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Dev Diary #101 - Saints and Ancestors

Hello there! Another week, another Dev Diary!


This week we are going to take a look at the Saints, their potential Pagan counterparts, and how they will work in Holy Fury.


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After the death of a pious Christian character, there is a chance for the Pope/Patriarch/local bishop to decide to beatify them. This is how they’re shown to be truly pious Christians. There will be an announcement sent out to the dynasty as well as the ones in the realm of the character. A beatified character gets a special trait, and a chance to later on be canonized.


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If they do indeed go on to become Saints, another announcement message will be sent out to all Christians of the same faith, as well as their dynasty members. The character in question will be given a special nickname, a miracle will be associated with him/her (this is mostly for flavour) and they will be given a special bloodline. Note, any Christian with a religious head can become canonized, not only Catholics.


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The Saint will have their burial site made public, usually in their capital or another nearby province in the form of a Province Modifier. This gives a permanent benefit for whoever holds the Burial Site, as well as some new flavor events that might happen. Any church holdings in the province will be able to create a small shrine to the local Saint. As well, if any raiders were to drop by the province, they might loot and ruin the burial site for some extra gold and prestige.


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A new icon and menu have been added to the religion screen for Christians, where they can check all the Saints that have been created for their faith throughout the game. We figured it would be a handy way of keeping track of everything.


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For those enjoying pilgrimages and traveling, we have added a new option and event chain to travel to a Saint’s burial site. It will find 4 relevant burial sites of Saints created throughout the game. If there isn’t 4 existing in the game yet, there will be up to 3 placeholders filling those spots. Hopefully it will be an interesting change of pace from the regular pilgrimages.


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If the Catholics are led by a particularly terrible Pope, you might even see the cases of “Impious Saints” as we call them. In the worst case scenarios, this can end up with all of Catholicism embroiled in a massive war, fighting for the piety of the Holy See. The impious Saint in question will get a Bloodline as well, but it doesn’t quite bring as many benefits as most other bloodlines do.


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For those of you who don’t care particularly much about Catholics, or Christians in general, we have added a new Reformation doctrine where one can take on the benefits of Saints into your pagan faith. Instead of caring about such silly things as “Piety”, “Humbleness” or other supposed positive traits, the Venerated Ancestors will be based on things your religion cares about. So if you reform your religion to be a warlike one, one is more likely to become a Venerated Ancestor if you do things that are warlike.


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For those of you preferring to lead religions yourself, you will occasionally be given the choice of people the religion will venerate as a worthy ancestor. The dynasty of the character in question will, of course, be very appreciative of their family member being venerated as an Ancestor.

Saints & Ancestors 16.png



For the characters receiving that honor, there is a whole slew of new special bloodlines attached to them, as well some special nicknames.


Hopefully you enjoyed this little peek into the upcoming feature for CK2, and we are excited to hear your thoughts on it. Until next time!
 
So? It's AI, it's not like it has rights or anything. The concept of fairness doesn't apply.

It does apply. This are some huge bonuses for the player the AI would never get. Would make the game absolutelly boring if the player is the only one getting boni. You know that sounds really unbalanced?
 
I don't know if anybody noticed, but look at this picture:
Saints%20%26%20Ancestors%2014.png

At religious head, to be specific: he's tribal, not theocracy. And he's human player. Implies Temporal.
But he's wearing religious headgear, and he's called Vaidila (priest), implying Theocracy. So, what happened here? Could you clarify, @Snow Crystal?
 
he's called Vaidila (priest), implying Theocracy. So, what happened here?
The Reformed Religious Heads have been given specific titles, like Fylkir, so that, when picking Temporal Leadership, you will not have to be saddled with the generic "High Priest Whoever" title for any non-Norse religion.
 
The Reformed Religious Heads have been given specific titles, like Fylkir, so that, when picking Temporal Leadership, you will not have to be saddled with the generic "High Priest Whoever" title for any non-Norse religion.
Ah, so titles do not change depending on whether reformation is Temporal or not? Hierocratic Norse religious head will still be called "Fylkir", rather than something more "popish", like "heilagur faðir".
It's a pity. I though Temporal religious head would have different title reflecting his semi-secular character, like "šventas karalius" for Romuva, for example.
 
While I like the idea of a sainthood system, giving them a bloodline seems like a bit much. I feel like this will make way too many bloodlines and then they'll became way less interesting. Mathematically, given enough time our latest common ancestor will get closer and closer, so eventually you'll get dynasties that have like 12 bloodlines if there is no way to prevent it.

bloodlines are only ever passed down via fathers or mothers, never both. so bloodline mixing will be very hard. (say you mat marry them into your dynasty, cool that section of your dynasty only has that bloodline because the wife you married that guy to doesn't have the original bloodline you're trying to splice together) so to get multiple bloodlines, you need someone who has a bloodline to gain another bloodline.

or you could keep divine marrying together brothers and sisters that have a maternal bloodline with a paternal one...
 
Are you guys sure about that Player-only thing? I have seen no dev comments on this in the thread.

Snow Crystal said it'd be "landed characters only". It's apparently not limited to 1 per player but further canonizations become "less likely to happen if you already have a Saintly Bloodline in your dynasty".

He also said on reddit that canonizations would become more or less likely when too many or too few saints are canonized at once, and that it'd average to about 15-20 over the course of a full game, for the whole of christianity (and most of them sould be catholic or orthodox barring player intervention)
 
Hey there, I was wondering if you have a character which has all the requirement for beeing venerated as an ancestor before the reforming of the faith,
let's say rurik rurikid is a brilliant conqueror and builds a massive empire and fullfils all the requirements and then 2 generation later the faith gets reformed with all the doctrines necessary to have him venerated, could said character be venerated retroactively?

lastly what are the different types of "piety" that can get a character venerated is it just warlike or pious depending on the reformation?

Otherwise awsome dev diary, it feels good to see good mod flavor events beeing implemented as fully functionning features and expanded upon.
 
The Reformed Religious Heads have been given specific titles, like Fylkir, so that, when picking Temporal Leadership, you will not have to be saddled with the generic "High Priest Whoever" title for any non-Norse religion.
Cool. As most of us know the reformed pagan religious head (and pretty much any non-papal) title is ducal. Will this effect kings' and emperors' vassal relations? Or will "holds too many ducal titles" only affect de jure landed titles?
 
Cool. As most of us know the reformed pagan religious head (and pretty much any non-papal) title is ducal. Will this effect kings' and emperors' vassal relations? Or will "holds too many ducal titles" only affect de jure landed titles?
It's been a while since I last played germanic but I could swear the fylkirate wasn't taken into account when calculating my "Too many duchy" penalty. I think nonreligious titular ducal titles (eg powys) do, though.
 
More like give him a penalty for doing bad.
After all karma is justice
sure but if you're so evil it escaped into your bloodline, then i think you're powerful enough to give justice the finger.

in reality, i think it should make your events when in those societies more successful, along with some stat bonuses, but then also a -.5 or -1 health.
 
sure but if you're so evil it escaped into your bloodline, then i think you're powerful enough to give justice the finger.

in reality, i think it should make your events when in those societies more successful, along with some stat bonuses, but then also a -.5 or -1 health.
Tbh ofc thats my opinion but doesnt make any sense. If u do bad things u get bad things. And either u or ur children pay for it. It is already good how it is since devil worship in game is OP.
 
Tbh ofc thats my opinion but doesnt make any sense. If u do bad things u get bad things. And either u or ur children pay for it. It is already good how it is since devil worship in game is OP.

but. the whole society revolves around sacrificing health for power, I think a bloodline associated with that, would do just that, make you better at sacrificing life for power, by making you go through the society faster, and by making your skills more powerful in that society. like I think it should give an extra +1 points for the society, -1 health and increased success rate, or maybe faster notoriety decay or something. along with maybe a +2 learning or something.

and yes it is powerful, but you usually start gaining some hefty maluses to health that can only be stopped by eating people's life force, and then you're insane and horribly deformed and dying. this bloodline would just speed all of that up, and make you weak with -1 health even if you don't join the society.

just my opinion on how a bloodline like that should be handled. I don't see why doing too well at the society should be punished, other than abstract moral/karmic reasons.

the benefits and the -1 health, form an addictive bond between the bloodline and the society.