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Dev Diary 11: Stopping The Snowball

Hey! So today we will talk about some mechanics we’ve added to make other rulers react to what happens in the world. We want to slow down the snowball and prolong the time it takes to conquer the world, so it shouldn’t be as easy to do. Snowballs are pretty evil, just like medieval rulers.

Just as with the shattered retreat mechanic we took inspiration from Europa Universalis 4 in our decision to add Coalitions. Our coalitions however are based on an Infamy value instead of Aggressive Expansion. You might recognize the name Infamy from our old games, but even though it shares the name it will work quite differently.

Infamy is limited to be within the range of 0 to 100% and will slowly decay over time based on how strong your max military potential is. When you hit 25% infamy, coalitions will be unlocked and AIs will start joining them based on how threatened they feel.Your infamy will serve as a hint on how aggressive and dangerous other rulers think your realm is. You gain infamy primarily by conquering land through war or by inheriting a fair maidens huge tracts of land.

The amount of Infamy you gain is based on the action you do, how much land you take and how large your realm already is. So for instance the Kaiser of the HRE declaring a war for Flanders and taking it is going to make the neighbours more worried than if Pomerania manages to take Mecklenburg.
capture(56).png


Coalitions themselves are mostly defensive in Crusader Kings, if any member gets attacked by the target of the coalition they will automatically be called into the war. If a member starts a war against the target they only get a normal call to arms which they can choose to decline.

For an AI to join a coalition they will consider the relative strength between the target and themselves, how threatened they think they are and how much infamy the target has accrued. You can view the current coalition someone has against them by the diplomacy field on the character screen.

capture(54).png


But it might not be the easiest way to view it so we also added a mapmode to more easily visualize Coalitions. A nation which turns up white is the nation you have currently selected, blue will be targetable for coalitions, yellow means they have a coalition against them and Red means they are members of the coalition against the currently selected one.

capture(55).jpg
 
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I don't like this.

Instead of this, I'm almost in favour of bringing back the old "distance raises revolt risk" modifier.
 
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Emre Yigit said:
I don't like this.

Instead of this, I'm almost in favour of bringing back the old "distance raises revolt risk" modifier.
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Which isn't right either... As Frederick ruled the HRE from Sicily... Northern Germany was less rebelious than Southern Germany ;) They were so far from the emperor, that they didn't care about him.
 
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Thure said:
Which isn't right either... As Frederick ruled the HRE from Sicily... Northern Germany was less rebelious than Southern Germany ;) They were so far from the emperor, that they didn't care about him.
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I agree, which is why I said "almost". :)
 
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Do you gain infamy for titles you gain from other people pressing your claim? Or by a faction (that you are neither leader nor member) installing you?
 
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AE could not fit in a game like CK2.

I hope that Infamy will be tied to religion or culture. If England attacks Welsh, the Welsh lords should care a lot, but if the English King is welsh, the should not care as much.
Also holy war should only increase infamy with lords of other religions, but not with their own religion.
 
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Groogy said:
Will be pretty much that if you are the aggressor yes.
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Hmm. Does being a member of a coalition grant a separate/unique CB, or does a coalition member need to use a normal CB to declare war? If the latter, I can see this running into the same issue as currently exists, where a Muslim can take a whole kingdom in one war, but Christians can only take duchies, with the exception of crusades.

On a related note, do coalition members get a truce if they are called into an aggressive coalition war? That is, when one aggressive coalition war ends, can another coalition member immediately declare a new aggressive coalition war, and call everyone in again?

Also, will there be a way to see which coalition members will be willing to answer a call to arms for an aggressive coalition war? My understanding was that this uncertainty was removed from normal alliance mechanic by separating alliances into non-aggression pacts and alliances, the latter of which would always accept call to arms. However, if coalitions will retain the current CTA system, knowing who will join in an aggressive war prior to declaring will be vital (and something the ruler would logically know ahead of time).
 
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This is pretty cool stuff. Do those in a coalition who win over the aggressor gain any titles or do they perhaps force the aggressor to give some of his vassals independence?
 
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The only thing I hope is that this only applies to large realms. When I play Ireland in the 1066 start, I start in Dublin, and my aim is to conquer just the counties to create both Mide and Leinster. And that is where I would stop, and focus on Realm management and spreading my dynasy out through other means, like marraige.

Would the same exact penalties that apply to the HRE invading France also apply to me? If so, then we're back to the small fry taking the hit while the Empires laugh and go back to what they were doing before...
 
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deserk said:
This is pretty cool stuff. Do those in a coalition who win over the aggressor gain any titles or do they perhaps force the aggressor to give some of his vassals independence?
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From how I read it, coalitions don't get any claims or justifications to declare war. So a coalition is primarily defensive, and can only take your land if a member already has claims on it and declares war using those claims.
 
Seeing what kind of mess EU4 became after coalitions were introduced, I fear the worst.
Serious bugs survived many patches and hotfixes, while poisoning the gameplay for months.

To get what?

Limitations who punish the successful player?

...aside for the fact not everyone plays to "Conquer the World" (and should not, in turn, be forced to learn new game mechanics), paid customers should be able to have fun if they want, no matter if that means painting half the map with your color...

Besides, "The Core of CK2 is Characters" has already been written in this topic (stated from years by you devs, to explain the main differences with EU4), why do nations suddenly get this spotlight?

If you insert new features, you could make the game more interesting for Characters.
 
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Checco said:
Seeing what kind of mess EU4 became after coalitions were introduced, I fear the worst.
Serious bugs survived many patches and hotfixes, while poisoning the gameplay for months.

To get what?

Limitations who punish the successful player?

...aside for the fact not everyone plays to "Conquer the World" (and should not, in turn, be forced to learn new game mechanics), paid customers should be able to have fun if they want, no matter if that means painting half the map with your color...

Besides, "The Core of CK2 is Characters" has already been written in this topic (stated from years by you devs, to explain the main differences with EU4), why do nations suddenly get this spotlight?

If you insert new features, you could make the game more interesting for Characters.
Click to expand...
No in order to provice a challenge for ethernally blobbing players the AI needs to be eternally blobbing too. Which doesn't mix well with players who don't play to blob.
 
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Why are we not seriously discussing the Buy Hedgehog option? What options of hedgehogs can we buy, and will any of them be bears in disguise?
 
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...I'll wait and see how this turns out, but I think something to help distabilise the realm from inside rather than outside will be better for CK2. Coalitions work in EU4 because that game lacks internal politics, but one of the best things about CK2 is the balancing act within a nation, which you seem to here be lessening, for some reason. You're making it more like EU4, which I don't think any of us wants.

Still, as I said, I'll reserve my judgement. The only thing I'm really, really against is how inheriting land also gives you infamy. That seems wildly unfair, and removes incentive to use intrigue and diplomacy to expand. They're limited tools anyway, but the main advantages of inheritance-planning is that it doesn't put your nation at risk militarily- which you've just got rid of. Not happy about that at all- I can't see any way this won't make it less fun.
 
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Abnwtwtud said:
Why are we not seriously discussing the Buy Hedgehog option? What options of hedgehogs can we buy, and will any of them be bears in disguise?
Click to expand...

An interesting thing to note: The HRE appears to be able to "buy hedgehogs" from the Seljuks, but the Jimenas in dev diary 7 could not do it from one another. Something only possible versus religious enemies? Against distant targets?
 
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Is infamy based on title or dynasty? E.g., if I am Duke of Bavaria and get elected Holy Roman Emperor because Heinrich has no surviving sons, do I inherit his infamy, or just keep my own?

If I am emperor of Byzantium and land my heir, does he suddenly get a massive boost of infamy for "inheriting the Byzantine Empire" when I die, in addition to what he would get from my normal conquests?
 
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