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Dev Diary #130 – Wards and Wardens - The Vision

Hello all!

It's been a few weeks since we spoke but it feels like longer, what with all of you having been busy traveling, touring, tournamenting and the rest! It is time for us, nonetheless, to leave behind that world for now and take a look ahead at what we have coming up next.


Vision

Our first Event Pack, Friends & Foes, gave us something of a chance to experiment. Since then, we’ve had the chance to take a look at exactly what direction we want to start moving in with these packs, and build on what worked.

One area that we hit upon was diversity of content and how the player experienced the game. Events are the ink that we daub on to the fabric of the narrative, but it’s how, what and why these events happen that govern their efficacy. Introducing new avenues for that content to reach the player is a great thing, provided it’s done in an unobtrusive way.

With that in mind, we’re going to outline a few of the new features that you’ll find in Wards & Wardens (the event-pack that you voted for last January) and its accompanying patch - both available on August 22nd. Some of them we’ll talk about more in the future, so don’t expect anything too exhaustive here, but let’s start off with…


Captivating features

Hostages aren’t quite what you’d think of when you hear the term. Rather than forced holding of a person to ransom, hostageship in the Middle Ages was a political and legal status that was absolutely widespread.

Put simply, hostages were generally given, not taken. They were, essentially, transactional guarantees. In this case, we’ve zeroed in on the most common reason for hostages to be exchanged: as a means to guarantee a peace treaty.

In Wards & Wardens, hostages are a new type of relation somewhere between a prisoner and a foreign court guest. They reside at your court as a guest would, but cannot leave of their own accord, nor can they become knights. They are generally - though not always - children, and have found themselves in such a predicament due to their liege exchanging them away as a guarantee of non-hostility following a war, or exchanged via interaction during peacetime. Such an arrangement not only eases the mediation process, but also gives both sides some peace of mind.

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Hostages are essentially living non-aggression pacts. Harming a hostage is a significant diplomatic incident, but it’s also a way to deter your former enemies from getting any more bright ideas about exactly to whom that border county belongs. Any ruler that you have a hostage from will suffer significant debuffs and penalties should they try and attack you - and any wardens attacking home courts also suffer similar debuffs - so hostages present one of the strongest forms of deterrent possible.

The hostages themselves are kept in line via something else new and shiny:


In Perpetuity

We have two types of Hook extant in the game already: Strong and Weak. The latter are the type of hooks you’d get if you were to, for example, manipulate a person in some way. They are single-use, and can be refused at cost. Strong hooks, on the other hand, can be used multiple times and in a range of scenarios, but are also much rarer.

Perpetual Hooks are a new sort of hook, which wardens can get on hostages who they treat well, and represent something of a middle ground. They are refuseable like Weak hooks, but also permanent like a Strong hook. At the moment hostages (and those that have previously been hostages) are the only characters you’d expect to see with a Perpetual hook, but just as Memories were built with expansion in mind for Friends & Foes, so too should you not be surprised if in the future you find more and wider examples of Perpetual hook usage.


What An Odd Fellow!

One of the spots that we’ve been somewhat hamstrung by in CKIII is in mediating the existence of characters that don’t quite… fit the mould, as it were.

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In CKII, you’d have insane and possessed characters who did all kinds of wacky things - immortal horse chancellors and such; you know how it goes. CKIII’s takes a more grounded approach to how traits are represented: Lunatic, for example, was used increasingly loosely in CKII, ending up as an umbrella for anything ranging from slightly kooky to genuine mental illness, but CKIII sticks much more rigidly to the latter.

This is where the Eccentric trait comes in, as a trait dedicated to the slightly odd. This allows us to group some of the more unusual situations you’d find under this new personality trait, giving them both more reason to happen for a certain character but, critically, also barring those characters who wouldn’t engage in such strange distractions from doing so. We’ll talk about this more in the coming weeks!


A Midwife Crisis

As you might expect given how hostageship skews very much towards the young, a fair percentage of what we’ve been working on has been filling out the experience of non-adult existence in Crusader Kings III. We’ve come some way in this regard since release, with Friends & Foes adding a swathe of new events and a revamp of childhood personality traits, as well as of course the Regency mechanic giving a whole new layer of intrigue to a child navigating the dangerous Medieval world.

In Wards & Wardens, we’ve added to this with another fresh layer of childhood content - in no small part focused on hostages and their experiences - but also the addition of a Wet Nurse court position. Wet nurses held an interesting status amongst the medieval court, and adding this court position adds another layer of intricacy to the trials and tribulations of raising a child.

wet_nurse.png



Mature Students

We have been delighted to read just how much you all have been enjoying all the new - and the old! - activities in CKIII since the release of Tours & Tournaments. With this in mind, we’ve attempted to utilize it to approach something that’s previously been static in Crusader Kings: education as an adult.

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Previously, once you had come of age, an education type and rank was assigned to you and that was that. You, aged 16, were as educated as you’d ever become! Now, whilst properly reflecting the rate at which humans grow as people as they age is something of an impossible task for a game, the current system felt a little too rigid for our liking. As such, the Adult Education activity now gives players a chance to tickle their brains at a center of learning, in hope that they can actually upgrade their education trait to a higher level!

But what of those of us who enter adulthood with the finest education life has to offer? What steps can those people take to better themselves in adulthood?

Worry not. We have a plan for that, too, but it will have to wait!


Goodbye For Now

Thankfully, however, you won’t have to wait all too long. Whilst we’re saying bye for now, next week @Areysak will be taking us through the Adult Education Activity in CKIII from top to bottom. Hope to see you all then!
 
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Regarding the regency system - at the moment the lack of strength of the regent is very (which is slow in the case of a player too inconvenient mechanics if I want to play for an evil regent (besides, if I play for a good regent without self-interest, then the overlord does not reward in any way ), and in the hands of AI does not represent any manifestation)


In the event of a new dlc interaction between the regent and the disease, there will be a heavy loss, if I understand correctly.

In connection with this outcome, was the rebalancing of the regency system, so that this system played not only a decorative role, but also because of the rapid changes in situations, in some cases caused alarm?
 
Good to hear about improving the education traits.
 
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With that said though, how funny would a Boring trait be? I'd find it absolutely hilarious.
I guess the opposite of eccentric would be "norm-abiding". In german we call them Spießer, no clue if a good english word even exists.

Someone who goes out of his way to fit in and don't break any social rules, who strictly follows the script on how they think society expects them to live their life. (And usually puts the same expectation on others, making them bigoted as well). The kind of character you'd find in the garden cutting their grass to perfection with a nail clipper so the neighbours don't gossip about their messy frontyard, but also the person who is the first to gossip and judge when they find out someone is cheating on their spouse.

Such a trait would be just as hilarious as an eccentric character, I'd love to see what these kind of people were up to in the medieval age.
 
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It's partnered with Fickle, along with Stubborn. In the same way Callous/Sadistic are to Compassionate, Stubborn/Eccentric are to Fickle. We didn't want to chuck in another whole personality trait (especially given that Eccentric is more of an accompaniment personality trait rather than a foundational one) due to the size of this DLC. We preferred to get Eccentric right rather than half-ass two traits. :)

With that said though, how funny would a Boring trait be? I'd find it absolutely hilarious.
I'm curious and nitpicky this morning: why is it Stubborn/Eccentric<->Fickle and not Fickle/Eccentric<->Stubborn? Eccentric, especially with the description given in the diary, feels much more like an outgrowth of Fickle, in much the same way that Sadistic is an outgrowth of Callous.
 
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I'm curious and nitpicky this morning: why is it Stubborn/Eccentric<->Fickle and not Fickle/Eccentric<->Stubborn? Eccentric, especially with the description given in the diary, feels much more like an outgrowth of Fickle, in much the same way that Sadistic is an outgrowth of Callous.
Hmm I would think someone who is eccentric is stubborn about doing things their own way instead of letting others sway their lifestyle? Just a guess though.
 
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I guess the opposite of eccentric would be "norm-abiding". In german we call them Spießer, no clue if a good english word even exists.

Someone who goes out of his way to fit in and don't break any social rules, who strictly follows the script on how they think society expects them to live their life. (And usually puts the same expectation on others, making them bigoted as well). The kind of character you'd find in the garden cutting their grass to perfection with a nail clipper so the neighbours don't gossip about their messy frontyard, but also the person who is the first to gossip and judge when they find out someone is cheating on their spouse.

Such a trait would be just as hilarious as an eccentric character, I'd love to see what these kind of people were up to in the medieval age.
Honestly adding something like a "Judgemental" trait would probably be fun.
 
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Hmm I would think someone who is eccentric is stubborn about doing things their own way instead of letting others sway their lifestyle? Just a guess though.
I don't necessarily disagree, however going off the personality descriptions, Eccentric does seem closer to Fickle.
Fickle-
"This character changes their mind more often than not, making them hard to predict."
Stubborn-
"This character does not back down for anything."
Eccentric-
"This character's behavior is seen by others to be erratic and irrational, but there appears to be some method to the madness."
To frame it another way:
Fickle and Eccentric characters could both be described by others as erratic or irrational. However, while the Eccentric has a reason for doing what they do, the Fickle has no underlying logic and is genuinely irrational and erratic.
 
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Hey, PDX please listen - okay this game has already to many hooks we as players can carefully mitigate through them but it is very hard for AI, with T&T update it is kinda also hard for players, here is my suggestion to alter them- First have 50 pay upfront and shut up for T&T Favours And make such that Council appointment requires strong hook, Also if you are wiling for long term health and balance of game it would be good if mid-tier hook is introduced. Weak hooks just for gold, mid-tier for contract changes, Strong one for things that actually matter, balance could be debatable and I'm sure your staff alongside community discussion can reach out to a perfect ground.
 
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I severely hope this opens the door to converting neighbors peacefully. Raising a neighboring kid should have them adapt your culture and customs naturally and by extension mean spreading religion and culture more passively than kill and conquer
 
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In which context the AI does not attack you as a player because you are one? Especially since 1.9 I get attacked more than ever before...
It's coded to have the AI be way less willing to attack players. I haven't experienced more wars since 1.9 like you have though. What kind of situations are you in that you're getting attacked and is anyone else experiencing more defensive wars?
 
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It's coded to have the AI be way less willing to attack players. I haven't experienced more wars since 1.9 like you have though. What kind of situations are you in that you're getting attacked and is anyone else experiencing more defensive wars?
I'm not able to see a clear pattern what exactly cuases it or in which situations it happens, but I could imagine that a better logic for doing marriages and doing alliances is a factor. For Pious/Zealous catholic characters it is mentioned in the changelog that they might ask the pope for claims (though that might not necessary mean that they are as willing to fight them through vs. a human player)
 
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It's coded to have the AI be way less willing to attack players. I haven't experienced more wars since 1.9 like you have though. What kind of situations are you in that you're getting attacked and is anyone else experiencing more defensive wars?
Do you know where in the code the AI's mercy on the player is? (For wars, I mean.)

All I know is the player has special protection which stops the AI from having multiple murder plots against the player at any one time, and if the player is imprisoned the AI is less likely to revoke all their titles and cause a game over.

But I've never heard of them being less likely to declare a war against the player though.
 
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Do you know where in the code the AI's mercy on the player is? (For wars, I mean.)

All I know is the player has special protection which stops the AI from having multiple murder plots against the player at any one time, and if the player is imprisoned the AI is less likely to revoke all their titles and cause a game over.

But I've never heard of them being less likely to declare a war against the player though.
I've heard several people say on the forums that's it's hard coded into the game, so it doesn't show up in the modded files. Murder plot thing is in there and is easy enough to remove, which I've done. However, I've added extra aggression from the AI towards the player for wars through modding and it does nothing. In over 800 hours of playing I've had war declared on me like 5 times while everyone around me is constantly getting attacked.
 
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I love the entire thing.

Exchanging "hostages" in the Medieval era was widespread; even in literature like Game of Thrones, Ned Stark and Robert Baratheon were - essentially - hostages in the court of Jon Arryn. It just so happens that Ser Arryn was enough of a badass to defy the current king and go to war on behalf of his hostages: it shows that the relationships between hostage and warden can grow close.

Also, the ability to seek new learning opportunities as Universities were created is a great idea! There has always been scholars among us; or people who could use a brush-up in the art of diplomacy, or martial prowess (physical education).

Lastly: please don't take what the people on Steam forums are saying to heart. They're using this as yet another opportunity to whine -- it really has nothing to do with the DLC itself.
 
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I imagine the number of children birthed will be one. Generally, you can't produce milk unless you have had at least one child.
Age too maybe?
This makes me wonder if this means that lower-ranked members of your court will start producing children on their own and getting married without player interaction. In my experience, low-level court members don't usually do this on their own. Probably for character population control reasons but maybe that will change. Or there will be a 'Summon a wet-nurse,' decision. Or both.

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A Midwife is not a Wet Nurse and only helps with birthing children. Is this a hint that we will get a dedicated position aimed at reducing mother/child fatalities during birth or the pregnancy period? If this is true, then perhaps the devs are planning on drastically increasing the danger of childbirth in the same way that ToTo has increased danger in battle and traveling. Or maybe it was just a pun.

Otherwise, I am very excited for this DLC. I had originally voted for Villains and Vagabonds but after ToTo, I am now being forced to play as children far, far more frequently and will appreciate there being more content for this stage of a character's life.
 
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