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Dev Diary #132 – Eccentricity & Adoption

Eccentric​

Hello hello hello, welcome to another Wards and Wardens dev diary! Today I'm going to be talking you through two new features: adoption and the Eccentric trait! We'll start off with the simpler of the two features: Eccentricity.

Why add a new trait in Wards and Wardens?​

Friends and Foes added the Loyal and Disloyal traits, but unfortunately these came quite late in development and as a consequence they were quite under-utilized, so we decided to have the discussion around new traits quite early this time around and we went over a few different ideas including Superstitious, Silly vs Serious, but we kind of knew all along that what we really wanted was something analogous to the Wild Wasteland trait in Fallout or CK2 Lunatic.

For those unfamiliar, Lunacy in CK2 was usually where we made our more… out there content. There are still echoes of this here and there in CK3, but for the most part, Lunacy isn't really the same as it was.
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The decision was made quite early in CK3's development that the lunatic trait would be analogous to real-world mental illness so this kind of content was typically deemed inappropriate. As a result of that decision, we've not really had an easy way to gate the sillier side of things when it comes to the player character. This has been a bit of a divisive subject on the forums, so we felt we needed some way to gate the content without resorting to game rules.

What is Eccentric? Who is Eccentric?​

Eccentric is a personality trait meaning it is an essential part of a character's personality. Eccentrics are erratic and irrational, but there is a method to the madness so they may be able to see things that other characters don't.
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Numbers are subject to balancing

Wards and Wardens being all about children and childhood made it the perfect fit for a new Personality trait, and as with all other Personality traits in the game, Eccentric can be acquired during childhood.
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People have been known to lose their marbles later in life, so a particularly stressed character may have a mental break which causes them to start seeing things in a more Eccentric way.
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As you can see in the below screenshot, a non-Eccentric child would just guess at the options presented to them, but an eccentric may think of something a bit more creative.
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There has also been an audit of some existing content to add checks for the Eccentric trait where sensible. The now-infamous Cat-apult event, for example, has now been made into an Eccentric event.

Something I'd like to nip in the bud quite early is that the Eccentric trait is not intended to reflect any real-world disabilities, illnesses, or neurodivergence. I think it's wonderful if you are able to project some of your own experiences onto the trait, but making a direct and conscious effort to make the Lunatic trait analogous to real-world mental illnesses is the reason why we ended up making Eccentric to begin with and we'd rather not have to come up with another trait for our silly content.

Eccentric is a free feature and will be available to everyone, but some unique content related to the trait will be exclusive for DLC-owners.

Adoption​

Now onto the next feature of this diary and one that's quite exciting to me personally is the Adoption interaction! Now many many patches ago we introduced the Same-Sex marriage rule and ever since then it's just kind of been there and we've yet to introduce a way to actually make same-sex play… well, playable.

Who can adopt?​

Under the default game rules, Adoption is available to characters who are in a same-sex marriage, the childless and elderly/infertile, and Compassionate characters. Compassionate has long been a bit of a weak trait to have, so it's nice to give them a powerful way to secure succession and bring talented orphans into the family.
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Who can be adopted?​

Children can be adopted as long as: they're not a ruler, they're not in prison or otherwise unavailable, nobody in their family is a ruler, they're not already part of your house, and they're not in the realm of someone of their dynasty. This does mean you're technically allowed to adopt noble children, and children whose parents are still alive, but they are highly reluctant to accept adoption in those circumstances.

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Noble Adoption​

If you want to role-play a culture where adoption is commonplace (as it was in some off-map and out-of-period cultures), you can take up the Noble Adoption cultural tradition!

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Hold on a minute, isn't this anachronistic?​

Sort of! While adoption amongst nobility was exceptionally rare, it wasn't completely unheard of. As such, we've restricted access to adoption quite a lot as described and the AI is quite reluctant to do it.

Can the restrictions be loosened?​

Absolutely! Adoption comes with three new game rules that can forbid it or make it easier!
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Just like the Eccentric trait, Adoption is part of the free update releasing with Wards & Wardens on August 22nd. Next week we will talk about the new Court position and share more details on what to expect from this event pack. See you then!
 
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Meka66 said:
This is mostly as a safety net to prevent players from adopting in a way that disrupts the succession of other realms, basically we don't want any living rulers to be annoyed to find that suddenly their attractive genius grandchild is now part of some dynasty in another realm.
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But the beautiful herculean genius great-grandchild is fair game?
That was my main argument, actually :D
 
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Children can be adopted as long as: they're not a ruler, they're not in prison or otherwise unavailable, nobody in their family is a ruler, they're not already part of your house, and they're not in the realm of someone of their dynasty.
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Close family or extended family? Also, will they maintain any unpressed claims?
 
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lgonggr said:
I really fail to see the logic in avoiding including "any real-world disabilities, illnesses, or neurodivergence".
Depression is in the game, so is paranoia, people can get maimed or incapable, but these are different somehow ?
I think would be great to add more realism to the characters, like addiction, compulsive behaviour, phobias, traumas, and whatnot, the easily offended be damned.
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I read this too fast and thought you want "easily offended" as a trait.
 
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namewhichisnottakenyet said:
But the beautiful herculean genius great-grandchild is fair game?
That was my main argument, actually :D
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They must not be within the realm of someone of their dynasty. Technically it could be possible if they have a great grandchild who has ended up in some distant realm, but that is somewhat unlikely. I'll toss the concern over to QA.
 
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Are you open to adding adult adoption in a future update?
To prevent it from being OP, maybe restrict it to cultures that historically used it (Latin, Byzantine, some Indian cultures, etc.).
 
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Both of these sound like excellent additions. The eccentric trait will hopefully contribute to make the tone of the game more fitting for that particular character, and I have wanted a more solid system for adoption ever since the adoption events in royal court. :)

My questions:
-> Will relationships between adopted and non-adopted (biologically unrelated) children still come with the same chance for the inbred trait as if I was their actual biological parent?
-> Who pays the renown cost for adoption if it is done by someone who is not the dynasty head? I imagine it could be really frustrating if AI dynasty members spend the renown of the dynasty in order to adopt children.
 
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Limiting it to "not your house" and "no adults" feels really bad to me. Like, the way I'd want to use it is to adopt my niece or second cousin or whatever after they've turned 16 and I know what traits and stats they'll have, but that's explicitly forbidden as is. Adding in a "your house, not a descendent of a ruler, and under 25" clause for adopting within your family would make things a lot more useful, imo, and you'd still have a very hard time using it to screw with some other ruler's succession.
 
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BrotherJonathan said:
Are you open to adding adult adoption in a future update?
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Absolutely, it's something I personally would like to explore. It just wasn't what this particular adoption interaction was made for. It would likely be its own interaction with its own set of restrictions and AI considerations. As I've said in some prior comments, I'd really like to have some option to adopt my own non-dynastic children if my spouse dies. We currently have an event for it, but it literally only happens to Daurama Daura and I'd like more of a system for it.
fodazd said:
-> Will relationships between adopted and non-adopted (biologically unrelated) children still come with the same chance for the inbred trait as if I was their actual biological parent?
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Nope, the game does keep track of blood relation separately from effective relation, so no inbred babies.
fodazd said:
-> Who pays the renown cost for adoption if it is done by someone who is not the dynasty head? I imagine it could be really frustrating if AI dynasty members spend the renown of the dynasty in order to adopt children.
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The AI is deeply unlikely to adopt. Currently the renown cost is done regardless of if you're the dynastic head or not, but this is subject to balancing of course.
 
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Meka66 said:
They must not be within the realm of someone of their dynasty. Technically it could be possible if they have a great grandchild who has ended up in some distant realm, but that is somewhat unlikely. I'll toss the concern over to QA.
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Abducting or capturing in a siege and then recruiting is always an option. So is inviting their parents to your court.
Family members tend to go wandering off if you have a sufficiently large family from where you can invite the target character's parents and quietly start solving the "characters whose parents are still alive are highly reluctant to accept adoption" problem.
There are options!
 
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So basically, a Hohenzollern can't adopt a Salian child as long as the Salians rule as Holy Roman Emperors. However, you can do so if they lost the Holy Roman throne and a the same child is somehow lost and not within the court of Franconia.
 
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"but for the most part, Lunacy isn't really the same as it was." Lunacy these days truly isn't what it used to be in the good ol' days!

Seriously. Just the eccentric trait with plentyfull silly flavor for it would be more than enough for me to buy this DLC even if nothing else were to come with it.
(I have literally restricted myself from playing too much CK3 after T&T to not oversaturate myself before that.)
 
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Eccentric should definitely be a huge boost for capability as a Court Jester... And perhaps add in some extra-wacky shenanigans that only eccentric Court Jesters are capable of triggering?
 
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Meka66 said:
The AI is deeply unlikely to adopt. Currently the renown cost is done regardless of if you're the dynastic head or not, but this is subject to balancing of course.
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But, what happens, if an AI Ruler under Male only succession Law has only Daughters?

Will they then adopt a Child, so they can have at least 1 Heir or will they simply ignore it and let their Brothers or other Dynasty Members inherit or in the extreme case of having no Relatives, let their Dynasty die out.
 
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lgonggr said:
I really fail to see the logic in avoiding including "any real-world disabilities, illnesses, or neurodivergence".
Depression is in the game, so is paranoia, people can get maimed or incapable, but these are different somehow ?
I think would be great to add more realism to the characters, like addiction, compulsive behaviour, phobias, traumas, and whatnot, the easily offended be damned.
Click to expand...
This feels like a purposeful misreading of the DD. It is pretty obvious within the full quote that this is very specifically about in connection the Eccentric trait, no need to be so riled up about who is offended. Just need better reading comprehension.
namewhichisnottakenyet said:
I think that nearly everyone on the high functioning end of the autistic spectrum, and maybe some other mild conditions with few or no symptoms which are detrimental to one's overall health or intelligence (ADHD, Tourette) would rather be interpreted as eccentricity than lunacy/possession in the medieval era.
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Why did you interpret that this condition would only fit either in the Eccentric trait or Lunacy/Possession? Why can't there be another, more appropriate trait for such conditions that aren't an obvious vehicle for Glitterhoof content? I don't think that is too much to ask of Paradox.

Early DD posts feel very low quality sometimes. This was a fine DD, wasn't expecting any adoption content so this was a positive surprise. Feels like Noble Adoption might be worth adding to a lot of cultures depending on how sweet that "Guardians of this Culture are more effective." bonus is, as well on how well the AI takes advantage of it.
 
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