Yesterday should have been a dev diary day, but I forgot that May 1 is actually some sort of Red holiday, and turning up to work gets you lined up against a wall and shot. However, this is not the time to discuss the mysterious idols, totems and faiths of the previous century. Let us instead think back much further, to simpler - if no less bloody - times, before Socialist May Day, before Christian Walpurgis Night, when the bonfires blazed for the Old Gods...

To begin with, religious Moral Authority has been revamped. The base value is now determined by the number of Holy Sites under the control of the religion. On top of this, there are various timed modifiers (think character opinions) for things like winning or losing holy wars, or building temples. This new system applies to all religions, not just the pagans. The pagan religions do tend to start with fewer Holy Sites under their control, but on the other hand there are no pagan heresies to worry about.



Now, as mentioned in previous dev diaries, pagans enjoy a number of advantages, but they also suffer from some frustrating limitations. Foremost, perhaps, is that they are stuck with Gavelkind. Pagan vassals are also a lot more suspicious of new rulers on succession (harsher "short reign" opinions), they cannot demand conversion of vassals, and they are easily impressed by the cunning missionaries of the Abrahamic religions. To avoid these problems, pagans can of course simply give up the old ways and convert, but there is another option; pagan religions can be reformed in imitation of those clever monotheists. With a proper church hierarchy, a holy book, and standardized rituals, the pagan religions can become more competitive.



Reforming the faith is not easy; you need to control three of the holy sites and have a lot of Piety to boot. After reforming, your faith will be given a religious head. In the case of Norse Pagans, the character who conducted the reformation will become the Fylkir, serving as both secular ruler and religious leader in much the same way as an Islamic Caliph. You may now declare holy wars, both great pagan Crusades and regular religious wars against infidels. Other pagan religions get a vassal religious head, like the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople.



There are tradeoffs to reforming the faith, however. You will lose the Subjugation casus belli and the defensive home attrition, and the unreformed version of your religion will become a heresy (which can cause problems for you.) As a pagan, you will normally want to grow quickly using your invasion and subjugation CBs, and then try to either reform your religion or convert in order to consolidate and stabilize your realm...

That's all for now. Next week's topic is special pagan events and decisions!

[video=youtube;yoF84KVR9F8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoF84KVR9F8[/video]
[video=youtube_share;vYxB1O-XGk0]http://youtu.be/vYxB1O-XGk0[/video]

Bonus! Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods expansion in-depth Q&A at PC Gamer
Everything you want to know, but haven´t dared to ask?
“It’s less than a month until the longships land to bring us The Old Gods, the pagan-focused expansion for Crusader Kings II. We’ve been keeping close tabs on new details at our Viking Analysis Desk, and today, we’ve got some extra meaty details for you. Below you’ll find our massive Q&A with project lead Henrik Fåhraeus, covering everything from concubines to pagan sacred kings.”
Read the full Q&A here: http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/05/01/crusader-kings-2-the-old-gods-in-depth-qa/


Web page: http://www.crusaderkings.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/Crusaderkings
Twitter: http://twitter.com/Crusaderkings

 

[unmerged(607699)]

How accepting will lords be about the whole reforming thing? The norse were very anti-organisation, even the act of uniting norway was seen as radical.

Hows outlawry? Shouldn't Harald Fairhair be able to banish all his enemies to iceland without being declared a tyrant by his own people? In fact in norse culture outlawry was the only just punishment other than fines.

 

[cybrxkhan]

This doesn't really remove my concerns about pagan reformation. I really hope this is something like the formation of the Roman Empire in LoR, which is something the AI will almost never do but it's an option available to the player if they wish. Yes, I'm sort of one of those "this isn't historically plausible blah blah blah" people, but I'll accept that this is good fun and don't mind that, I just don't want every pagan religion magically reforming itself out of the blue.

Interesting stuff, though.

 

[zombieflanders]

This doesn't really remove my concerns about pagan reformation. I really hope this is something like the formation of the Roman Empire in LoR, which is something the AI will almost never do but it's an option available to the player if they wish. Yes, I'm sort of one of those "this isn't historically plausible blah blah blah" people, but I'll accept that this is good fun and don't mind that, I just don't want every pagan religion magically reforming itself out of the blue.

Interesting stuff, though.

The PC Gamer interview mentions it's something that the AI will probably never do:

With something ahistorical like pagan reformations, is this something we will see happening pretty uniformly in the 867 start, or will it be a bit less likely to see the AI go for it?

You should almost never see the AI attain this. The AI will tend to convert to an Abrahamic faith long before it can take three Holy Sites and get enough Piety.

 

[cybrxkhan]

The PC Gamer interview mentions it's something that the AI will probably never do:

Ah, right, I forgot about that. Good then. I really hope that will be the case.

In any case I also hope the reformation thingy will be difficult for the player to achieve to, as a sort of great achievement to brag about and not something you can do willy-nilly.

 

[Hazzy]

Holy Chościsko, Batman!

I mean, seriously you took Popiel's dynastic name from Gallus Anonymous' chronicle which is super fine. It means we can have Piast vs Choscisko Game of (Polish) Throne shenanigans. (less cowardly stabbing, more glorious battles, tough)

But seriously please tell me where did you put them, please ;p Is it Lesser Poland?

 

[CzokletMuss]

Doomdark, would you be so kind and tell us something about Slavs? I'm concerned that the majority of goodies in the upcoming DLC will go to the Norse. Will we hear something about Slav religion sometime soon?

 

[Strangedane]

How accepting will lords be about the whole reforming thing? The norse were very anti-organisation, even the act of uniting norway was seen as radical.

Hows outlawry? Shouldn't Harald Fairhair be able to banish all his enemies to iceland without being declared a tyrant by his own people? In fact in norse culture outlawry was the only just punishment other than fines.

This times a million.

A Dane, ca. 900, if caught stealing or worse, would be sentenced to death by bloodied eagle or walking the pole.
A bloodied eagle was having your ribcage carved open and your ribs broken and turned around to form "wings" on the back.
Walking the pole, was getting your abdomen opened and your intestines wrapped around a pole, then you walked away from the pole to prove your worth.
Seeing as both these punishments where always lethal, it's not a big wonder that being exiled was a choice the perpetrator could almost always choose.

The norse should not get tyranny for banishing people, it was always the lesser of 2 evils.

 

[Dattish]

Ah, right, I forgot about that. Good then. I really hope that will be the case.

In any case I also hope the reformation thingy will be difficult for the player to achieve to, as a sort of great achievement to brag about and not something you can do willy-nilly.

Watching the video, it doesn't look too difficult, as 3 of the Norse sites are split among the de jure Kingdoms, while the other 2 are in East Francia and Frisia.

 

[The Kingmaker]

Would love to know what the Slavic pagan holy sites are... please?

 

[codeGnave]

This has me excited!
Question though: What tier are heads of reformed Pagan faiths? I am assuming that they are ducal tier, since the Eastern and Coptic churches have a ducal tier head, but what a ducal tier player reforms the faith? Or is being a King one of the requirements?

 

[Orinsul]

All looks awesome!

As to exiling, probably no one should get tyranny for doing it, atleast for doing it with just cause, so its probably there as a balance rather than historical perspective. As when used on landed characters it steals the titles too and as im guessing the two cant be divided then infamy is needed to stop it being an exploit.

 

[unmerged(607699)]

This times a million.

A Dane, ca. 900, if caught stealing or worse, would be sentenced to death by bloodied eagle or walking the pole.
A bloodied eagle was having your ribcage carved open and your ribs broken and turned around to form "wings" on the back.
Walking the pole, was getting your abdomen opened and your intestines wrapped around a pole, then you walked away from the pole to prove your worth.
Seeing as both these punishments where always lethal, it's not a big wonder that being exiled was a choice the perpetrator could almost always choose.

The norse should not get tyranny for banishing people, it was always the lesser of 2 evils.

Wait where's your source for that? The blood eagle is what the saxons say Ívar The boneless did to King Ælle for killing his father (and how they explained it would be medically impossible) and when thieves were caught the lord would usually slit the nostril as a sign of dishonor but this was not a legal practice done by the þing.

 

[unmerged(237533)]

What about the Zoroastrian holy sights? I assume they correspond to the old sights of the sacred fires? Or just major persian centres?

 

[superskierpat]

Wait where's your source for that? The blood eagle is what the saxons say Ívar The boneless did to King Ælle for killing his father (and how they explained it would be medically impossible) and when thieves were caught the lord would usually slit the nostril as a sign of dishonor but this was not a legal practice done by the þing.

Isn't that the modus operandi of the serial killer in the Hannibal tv series?

 

[Voy]

As to exiling, probably no one should get tyranny for doing it, atleast for doing it with just cause, so its probably there as a balance rather than historical perspective. As when used on landed characters it steals the titles too and as im guessing the two cant be divided then infamy is needed to stop it being an exploit.

Naa... the penalty exist because other feel threatened by the punishment. Vassals enjoy freedom over dangerous lieges.

 

[Ciccillo Rre]

I like the DD, but I did not appreciate at all the initial comment on May 1st.

 

[Lord Xia]

I like the DD, but I did not appreciate at all the initial comment on May 1st.

Why not?

 

[Darkgamma]

I like the DD, but I did not appreciate at all the initial comment on May 1st.

That is rather bland and beige when compared to mainstream Scandinavian humour (for example, in this one Swedish comedy, whose name I can't recall, the funniest scene is, apparently, the scene where the criminal executes a cow with a pistol to the forehead)

 

[Oriflamme]

The revamp to religious moral authority based on holy sites will hopefully help keep Muslim authority high enough to keep all of Africa from caving to Christianity, which seems to happen by 1150 in the original game start bookmark. Also, it should make Jerusalem a real target to strive for as a Catholic, beyond just being scripted as such in the Crusades. I am very hopeful, yay!

I really hope you're right.

 

[Sotof]

That is rather bland and beige when compared to mainstream Scandinavian humour (for example, in this one Swedish comedy, whose name I can't recall, the funniest scene is, apparently, the scene where the criminal executes a cow with a pistol to the forehead)

That's Danish, and it's called Blinkende Lygter.

Edit: Scene.