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Yesterday should have been a dev diary day, but I forgot that May 1 is actually some sort of Red holiday, and turning up to work gets you lined up against a wall and shot. However, this is not the time to discuss the mysterious idols, totems and faiths of the previous century. Let us instead think back much further, to simpler - if no less bloody - times, before Socialist May Day, before Christian Walpurgis Night, when the bonfires blazed for the Old Gods...

To begin with, religious Moral Authority has been revamped. The base value is now determined by the number of Holy Sites under the control of the religion. On top of this, there are various timed modifiers (think character opinions) for things like winning or losing holy wars, or building temples. This new system applies to all religions, not just the pagans. The pagan religions do tend to start with fewer Holy Sites under their control, but on the other hand there are no pagan heresies to worry about.

CKII_ToG_DD_04_Holy_Sites.jpg

Now, as mentioned in previous dev diaries, pagans enjoy a number of advantages, but they also suffer from some frustrating limitations. Foremost, perhaps, is that they are stuck with Gavelkind. Pagan vassals are also a lot more suspicious of new rulers on succession (harsher "short reign" opinions), they cannot demand conversion of vassals, and they are easily impressed by the cunning missionaries of the Abrahamic religions. To avoid these problems, pagans can of course simply give up the old ways and convert, but there is another option; pagan religions can be reformed in imitation of those clever monotheists. With a proper church hierarchy, a holy book, and standardized rituals, the pagan religions can become more competitive.

CKII_ToG_DD_04_Great_Holy_War.jpg

Reforming the faith is not easy; you need to control three of the holy sites and have a lot of Piety to boot. After reforming, your faith will be given a religious head. In the case of Norse Pagans, the character who conducted the reformation will become the Fylkir, serving as both secular ruler and religious leader in much the same way as an Islamic Caliph. You may now declare holy wars, both great pagan Crusades and regular religious wars against infidels. Other pagan religions get a vassal religious head, like the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople.

CKII_ToG_DD_04_Fylkirate.jpg

There are tradeoffs to reforming the faith, however. You will lose the Subjugation casus belli and the defensive home attrition, and the unreformed version of your religion will become a heresy (which can cause problems for you.) As a pagan, you will normally want to grow quickly using your invasion and subjugation CBs, and then try to either reform your religion or convert in order to consolidate and stabilize your realm...

That's all for now. Next week's topic is special pagan events and decisions!

[video=youtube;yoF84KVR9F8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoF84KVR9F8[/video]
[video=youtube_share;vYxB1O-XGk0]http://youtu.be/vYxB1O-XGk0[/video]

Bonus! Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods expansion in-depth Q&A at PC Gamer
Everything you want to know, but haven´t dared to ask?
“It’s less than a month until the longships land to bring us The Old Gods, the pagan-focused expansion for Crusader Kings II. We’ve been keeping close tabs on new details at our Viking Analysis Desk, and today, we’ve got some extra meaty details for you. Below you’ll find our massive Q&A with project lead Henrik Fåhraeus, covering everything from concubines to pagan sacred kings.”
Read the full Q&A here: http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/05/01/crusader-kings-2-the-old-gods-in-depth-qa/


Web page: http://www.crusaderkings.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/Crusaderkings
Twitter: http://twitter.com/Crusaderkings
 
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Exactly - I have nothing agains Norse or vikings. I just wanted to get a Pagan DLC, not a Awesome Cool Viking DLC With Some Minor Flavour For Whatstheirname :sigh:

CLEARLY only what is announced in the first three dev diaries is everything thats going to be in the game. EVERYBODY PANIC!!!!!

I am, of course, being sarcastic. Calm down, there is more to come.

By the by if you have some neat ideas for your favorite pagan group, feel free to make them in another thread (they will be buried in this one) and people can discuss them.
 
I think we should be able to find the writings of Socrates (yes I know there aren't any direct writings) buried somewhere in a vault in Greece and get the chance to adopt a Socratic religion, which can be reformed to Atheism when the character has at least -2000 piety and has taken the option to desecrate the religious sites of at least 5 other religions. What do you guys think?
 
Speaking of West African Pagans, will Mali be properly Pagan in 867 and 1066, because I believe they weren't officially converted until later. Of course it made sense to make them Muslim so they weren't just adding a new area that you couldn't play, but now that the Pagans are coming maybe they make it properly Pagan. In fact, in 1066 I guess along with Romuva and Tengri they might have a shot at surviving, actually it really just seems like the Norse were the only ones who were really inevitably screwed by 1066.
 
Speaking of West African Pagans, will Mali be properly Pagan in 867 and 1066, because I believe they weren't officially converted until later. Of course it made sense to make them Muslim so they weren't just adding a new area that you couldn't play, but now that the Pagans are coming maybe they make it properly Pagan. In fact, in 1066 I guess along with Romuva and Tengri they might have a shot at surviving, actually it really just seems like the Norse were the only ones who were really inevitably screwed by 1066.

Much of West Africa wasn't completely converted until a couple of centuries ago (Fulani Jihads and all that), and even nowadays elements of traditional West African beliefs remain. From what I know, during the medieval era, many people in West Africa were still pagan, even in Muslim-ruled areas. At the least, even if they were nominally Muslim, they still kept many pagan beliefs and traditions. Heck, many of the "Muslim" West African rulers were perfectly happy in continuing some pagan rituals and traditions even as they considered themselves devout Muslims.

I dunno if TOG will take into account the rather complex situation in West Africa, though. At the least they should get some cool flavor events - stuff about the Saharan trade routes, Griots, all that good stuff.
 
Much of West Africa wasn't completely converted until a couple of centuries ago (Fulani Jihads and all that), and even nowadays elements of traditional West African beliefs remain. From what I know, during the medieval era, many people in West Africa were still pagan, even in Muslim-ruled areas. At the least, even if they were nominally Muslim, they still kept many pagan beliefs and traditions. Heck, many of the "Muslim" West African rulers were perfectly happy in continuing some pagan rituals and traditions even as they considered themselves devout Muslims.

I dunno if TOG will take into account the rather complex situation in West Africa, though. At the least they should get some cool flavor events - stuff about the Saharan trade routes, Griots, all that good stuff.

It would probably be best if they have the rulers convert when they did historically, and just leave the provinces Pagan until the last start date, maybe excepting the capital. That would probably be a decent approximation since Muslims don't use inquisitions they'll slowly turn partly Muslim over time.
 
At the duchy level all titles use the same succession, so elective would be one election for all titles, rather than election for each individual title. So I imagine that's why.
I was referring to that duchies and counties follow the king title. It should be possible to lose the king title and still keep the duchy, or lose some duchies but not the king.
 
Every time Doomdark say Casus Belli I go off into a trance sing Casus Belli from the EU4 musical
 
Isn't the trick to gavelkind basically to "just" keep one main title? I mean, it doesn't matter how many duchies in Sweden you have, as long as you make you're just the King of Denmark (IE, do not form the Kingdom of Sweden). Your sons all inherit the Swedish duchies, but they're still vassals of your firstborn, the king of Denmark.
 
Yup and then the bloody civil war starts between all your sons :) Which is fun! Primogeniture is boring, too easily you can build your power, ultimogeniture is weird, elective is too risky when you have realm big enough. The best imho are tanistry and seniority - then you can feel that you're playing as a dynasty, not one character.
 
I know, but that makes starting game kinda streamlined - all efforts towards reforming.

Gavelkind is not the end of the world, and with all the advantages the pagans get it seems reasonable enough. Personally I'm already considering how to mod reforming to be more difficult as it sounds too easy to me. I'm thinking either minimum year 1000 or ALL the religious holy sites.

At any rate, upon reforming you lose some of the advantages you had, so it's not necessarily the best strategy to immediately reform.
 
I know, but that makes starting game kinda streamlined - all efforts towards reforming.

Not really... you're also fully capable of escaping Gavelkind by converting to one of the Abrahamic faiths (or maybe Zoroastrianism as well? No word on that yet, though a Zoroastrian Norway would bring a new meaning to a "Song of Ice and Fire".) Reformation is only required if you wish to pursue keeping your old faith long term. Even then, if you get big and scary enough it wouldn't be necessary... just means you're stuck in Gavelkind, which is hardly the end of the world.
 
They should rework gavelkind in my opinion, because right now it's a mess. It would be better if you were able to choose which title(s) you give to each son.