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Dev Diary #130 – Wards and Wardens - The Vision

Hello all!

It's been a few weeks since we spoke but it feels like longer, what with all of you having been busy traveling, touring, tournamenting and the rest! It is time for us, nonetheless, to leave behind that world for now and take a look ahead at what we have coming up next.


Vision

Our first Event Pack, Friends & Foes, gave us something of a chance to experiment. Since then, we’ve had the chance to take a look at exactly what direction we want to start moving in with these packs, and build on what worked.

One area that we hit upon was diversity of content and how the player experienced the game. Events are the ink that we daub on to the fabric of the narrative, but it’s how, what and why these events happen that govern their efficacy. Introducing new avenues for that content to reach the player is a great thing, provided it’s done in an unobtrusive way.

With that in mind, we’re going to outline a few of the new features that you’ll find in Wards & Wardens (the event-pack that you voted for last January) and its accompanying patch - both available on August 22nd. Some of them we’ll talk about more in the future, so don’t expect anything too exhaustive here, but let’s start off with…


Captivating features

Hostages aren’t quite what you’d think of when you hear the term. Rather than forced holding of a person to ransom, hostageship in the Middle Ages was a political and legal status that was absolutely widespread.

Put simply, hostages were generally given, not taken. They were, essentially, transactional guarantees. In this case, we’ve zeroed in on the most common reason for hostages to be exchanged: as a means to guarantee a peace treaty.

In Wards & Wardens, hostages are a new type of relation somewhere between a prisoner and a foreign court guest. They reside at your court as a guest would, but cannot leave of their own accord, nor can they become knights. They are generally - though not always - children, and have found themselves in such a predicament due to their liege exchanging them away as a guarantee of non-hostility following a war, or exchanged via interaction during peacetime. Such an arrangement not only eases the mediation process, but also gives both sides some peace of mind.

hostage_window.png


Hostages are essentially living non-aggression pacts. Harming a hostage is a significant diplomatic incident, but it’s also a way to deter your former enemies from getting any more bright ideas about exactly to whom that border county belongs. Any ruler that you have a hostage from will suffer significant debuffs and penalties should they try and attack you - and any wardens attacking home courts also suffer similar debuffs - so hostages present one of the strongest forms of deterrent possible.

The hostages themselves are kept in line via something else new and shiny:


In Perpetuity

We have two types of Hook extant in the game already: Strong and Weak. The latter are the type of hooks you’d get if you were to, for example, manipulate a person in some way. They are single-use, and can be refused at cost. Strong hooks, on the other hand, can be used multiple times and in a range of scenarios, but are also much rarer.

Perpetual Hooks are a new sort of hook, which wardens can get on hostages who they treat well, and represent something of a middle ground. They are refuseable like Weak hooks, but also permanent like a Strong hook. At the moment hostages (and those that have previously been hostages) are the only characters you’d expect to see with a Perpetual hook, but just as Memories were built with expansion in mind for Friends & Foes, so too should you not be surprised if in the future you find more and wider examples of Perpetual hook usage.


What An Odd Fellow!

One of the spots that we’ve been somewhat hamstrung by in CKIII is in mediating the existence of characters that don’t quite… fit the mould, as it were.

eccentric_trait.png


In CKII, you’d have insane and possessed characters who did all kinds of wacky things - immortal horse chancellors and such; you know how it goes. CKIII’s takes a more grounded approach to how traits are represented: Lunatic, for example, was used increasingly loosely in CKII, ending up as an umbrella for anything ranging from slightly kooky to genuine mental illness, but CKIII sticks much more rigidly to the latter.

This is where the Eccentric trait comes in, as a trait dedicated to the slightly odd. This allows us to group some of the more unusual situations you’d find under this new personality trait, giving them both more reason to happen for a certain character but, critically, also barring those characters who wouldn’t engage in such strange distractions from doing so. We’ll talk about this more in the coming weeks!


A Midwife Crisis

As you might expect given how hostageship skews very much towards the young, a fair percentage of what we’ve been working on has been filling out the experience of non-adult existence in Crusader Kings III. We’ve come some way in this regard since release, with Friends & Foes adding a swathe of new events and a revamp of childhood personality traits, as well as of course the Regency mechanic giving a whole new layer of intrigue to a child navigating the dangerous Medieval world.

In Wards & Wardens, we’ve added to this with another fresh layer of childhood content - in no small part focused on hostages and their experiences - but also the addition of a Wet Nurse court position. Wet nurses held an interesting status amongst the medieval court, and adding this court position adds another layer of intricacy to the trials and tribulations of raising a child.

wet_nurse.png



Mature Students

We have been delighted to read just how much you all have been enjoying all the new - and the old! - activities in CKIII since the release of Tours & Tournaments. With this in mind, we’ve attempted to utilize it to approach something that’s previously been static in Crusader Kings: education as an adult.

university_visit.png


Previously, once you had come of age, an education type and rank was assigned to you and that was that. You, aged 16, were as educated as you’d ever become! Now, whilst properly reflecting the rate at which humans grow as people as they age is something of an impossible task for a game, the current system felt a little too rigid for our liking. As such, the Adult Education activity now gives players a chance to tickle their brains at a center of learning, in hope that they can actually upgrade their education trait to a higher level!

But what of those of us who enter adulthood with the finest education life has to offer? What steps can those people take to better themselves in adulthood?

Worry not. We have a plan for that, too, but it will have to wait!


Goodbye For Now

Thankfully, however, you won’t have to wait all too long. Whilst we’re saying bye for now, next week @Areysak will be taking us through the Adult Education Activity in CKIII from top to bottom. Hope to see you all then!
 
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Excellent additions. :)

I wonder how hostage-trading will work out in practice... How likely will the AI be to accept hostage-trades, and under what circumstances? Will it be possible to take hostages from defeated enemies or rebellious vassals without having to give a hostage in return?

The eccentric trait looks like a very interesting addition, particularly when it comes to event-writing. I am curious how this will play out in practice.

University visits could also change the game for the better, because getting a bad education trait will maybe no longer feel as punishing as it does currently.
 
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I am hoping that this DLC recalibrates Universities so that they become something more widely used in CK3 - unlike their current status where it costs thousands of gold for a minor one-off interaction to buff your educational trait.

Key question:

If you have a University within you holding or inside a realm you rule, do you get a discount when interacting with it? (Similar to buildings that give discounts to Grand Tournament events)

And if so, does that apply to anyone subordinate to you, rather than only your direct nuclear family?

Other key question:

What percentage of the characters in the game should be getting a University education? Will lowborn Bishops and Monks also have access?
 
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I still think there should be a Traditionalist trait, to represent somebody who is orthodox / unchanging, basically the cultural version of Zelous, with an in-group bias and resistant to change, and to counter it should be a Tolerant / Lenient / Reformer trait, giving the opposite effects.
 
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Good eye! I believe it should be all platforms and at very least all events for this Event Pack. It's one of the things we noticed people had said a lot in F&F, that they couldn't tell which events were DLC and which weren't. Hopefully this goes some way to addressing that!
Will this feature work for mods too? To display which mod an event is from?
 
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I've wanted more use for piety/ devotion points for some time. Could you consider creating events where for example making a child adopt a virtuous trait would be easier with high level of devotion for the guardian?
I really like this—have you made a suggestion in the Suggestions Subforum? (Linking to it in this thread would be helpful!)
If we have hostages, wouldn't it be nice if we have feuds and vendettas? For example you killed the son of a noble and his family becomes your feud. Over decades you have certain events and wars to get rid of them or asume peace.
Maybe with villians and vagabonds...
Are you aware of Friends and Foes? Available at that link. :)
Will this feature work for mods too? To display which mod an event is from?
The events I get from RICE and VIET show their origin, iirc, so presumably it’s possible already?

Edit: Wayofwisdom’s post above reminds me; will adult hostages get increased chances to carry out hostile schemes in our courts if they feel misused/dislike us?
 
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Now that I look at the Eccentric trait, it doesn't feel "mild" in terms of mechanics. +50% Stress Gain is twice as much as Ambitious, a trait with much "harsher" feel. +20% Monthly Lifestyle Gain is the same as the difference between a middling clerk and a genius scholar. Perhaps it's mechanical impact should be halved? After all, many players would consider playing a character with "Eccentric" trait to be a reward in-of-itself. ;)

Diplomacy -2
Learning +2
Stress Gain +25%
Stress Loss +25%
+10% Monthly Lifestyle XPs
 
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Now that I look at the Eccentric trait, it doesn't feel "mild" in terms of mechanics. +50% Stress Gain is twice as much as Ambitious, a trait with much "harsher" feel. +20% Monthly Lifestyle Gain is the same as the difference between a middling clerk and a genius scholar. Perhaps it's mechanical impact should be halved? After all, many players would consider playing a character with "Eccentric" trait to be a reward in-of-itself. ;)

Diplomacy -2
Learning +2
Stress Gain +25%
Stress Loss +25%
+10% Monthly Lifestyle XPs

My personal opinion: I would really like it if personality traits were more relevant in general, so I disagree with the notion that the numbers need to be reduced.
 
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Thanks for the DD! I've got a question: are you going (not in this DLC but in general) to make personality traits more dynamic in the future? So that they're not set in stone, and characters could go through personal evoultion or degradation (or just change of character), and it wouldn't be that most characters spend their entire lives with the same three traits which they got in their childhood
 
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Thanks for the DD! I've got a question: are you going (not in this DLC but in general) to make personality traits more dynamic in the future? So that they're not set in stone, and characters could go through personal evoultion or degradation (or just change of character), and it wouldn't be that most characters spend their entire lives with the same three traits which they got in their childhood
It already is possible for personality traits to change (though very rare), for example you may get the chance to replace sinful traits with virtuous ones on a pilgrimage, but it's intentionally rare and the traits relatively fixed, as opposed to the very rapidly changing personality traits of CK2 where the starting traits of a ruler didn't matter much, as you could completely rewrite their personality over time.
 
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Will there be new loading screen art? :D
The art in this game is so amazing and the new loading screens are always a neat little highlight whenever a new dlc is released.
I was a tiny bit disappointed when Friends & Foes didn't get one.
A scene with a tutor, some children and a midwife or some university scene in the amazing CK3 artstyle would be so nice!
 
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It already is possible for personality traits to change (though very rare), for example you may get the chance to replace sinful traits with virtuous ones on a pilgrimage, but it's intentionally rare and the traits relatively fixed, as opposed to the very rapidly changing personality traits of CK2 where the starting traits of a ruler didn't matter much, as you could completely rewrite their personality over time.
I think they could and should find a happy medium between the locked-in CK3 traits and the completely malleable CK2 traits. Some personal evolution would be welcome and sensible, but it should take some truly shattering events or some long-term incremental effort.
 
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Thanks for the DD! I've got a question: are you going (not in this DLC but in general) to make personality traits more dynamic in the future? So that they're not set in stone, and characters could go through personal evoultion or degradation (or just change of character), and it wouldn't be that most characters spend their entire lives with the same three traits which they got in their childhood
I think the devs talked about it in one of the replies to a T&T Diary. Essentially they like the traits being the way they are right now, but could consider adding rare events that would change your personality traits in the future. I think it would be cool if they utilized the new foreboding events for that, like a trusting character changing to paranoid after surviving a pot being thrown on his head?
 
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This seems really cool, but the deterrent part seems kind of pointless when the AI will never attack you because you're a player. It might stop the player from invading, but that's about it.
In which context the AI does not attack you as a player because you are one? Especially since 1.9 I get attacked more than ever before...
 
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Defensive packs are a really big deal for game balance. Does that mean that hostages will be a base game feature? If so, I imagine all the cool events to be in the DLC, which I am fine with. But what about perpetual hooks?

Midwifes and the University activity I'd imagine are fully DLC-locked.
 
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Will there be new loading screen art? :D
The art in this game is so amazing and the new loading screens are always a neat little highlight whenever a new dlc is released.
I was a tiny bit disappointed when Friends & Foes didn't get one.
A scene with a tutor, some children and a midwife or some university scene in the amazing CK3 artstyle would be so nice!

AFAIK there wasn't for F&F
 
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Good knowledge! I'll let later DDs cover it in detail, but if I remember correctly we do have a few bits of content surrounding that particular aspect.
I'm sure you'll cite future DDs, but as a result, will this touch on kinship?
It might be hard to implement well, given that kinship affects who you can marry, and who you can ally, I think it would be so useful.
At least according to this paper, all of the major kinship groups (bar Dravidian) should be present in the game-map.
It could just be a cultural pillar, but would make the game far more interesting.
 
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