone at paradox to spend the ten minutes it takes to 'copy and paste' and 'find and replace', then add a unique ID?

 

[Te. Kenzo]

Sure. Julius Ceasar led a fleet to invade Eire, but after Hercules kicked his ass, he ordered all records of the attempt destroyed. I learned that on TV when I was a kid.

:laugh:
Good Times

 

[Beric Dondarion]

No kidding, is it too much work for someone at paradox to spend the ten minutes it takes to 'copy and paste' and 'find and replace', then add a unique ID?

Yes.

 

[Alerias]

I wonder about the Despot / born of purple thing...

If Despot raises one's status in the succession, does it mean it can override seniority, all other things being equal? Would it allow me to favor my second, younger son, over the elder assuming both were born either under, or out of, the purple?

Obviously that question applies only to Primogeniture and Gavelkind succession.

 

[BBBD316]

I think I just peed a little.

I really think that the factions will make ruling the empire a lot harder and I think that the factions will look to attack whilst you are occupied elsewhere.

I think as per the last line of the DD that the restoration flavour is there, but you will have to work really hard to actually get this to occur and I wouldn't imagine that the AI will be doing this very often at all, I also think that factions will weaken the empire and soften it up for muslim expansion.

 

[Alerias]

Sure factions will shake up big empires, but they'll likely be just as much a threat for the Seljuks and the Fatimids, if not more, than they are for the Byzantines. Once the first Seljuk ruler dies, anyhow, that guy is pretty kick ass.

 

[Theddude]

No kidding, is it too much work for someone at paradox to spend the ten minutes it takes to 'copy and paste' and 'find and replace', then add a unique ID?

Yes.

I'm not even talking about a unique ID or tag either, I suggested giving the Latin Empire an alternate set of creation requirements to serve as an Italian Empire without having to add a new idea. It also helps change the fact that as it stands, the LE title in the game is basically useless. It may as well not exist, given that you have to destroy Byzantium to get it; but that's the thing who in their right mind would choose LE over Byzantium, indisputably the best title in the game, with it's free ducal revokation powers? No, the LE should have some other use, or maybe allow it to be formed when a Catholic controls most of Greece, so it can be used as an intermediary title to usurping the Empire.

 

[General_BT]

Looking forward to this update with baited breath! And hey, I recognize the emperor in that first picture!

 

[Theddude]

Looking forward to this update with baited breath! And hey, I recognize the emperor in that first picture!

*bated breath. Not to be a pedant or anything but I actually just learned about this so I figured I should point it out. It's a semi-archaic verb related to the word "abate".

Off topic, I know. So I will say that I too am looking forward to LoR with bated breath!

 

[Orinsul]

*bated breath. Not to be a pedant or anything but I actually just learned about this so I figured I should point it out. It's a semi-archaic verb related to the word "abate".

Off topic, I know. So I will say that I too am looking forward to LoR with bated breath!

Sorry but if were being pedantic its learnt
But on the topic, the Patch does sound like itd be bigger than the DLC, unless theres plenty of events and event art or something that hasnt been mentioned in the DDs
Either way chances are none of the mods will work for a week, thats what worries me.

 

[Astanna]

Will it be possible to, ehm, lie about the birth date of one of your sons in order to kick him out of the purple / bring him into the purple and such?

 

[Federalist girl]

I disagree on this - if we're talking in terms of the game, in being named undisputed Roman Emperor, there were very strong notions of that involving Rome. Manuel Komnenos, while in talks about ending the schism with the Pope, was offered to be crowned Western Emperor by the Pope - in Rome, where Manuel was expected to take up residency. Rome was very much the lynchpin of legitimacy.

I think that if the game is saying 'you're now seen as the undisputed Roman Emperor' that would have to involve Rome - heavily.

I have to agree. The notion that Roma was no longer the capital of the Empire by the third and fourth centuries is a oft-bandied misconception. The city was no longer the seat of the emperor's court, but she never ceased being capital up to the very end of the Western Empire. Roma had unique privileges that no other city--not even Constantinopolis--had. Her Senate was the original Senate, and those members alone were entitled to be clarissimi. She had the unique grain dole--Constantinopolis eventually had one too, but on a lesser scale. She continued to possess the traditional republican magistracies to the end of the Empire. Roman imperial ideology continued to refer to the city on seven hills. Roma is and continued to be unique, and I would have to imagine (for westerners, anyway) that her later status as the papal city would have important symbolic significance. I don't know that the Greeks would ever accept their emperors moving from the Queen of Cities, but I don't know how much the West would accept the emperors not moving there; in the early stages of the dark ages, the East's imperial pedigree was unquestioned, but by the time period of the game... it's hard to say.

However, the in-game scenario of managing to reunite the Empire by force of arms might well impress a lot of people at the might of the one true remnant of the Roman Empire.