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Dev Diary #130 – Wards and Wardens - The Vision

Hello all!

It's been a few weeks since we spoke but it feels like longer, what with all of you having been busy traveling, touring, tournamenting and the rest! It is time for us, nonetheless, to leave behind that world for now and take a look ahead at what we have coming up next.


Vision

Our first Event Pack, Friends & Foes, gave us something of a chance to experiment. Since then, we’ve had the chance to take a look at exactly what direction we want to start moving in with these packs, and build on what worked.

One area that we hit upon was diversity of content and how the player experienced the game. Events are the ink that we daub on to the fabric of the narrative, but it’s how, what and why these events happen that govern their efficacy. Introducing new avenues for that content to reach the player is a great thing, provided it’s done in an unobtrusive way.

With that in mind, we’re going to outline a few of the new features that you’ll find in Wards & Wardens (the event-pack that you voted for last January) and its accompanying patch - both available on August 22nd. Some of them we’ll talk about more in the future, so don’t expect anything too exhaustive here, but let’s start off with…


Captivating features

Hostages aren’t quite what you’d think of when you hear the term. Rather than forced holding of a person to ransom, hostageship in the Middle Ages was a political and legal status that was absolutely widespread.

Put simply, hostages were generally given, not taken. They were, essentially, transactional guarantees. In this case, we’ve zeroed in on the most common reason for hostages to be exchanged: as a means to guarantee a peace treaty.

In Wards & Wardens, hostages are a new type of relation somewhere between a prisoner and a foreign court guest. They reside at your court as a guest would, but cannot leave of their own accord, nor can they become knights. They are generally - though not always - children, and have found themselves in such a predicament due to their liege exchanging them away as a guarantee of non-hostility following a war, or exchanged via interaction during peacetime. Such an arrangement not only eases the mediation process, but also gives both sides some peace of mind.

hostage_window.png


Hostages are essentially living non-aggression pacts. Harming a hostage is a significant diplomatic incident, but it’s also a way to deter your former enemies from getting any more bright ideas about exactly to whom that border county belongs. Any ruler that you have a hostage from will suffer significant debuffs and penalties should they try and attack you - and any wardens attacking home courts also suffer similar debuffs - so hostages present one of the strongest forms of deterrent possible.

The hostages themselves are kept in line via something else new and shiny:


In Perpetuity

We have two types of Hook extant in the game already: Strong and Weak. The latter are the type of hooks you’d get if you were to, for example, manipulate a person in some way. They are single-use, and can be refused at cost. Strong hooks, on the other hand, can be used multiple times and in a range of scenarios, but are also much rarer.

Perpetual Hooks are a new sort of hook, which wardens can get on hostages who they treat well, and represent something of a middle ground. They are refuseable like Weak hooks, but also permanent like a Strong hook. At the moment hostages (and those that have previously been hostages) are the only characters you’d expect to see with a Perpetual hook, but just as Memories were built with expansion in mind for Friends & Foes, so too should you not be surprised if in the future you find more and wider examples of Perpetual hook usage.


What An Odd Fellow!

One of the spots that we’ve been somewhat hamstrung by in CKIII is in mediating the existence of characters that don’t quite… fit the mould, as it were.

eccentric_trait.png


In CKII, you’d have insane and possessed characters who did all kinds of wacky things - immortal horse chancellors and such; you know how it goes. CKIII’s takes a more grounded approach to how traits are represented: Lunatic, for example, was used increasingly loosely in CKII, ending up as an umbrella for anything ranging from slightly kooky to genuine mental illness, but CKIII sticks much more rigidly to the latter.

This is where the Eccentric trait comes in, as a trait dedicated to the slightly odd. This allows us to group some of the more unusual situations you’d find under this new personality trait, giving them both more reason to happen for a certain character but, critically, also barring those characters who wouldn’t engage in such strange distractions from doing so. We’ll talk about this more in the coming weeks!


A Midwife Crisis

As you might expect given how hostageship skews very much towards the young, a fair percentage of what we’ve been working on has been filling out the experience of non-adult existence in Crusader Kings III. We’ve come some way in this regard since release, with Friends & Foes adding a swathe of new events and a revamp of childhood personality traits, as well as of course the Regency mechanic giving a whole new layer of intrigue to a child navigating the dangerous Medieval world.

In Wards & Wardens, we’ve added to this with another fresh layer of childhood content - in no small part focused on hostages and their experiences - but also the addition of a Wet Nurse court position. Wet nurses held an interesting status amongst the medieval court, and adding this court position adds another layer of intricacy to the trials and tribulations of raising a child.

wet_nurse.png



Mature Students

We have been delighted to read just how much you all have been enjoying all the new - and the old! - activities in CKIII since the release of Tours & Tournaments. With this in mind, we’ve attempted to utilize it to approach something that’s previously been static in Crusader Kings: education as an adult.

university_visit.png


Previously, once you had come of age, an education type and rank was assigned to you and that was that. You, aged 16, were as educated as you’d ever become! Now, whilst properly reflecting the rate at which humans grow as people as they age is something of an impossible task for a game, the current system felt a little too rigid for our liking. As such, the Adult Education activity now gives players a chance to tickle their brains at a center of learning, in hope that they can actually upgrade their education trait to a higher level!

But what of those of us who enter adulthood with the finest education life has to offer? What steps can those people take to better themselves in adulthood?

Worry not. We have a plan for that, too, but it will have to wait!


Goodbye For Now

Thankfully, however, you won’t have to wait all too long. Whilst we’re saying bye for now, next week @Areysak will be taking us through the Adult Education Activity in CKIII from top to bottom. Hope to see you all then!
 
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This makes me wonder if this means that lower-ranked members of your court will start producing children on their own and getting married without player interaction. In my experience, low-level court members don't usually do this on their own. Probably for character population control reasons but maybe that will change. Or there will be a 'Summon a wet-nurse,' decision. Or both.

View attachment 996791

A Midwife is not a Wet Nurse and only helps with birthing children. Is this a hint that we will get a dedicated position aimed at reducing mother/child fatalities during birth or the pregnancy period? If this is true, then perhaps the devs are planning on drastically increasing the danger of childbirth in the same way that ToTo has increased danger in battle and traveling. Or maybe it was just a pun.

Otherwise, I am very excited for this DLC. I had originally voted for Villains and Vagabonds but after ToTo, I am now being forced to play as children far, far more frequently and will appreciate there being more content for this stage of a character's life.
I think they just wanted the pun about Midwife/Midlife.
 
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So a new game event pack. glad I haven't bothered starting a new game... I think I'm going to wait for CK3 to quit development before playing. Ever since Northern Lords, I haven't once reached 900 AD. Gets a bit irritating that I conquer the HRE, found my North Seas Empire, maybe do a few more things (but not much) then have the game update which makes all my mods useless until the mod authors update their mods. And honestly, the mods are what makes this game even remotely playable. Haven't changed my Steam review since I still think the base unmodded game sucks.
 
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So a new game event pack. glad I haven't bothered starting a new game... I think I'm going to wait for CK3 to quit development before playing. Ever since Northern Lords, I haven't once reached 900 AD. Gets a bit irritating that I conquer the HRE, found my North Seas Empire, maybe do a few more things (but not much) then have the game update which makes all my mods useless until the mod authors update their mods. And honestly, the mods are what makes this game even remotely playable. Haven't changed my Steam review since I still think the base unmodded game sucks.
I never understand these statements. You have full control to pick your version or stop auto update.
 
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OMG! So glad on W&W, what a natural area to expand on.

I love the activities expansion, I am once again asking for your support on bringing more love to baronies, fighting rebel vagabonds, and building up your demesne in a Buildings and Bounties pack.
 
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I never understand these statements. You have full control to pick your version or stop auto update.
If someone says they think the game is unplayable without mods, the statement becomes perfectly comprehensible.
 
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So a new game event pack. glad I haven't bothered starting a new game... I think I'm going to wait for CK3 to quit development before playing. Ever since Northern Lords, I haven't once reached 900 AD. Gets a bit irritating that I conquer the HRE, found my North Seas Empire, maybe do a few more things (but not much) then have the game update which makes all my mods useless until the mod authors update their mods. And honestly, the mods are what makes this game even remotely playable. Haven't changed my Steam review since I still think the base unmodded game sucks.
Lock your game version, play in a different area, play with whatever mods you want.

Try desperately to complete your game by *the 22nd of August*, more than two months away if you don't lock your game version.

If your mods aren't updating in a reasonable time frame, perhaps try playing without them for a bit, or switching to alternatives that do update.
 
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These all sound pretty good. However, my personal wish list for this DLC includes the following:
  • Baptism Activity/Decision
  • Introduce Heir to the Realm Activity/Decision
  • The ability to switch character to one of your children, in a similar way one can during the crusades. Obviously this could be abused a bit, so certain requirements may be in place for example: only if it is one of your children. Only if they are landed. Only if your current ruler is above a certain age, for example 50. Maybe linked to a trait or perk. I rarely get to play as a child ruler and experience that content.
  • More diplomatic interaction options between wards and their wardens, children and their parents, siblings, etc.
  • Specific interactions towards bastards.
That's all I can think of right now that would fit the theme of this DLC.
 
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Mature Students:
I suppose for university visits you should need a university, shouldn't you?
For the timespan of the game and in most regions, universities were not very accessible. Instead of going to university, it was more common to study alongside famous mystics, gurus, swordsmen, learned priests, renown hunters, etc. It was also quite common to send persons approaching/reaching adulthood on "study trips" if they did not have to sit on a throne at the moment.
Perhaps a more general "study time" interaction could also be introduced, during which those who wish to learn could visit people with outstanding abilities. The master (if not a courtier) could teach for money, favors, or under certain conditions or after the would-be stundent having withstood a trial. In addition to the skills and traits of the master and the student, the learning efficiency could be determined by the age of the student (it is easier to learn something at a younger age).
 
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I've heard several people say on the forums that's it's hard coded into the game, so it doesn't show up in the modded files. Murder plot thing is in there and is easy enough to remove, which I've done. However, I've added extra aggression from the AI towards the player for wars through modding and it does nothing. In over 800 hours of playing I've had war declared on me like 5 times while everyone around me is constantly getting attacked.
If you've only been attacked five times, I think you're too good at the game and the AI finds your realm too intimidating to attack. If you get a bad succession the AI will happily dogpile you while you're weak, especially if you have other problems going on. I think the worst I've seen is four countries separately declaring war on a ruler that was knocked down to a single county after a split succession in a roleplay game.

It's kind of like the murder experience. The AI can and will try to murder the player. Yes, they're limited on how many plots can attempt it, but there are often plots in progress, and the danger level is dramatically different with a friendly 30+ intrigue spymaster than it is with one that only has average stats. Since players naturally get better at managing vassals and accumulating stat bonuses for their domain, they often graduate out of the challenge and forget it exists, while it continues to consistently threaten newer players.
 
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If you've only been attacked five times, I think you're too good at the game and the AI finds your realm too intimidating to attack. If you get a bad succession the AI will happily dogpile you while you're weak, especially if you have other problems going on. I think the worst I've seen is four countries separately declaring war on a ruler that was knocked down to a single county after a split succession in a roleplay game.

It's kind of like the murder experience. The AI can and will try to murder the player. Yes, they're limited on how many plots can attempt it, but there are often plots in progress, and the danger level is dramatically different with a friendly 30+ intrigue spymaster than it is with one that only has average stats. Since players naturally get better at managing vassals and accumulating stat bonuses for their domain, they often graduate out of the challenge and forget it exists, while it continues to consistently threaten newer players.
Also I think the devs did bump AI aggression a bit in the last few updates because a lot of people said it was too low and made the game too easy after a while.
 
It's coded to have the AI be way less willing to attack players. I haven't experienced more wars since 1.9 like you have though. What kind of situations are you in that you're getting attacked and is anyone else experiencing more defensive wars?
For real? Imo with how easy it is to make alliances that would be a terrible idea. It should be at least be optional if such a code really exists. Factions are fairly predictable and not that hard to manage, so foreign wars are basically the only thing that can hold back my plans, especially in conquest campaigns which are really boring if you do all the conquering while no one attacks you in return.
 
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Maybe an idea for education traits is to have them increase or decrease with age? It makes sense, for instance, that people would gradually increase their Learning with age, for instance, while their Martial and Prowess would decrease after some point, first slowly, then more drastically in old age. This could simulate the transition from a martial lifestyle to a more contemplative one.

Maybe this should even provoke a shift in education focus with age, to reflect a change in lifestyle, mental and physical ability, and interests. Perhaps an option to take invested points away from one lifestyle tree and invest them in another over time?
 
Hello all!

It's been a few weeks since we spoke but it feels like longer, what with all of you having been busy traveling, touring, tournamenting and the rest! It is time for us, nonetheless, to leave behind that world for now and take a look ahead at what we have coming up next.


Vision

Our first Event Pack, Friends & Foes, gave us something of a chance to experiment. Since then, we’ve had the chance to take a look at exactly what direction we want to start moving in with these packs, and build on what worked.

One area that we hit upon was diversity of content and how the player experienced the game. Events are the ink that we daub on to the fabric of the narrative, but it’s how, what and why these events happen that govern their efficacy. Introducing new avenues for that content to reach the player is a great thing, provided it’s done in an unobtrusive way.

With that in mind, we’re going to outline a few of the new features that you’ll find in Wards & Wardens (the event-pack that you voted for last January) and its accompanying patch - both available on August 22nd. Some of them we’ll talk about more in the future, so don’t expect anything too exhaustive here, but let’s start off with…


Captivating features

Hostages aren’t quite what you’d think of when you hear the term. Rather than forced holding of a person to ransom, hostageship in the Middle Ages was a political and legal status that was absolutely widespread.

Put simply, hostages were generally given, not taken. They were, essentially, transactional guarantees. In this case, we’ve zeroed in on the most common reason for hostages to be exchanged: as a means to guarantee a peace treaty.

In Wards & Wardens, hostages are a new type of relation somewhere between a prisoner and a foreign court guest. They reside at your court as a guest would, but cannot leave of their own accord, nor can they become knights. They are generally - though not always - children, and have found themselves in such a predicament due to their liege exchanging them away as a guarantee of non-hostility following a war, or exchanged via interaction during peacetime. Such an arrangement not only eases the mediation process, but also gives both sides some peace of mind.

View attachment 996407

Hostages are essentially living non-aggression pacts. Harming a hostage is a significant diplomatic incident, but it’s also a way to deter your former enemies from getting any more bright ideas about exactly to whom that border county belongs. Any ruler that you have a hostage from will suffer significant debuffs and penalties should they try and attack you - and any wardens attacking home courts also suffer similar debuffs - so hostages present one of the strongest forms of deterrent possible.

The hostages themselves are kept in line via something else new and shiny:


In Perpetuity

We have two types of Hook extant in the game already: Strong and Weak. The latter are the type of hooks you’d get if you were to, for example, manipulate a person in some way. They are single-use, and can be refused at cost. Strong hooks, on the other hand, can be used multiple times and in a range of scenarios, but are also much rarer.

Perpetual Hooks are a new sort of hook, which wardens can get on hostages who they treat well, and represent something of a middle ground. They are refuseable like Weak hooks, but also permanent like a Strong hook. At the moment hostages (and those that have previously been hostages) are the only characters you’d expect to see with a Perpetual hook, but just as Memories were built with expansion in mind for Friends & Foes, so too should you not be surprised if in the future you find more and wider examples of Perpetual hook usage.


What An Odd Fellow!

One of the spots that we’ve been somewhat hamstrung by in CKIII is in mediating the existence of characters that don’t quite… fit the mould, as it were.

View attachment 996408

In CKII, you’d have insane and possessed characters who did all kinds of wacky things - immortal horse chancellors and such; you know how it goes. CKIII’s takes a more grounded approach to how traits are represented: Lunatic, for example, was used increasingly loosely in CKII, ending up as an umbrella for anything ranging from slightly kooky to genuine mental illness, but CKIII sticks much more rigidly to the latter.

This is where the Eccentric trait comes in, as a trait dedicated to the slightly odd. This allows us to group some of the more unusual situations you’d find under this new personality trait, giving them both more reason to happen for a certain character but, critically, also barring those characters who wouldn’t engage in such strange distractions from doing so. We’ll talk about this more in the coming weeks!


A Midwife Crisis

As you might expect given how hostageship skews very much towards the young, a fair percentage of what we’ve been working on has been filling out the experience of non-adult existence in Crusader Kings III. We’ve come some way in this regard since release, with Friends & Foes adding a swathe of new events and a revamp of childhood personality traits, as well as of course the Regency mechanic giving a whole new layer of intrigue to a child navigating the dangerous Medieval world.

In Wards & Wardens, we’ve added to this with another fresh layer of childhood content - in no small part focused on hostages and their experiences - but also the addition of a Wet Nurse court position. Wet nurses held an interesting status amongst the medieval court, and adding this court position adds another layer of intricacy to the trials and tribulations of raising a child.

View attachment 996406


Mature Students

We have been delighted to read just how much you all have been enjoying all the new - and the old! - activities in CKIII since the release of Tours & Tournaments. With this in mind, we’ve attempted to utilize it to approach something that’s previously been static in Crusader Kings: education as an adult.

View attachment 996409

Previously, once you had come of age, an education type and rank was assigned to you and that was that. You, aged 16, were as educated as you’d ever become! Now, whilst properly reflecting the rate at which humans grow as people as they age is something of an impossible task for a game, the current system felt a little too rigid for our liking. As such, the Adult Education activity now gives players a chance to tickle their brains at a center of learning, in hope that they can actually upgrade their education trait to a higher level!

But what of those of us who enter adulthood with the finest education life has to offer? What steps can those people take to better themselves in adulthood?

Worry not. We have a plan for that, too, but it will have to wait!


Goodbye For Now

Thankfully, however, you won’t have to wait all too long. Whilst we’re saying bye for now, next week @Areysak will be taking us through the Adult Education Activity in CKIII from top to bottom. Hope to see you all then!
I love that the far east is finally in the game. I don't if is only me but now half of the population with this update is naked and bold.
 
You mean China and Japan is going to be in the game? I already had a mod that did that, but it's great to see it made official. Are they integrating the mod, or doing all the work themselves?
 
You mean China and Japan is going to be in the game? I already had a mod that did that, but it's great to see it made official. Are they integrating the mod, or doing all the work themselves?
They haven’t committed to it. They say it something that they would like to do.
 
Love all of this so far. But one thing I was looking forward to hearing of that wasn’t mentioned was more expansive options of adoption outside of court events. Any plans to bring this in?
 
I have a suggestion for perpetual hooks right away: parenting hooks! It would prevent things like your two year old refusing to return to court after running off during your travels without having to spend a house head hook to do so.
 
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