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Dev Diary #113 - Community Choice Event Pack

Greetings!

We’re all back, gathered from the holidays, and ready to set sail for 2023! Actually, most of us have been back for a few weeks by this point, working away on this year's big release, but we're not going to be talking about that just yet. That's not to say we're not going to in the future, but until we are ready to, we want to give you something to dig your teeth into as a community. This is the first of a small series of Dev Diaries about some more minor things, teasers, and today, about a brand-new community initiative!
But first, here’s a small teaser of something coming in the expansion:
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[Image - Teaser]

Later this year, after we’ve released the next big expansion and before we start working on the next large project, we’ll have a period where we have the time and opportunity to work on an event pack. For the last event pack we chose ‘friends and foes’ as the core theme, as it was something practically everyone in the team felt strongly about, and something that needed more content in the game. Since then, we’ve had so many ideas for future event packs, both from within the team and outside, and this time it’s harder to choose…

Therefore we’d like to invite all of you to help us decide which theme to pick! We have three themes that we’ve curated, which means a few things; each theme has designers on the team that are passionate about them, and we know roughly what free feature we’d like to add to the update that will accompany the event pack: generally we'll be aiming for something with a similar size and impact as Friends & Foes' Memories system, which heavily ties into the events we're making but is relevant across the game as a whole.

We don’t have final names for the event packs yet, but as we enjoy alliteration here’s what we’re calling them and a very brief description of each:

Wards & Wardens - Anything childhood-related, with themes such as: playing as a child, being a guardian, handling children in court, and so on. A deep dive into what being a child in the Middle Ages was actually like, and what guardianship meant in practical terms.

Love & Lust - An exploration of more intimate relationships, with themes such as: expanded seduction, romance, married life, and so on. This would be a great time to allow lovers and spouses to take on a larger role in the game.

Villains & Vagabonds - Events and content around Dread and Tyranny, exploring what it means to be dreaded, leveraging your fearsome reputation, making dread more visible, and the consequences and opportunities of being a tyrant. It’d also be interesting to explore the other side of the coin from Dread - fairness, and honor.

Even though this event pack is something we’ll work on later this year, it’s good to get your input now - this way we can start working on it without delay as soon as the next big expansion is out! As we have a lot of talented event-crafters on the design team, we feel quite confident that we can adapt to whatever theme you, as a community, choose.

If this turns out to be a popular activity, it is possible that we will do it again in the future! The themes that do not get chosen this time will likely make a comeback, alongside some new challengers.

The poll to vote is located in a separate forum thread here. Voting will begin today and you will have until January 27, 8am CET to discuss the different themes and cast your vote. We’re looking forward to seeing which theme you like the most!


EventPackThemeVote.png
 
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villains and vagabonds for sure. though I would like it for wards to have an effect on diplomacy, like not being able to join a faction against your liege or declare war on them if your child is their guardian, to represent the usage of guardianship as insurance against rebellion or war.
 
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I’d love more ways to interact with family, so both L&L and W&W have their appeal, but I don’t usually play a seducer character, and I almost never play as a child unless I start as one.

I would love it if V&V did indeed boost ‘honorable play’ as much as villainous, or if it added non-violent ways to undermine one’s rivals. I’ve never taken the intrigue lifestyle since my first attempt, as there was no tree allowing me to focus on underhanded but non-violent politicking, Let me plot to destroy someone’s confidence, reputation, family relationships, alliances, and the like, and I’ll vote for V&V. But if it’s more ways to be violent, then it’s not a pack I would buy (and that’s fine).

I’ll probably vote for L&L in the hopes that you’ll fix the missing/broken triggers, etc., but I’ll wait a bit for more dev replies as those might change my vote.

Thanks for letting us vote!
 
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I'd go with Wards and Wardens, the relationships between wards and their guardian could do with some more content (plus hopefully relationships/friendships between co-wards)... followed EXTREMELY closely by Love and Lust because we need some more events about normal family life, PLUS it will most likely help solve my pet peve of soul-mates and spouses with traits that should prevent them from cheating from committing adultery.
 
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I didn't think it was that bad as the Steam Reviews have shown it. For me it was always an completely optional DLC as the Patch around it was solid. It also came out in the worst time around the price increase debacle.
I dunno, for me this DLC is the equivalent of selling extra lines of dialogue in an RPG. And the events themselves feel like the devs desperately want them to become memes instead of writing something interesting.
 
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I want love & lust because I want events for my WIFE and to make the wife council role more consistent and usable (I have to be married and she can't be a ruler to use it?!?)

But the way its pitched i feel like it'll be orgies and cheating as usual.

Ward events are also very universal and just simply do need their own pack. Also regencies when?

Don't give a poop about villains and dread. The mechanic is OP but you don't necessarily need to use it. Hard time imagining what i'd get here.
 
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I have to respectfully disagree with this. I HATED the old message system and I'm glad its gone. I always thought it was poorly explained and fiddly, plus you had to manually reset it after every update.

Just because a previous implementation had issues does not mean that a new implementation would share those issues. While it is a possibility that any new message settings system will also be difficult to use, it is also a possibility that experience with the previous implementation and other implementations built since then can be used to make a message settings system that is easy/easier to use.

And, issues or not, there are valid reasons that people want message settings and they are compelling enough that it is the most up-voted suggestion thread by a significant margin.
 
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Just because a previous implementation had issues does not mean that a new implementation would share those issues. While it is a possibility that any new message settings system will also be difficult to use, it is also a possibility that experience with the previous implementation and other implementations built since then can be used to make a message settings system that is easy/easier to use.

And, issues or not, there are valid reasons that people want message settings and they are compelling enough that it is the most up-voted suggestion thread by a significant margin.
Meanwhile, there’s the Configurable News Feed, currently maintained by FunGaming44 (thanks!)

I hope the devs can implement a similar system. I simply won’t play without this mod, and FunGaming44 is now the third person to keep it running.

Edit: auto correct is an idiot. /lol
 
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I have to respectfully disagree with this. I HATED the old message system and I'm glad its gone. I always thought it was poorly explained and fiddly, plus you had to manually reset it after every update.
Well, you could just not use it, and then you'd have that CK3 has today - message settings the way the devs set them up. :)

As for resets, I don't think it happened every update, but I agree it's a heck of an annoyance if it happens. Easy to fix - just have it save message settings. They could even set up saving different presets, like we can do with Character Finder searches, and it'd be an actual feature improvement from what we had in CK2. :)
 
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Yet undecided, though leaning rather either towards L&L or V&V....I just feel that areas those two target are even more in need of some fresh air then the ward/warden relation (which does not mean that it couldn't be improved as well of course...). But maybe I just lack currently the vision what W&W would add - feel free to convince me however, as I have issues with the other options as well:

V&V: Sounds good on first glance, but only if my personal elephant in the room is recognized - what's the dread system worth for a heavy roleplaying (and not min-maxing) player like me, if it is a one-way street...why is e.g. my own character not affected by being intimated by the dread level of my liege? Change that and we might have a deal.

L&L: While the intimate personal relationships for sure both lack when arranging them as well when being into them, this will only work out if first the foundation is repaired (and if future content doesn't have the same issues). I'm not in the camp of those complaining over generally too much cheating etc., but I see a significant problem with problematic event code creating absolutely immersion killing situations (e.g. my wife calling my own children orphans at court). It does not only affect personal relationships, but IMHO the effect is worst here, as those are carried by immersion. Introducing dowry as feature would be BTW a good argument to vote for this pack...
 
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Looks like defensible bridges. Could be garrisons or just have an auto attack type feature for units labeled as "enemy". Could also have a taxable component for non- enemy units.

Travel in that time period required extensive planning and could be perilous. Lots of events could arise during travel too. As of now, when I send units somewhere I just make sure I have a vague idea of the cost and make sure I'm aware of the "you will lose x soldiers if you move here" messages. Seems like there is room to make travel a larger part of life, as it would have been.

Edit: After thinking about this comment, I tried a few things and found that slowing the game speed helped me tremendously in being able to focus on smaller gameplay details of map moving. I think it can be more immersive, but I may have overstated my previous point.
 
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I tend to prefer playing honorable and just characters so if that were rewarded in the villains and vagabonds pack then I'm all for it. Would be hilarious to try to navigate that through all the villainy and vagaries happening around me.
 
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I'm really hoping the centrepiece of the free patch that comes with the next expansion pack is some good mechanical stuff like that.

I'm pretty disappointed that we're getting another roleplay expansion pack, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the free patch will make up for it.

I agree with you but, to be fair, presuming you're referring to Dev Diary 109, they do mention that

the next Expansion isn’t devoid of systemic changes or mechanics just because it’s leaning heavily towards roleplaying. CK, like all GSGs, requires systemic content to remain true to what they are.

Which I absolutely agree with, because I've never believed that role-playing and strategy are mutually exclusive in Crusader Kings since we play as monarchs and in monarchies the personality and quirks of a ruling lord are inextricably tied to their politics, strategizing and decision making. Meaning if anything, its the opposite, roleplaying and strategy are inextricably linked with each other and each needs the other to truly be enjoyable in a game about the medieval era. Without strategy we will have unsatisfying roleplay, and without roleplay we will have unsatisfying strategy.

The best example illustrating this that comes to my mind immediately is King John of England - he wasn't necessarily incompetent but he was extremely unlikable and this personality flaw directly lost him the support of his Angevin allies and hence his Angevin lands. John was, to put it in CK3 terms, Greedy, Diligent, and Callous with a Stewardship lifestyle. It was this unique personality, ie roleplaying and lifestyle mix, which dictated his strategy, ie abuse of powers he had as king to extract money from his vassals when he needed to go to war for his Angevin lands, that led to the rebellion against him. In other words - "roleplaying" and strategy were inextricably linked even IRL.

CK3 definitely contains the ingredients of this particular story (traits, lifestyle perks, and vassal contracts) but because there is a lack of cohesion or meaningful interaction between these individual ingredients (excluding the stress system), and the almost complete absence of any medieval politicking/strategizing despite having a royal court in-game, CK3 is incapable of generating a coherent and satisfying story similar to King John's. Instead, most of the roleplay we do is largely incoherent and thus unsatisfying. I'm all for the devs leaning heavily towards roleplaying for whatever the next expansion is, but I do hope they stick to what they said in Dev Diary 109 and try and balance it out with some GSG-like "systemic content" so that we can actually have some meaningful and satisfying roleplaying.
 
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Which I absolutely agree with, because I've never believed that role-playing and strategy are mutually exclusive in Crusader Kings since we play as monarchs and in monarchies the personality and quirks of a ruling lord are inextricably tied to their politics, strategizing and decision making. Meaning if anything, its the opposite, roleplaying and strategy are inextricably linked with each other and each needs the other to truly be enjoyable in a game about the medieval era. Without strategy we will have unsatisfying roleplay, and without roleplay we will have unsatisfying strategy.

The best example illustrating this that comes to my mind immediately is King John of England - he wasn't necessarily incompetent but he was extremely unlikable and this personality flaw directly lost him the support of his Angevin allies and hence his Angevin lands. John was, to put it in CK3 terms, Greedy, Diligent, and Callous with a Stewardship lifestyle. It was this unique personality, ie roleplaying and lifestyle mix, which dictated his strategy, ie abuse of powers he had as king to extract money from his vassals when he needed to go to war for his Angevin lands, that led to the rebellion against him. In other words - "roleplaying" and strategy were inextricably linked even IRL.

CK3 definitely contains the ingredients of this particular story (traits, lifestyle perks, and vassal contracts) but because there is a lack of cohesion or meaningful interaction between these individual ingredients (excluding the stress system), and the almost complete absence of any medieval politicking/strategizing despite having a royal court in-game, CK3 is incapable of generating a coherent and satisfying story similar to King John's. Instead, most of the roleplay we do is largely incoherent and thus unsatisfying. I'm all for the devs leaning heavily towards roleplaying for whatever the next expansion is, but I do hope they stick to what they said in Dev Diary 109 and try and balance it out with some GSG-like "systemic content" so that we can actually have some meaningful and satisfying roleplaying.

Agree with all of this. I'm certainly not saying that roleplay isn't central to CK - that character-focus and storytelling is literally CK's USP.

I just want it to be systemic and offer up some friction to the gameplay. That why I thought Royal Court was only "okay" - because engaging with it was mostly flavour, rather than systems that gave you new things to do, new problems to overcome or new tools to achieve those.
 
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