• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Dev Diary #14: Sieges

Greetings again future Conquerors! Welcome to another Development Journal! I’m Bas, who also wrote the Development Journal on Ancient Wonders. This time, we’re not looking at cracking open Ancient Wonders for treasure, but rather, we’ll be looking at cracking open Cities! I’ll be talking about the new Siege System in Age of Wonders 4!

DevJournalSiege1.PNG


Cities in Age of Wonders are the core of an empire’s economy, which in turn fuels their war machine. Having one of your cities taken is therefore a huge blow and in the case of someone’s capital, could even result in a player losing or winning the game.

In Age of Wonders 3 players had to make sure they always had armies close to vulnerable cities as they were not defended by default. In Planetfall, we had garrisons to make sure cities and sector bases were defended at all times. However, it added a lot of extra units to already huge fights with exactly the same layout, making players tired of fighting these kinds of battles and auto-resolving them. It also couldn’t stop a player from launching surprise attacks and overwhelming the garrison in a single turn.

Age of Wonders 4 offered us an opportunity to sit down to tackle and improve upon these points. Our aim was to give defenders time to respond, to add more variety to City battles, and to not use the Garrison system to cut down on the amount of units involved in battle.

In the end, we came up with the Siege system, where defending players can invest in structures that help to delay attackers and affect the battle map. Attackers in turn have to lay siege to the cities for multiple turns in the world map where they can invest in Siege Projects to bring siege engines to the battle, or otherwise counter some of the defenses the city has, before they can launch a final decisive battle!

DevJournalSiege2.PNG.jpg


Let’s go back to those defensive structures for a minute, we’ll get into the siege itself later:

Some of the coolest and most appreciated parts of Age of Wonders 3 and Planetfall’s City battles were that certain structures such as turrets would be represented in battle. In Age of Wonders 4, we tried to go a step further! We now have several categories of Defense Structures that will be represented in the Siege battle:

  • Wall Defense Structures will contribute the most to Fortification Health (more on that later), and at least one wall must be built in a city to add the requirement for attackers to siege it. Furthermore, they are represented as different obstacles in combat! Palisade walls are wooden obstacles with low health, but Stone walls are Fortified obstacles with a lot of health that are tricky to take down. The latter also will have less breaches at the start of combat. Making it easier to funnel the attacker down killzones!

StoneWalls.png


  • Tower Defense Structures are the turrets of Planetfall. They spawn units during combat alongside the walls with incredible range and will automatically fire upon attacking units. There are even some more special Towers that instead cast magical buffs or even heal nearby defending units.

NecroticSpires.png


  • Battlement Defense Structures create special obstacles on the positions just behind the wall that benefit the Defender in some way. They often buff Ranged attacks, and can specialize further in buffing Magical or Physical ranged attacks. Such as units gaining extra range, more accuracy, or straight up setting target locations on fire with their attacks!

ArcaneBattlements.png


  • Support Defense Structures add special modifiers to the combat, often in the form of Combat Enchantments! They can do things like spawn Caltrop obstacles in front of the walls. Forcing attackers to go through Slowing and Sharp terrain which inflicts bleeding on them as they try to pile through the breaches!

CatropStash.png


All defensive structures also add Fortification Health, which is displayed beneath city banners and determines the rough amount of time attackers will need to spend sieging the city before they can launch their attack.

This is visible to everyone as long as you’ve discovered the city, so it’s handy to scout out enemy cities before moving in to know what kind of time investment you’ll need to make! If you have a good eye, you can even spot the kind of walls they have by looking at the city model.

FortificationHealth.png


Alright, enough about the defender preparing. Let’s look at the attacking side!

You can start a siege simply by initiating an attack or move order on a hostile walled city! You must do this with at least one hero available in the army who will be leading the siege (Marauders are exempt from this rule, yep, that’s right, infestation stacks can and will siege you!).

A prompt will ask you if you wish to start a siege, and a time estimation in turns is given. Pressing Start will begin your siege!

SiegeIntro.jpg


In the first turn of sieging, you have a nice overview of the Fortification Health of the city and its defense structures. Every turn during a siege, the Fortification Health (wall icon) will be diminished by the amount of Fortification Damage (broken wall icon) you deal. Until Fortification Health reaches 0 at which point you can initiate an attack!

Fortification Damage per turn is determined by:
  • A base value of 10 damage per turn
  • Units with Siege Breaker in besieging armies, such as Giants and Iron Golems
  • Siege Projects active during the siege
Siege Projects are specific actions the attacker wants to undertake to take out certain defenses of the attacker, speed up the siege, construct siege engines or employ something else like stealing population from the besieged city, they often come at a cost and take up a Siege Project slots, which you can get more of through empire skills.

As the attacker you can select which Siege Projects you wish to undertake only in the first turn of the siege, at which point they will be locked as your armies are executing your plans. In the case of Siege Projects that speed up a siege, they will contribute extra Fortification Damage done per turn.

This was set up in a way to have siege projects be more effective when a city is heavily fortified, creating a different balance between cost and effect per siege.

Headlong Assault for example, which contributes +5 Fortification Damage on top of the base 10 Fortification Damage, will reduce siege time with a city of 30 Fortification Health by 1 turn. But in a city with 120 Fortification Health, it can reduce it by 4 turns!

All empires have access to a multitude of standard Siege Projects, but more can be obtained through tomes or even Ancient Wonders. Such as a displacing effect from the Tome of Mayhem’s Sow Confusion siege project, or the Soul Siphon siege project from Tome of the Reaper to gain extra souls upon completion of the siege and gain Zombie units in combat.

SiegeProjects.png


While a siege is progressing, if the attacker has brought multiple armies, they don’t have to simply wait around the walls for the timer to run out. Reserve armies can simply run around the domain, scouting for hidden relief forces on the way or pillaging province improvements, especially Special Province Improvements like Teleporters and Spell Jammers you may want to take out while besieging to make sure no nasty surprises will await you once in battle.

Be aware though that this leaves the defender with opportunities for counter attacks by catching you outside of reinforcement range! This lets sieges be more dynamic.

Pillaging.jpg


Let’s quickly go back to the Defender, while their city is under siege, it suffers a hefty -50% penalty on all resource incomes except Draft, and cannot produce any City Structures during a siege either! This incentivizes defenders to take action instead of just waiting for the very last moment. Luckily, there are ways for defenders to prepare while a siege is going on.

A defender can see what Siege Projects are being taken against the city and how long the siege lasts. They can still recruit units in the city, rallying a quick militia to hold out against defenders to discourage the attacker from splitting up or even counter attack.

While this is going on, Defenders can also rally defenders from other places, Rally of the Lieges and Empire Rites can often prove handy in these situations to raise a quick army. Defenders can still freely move defenders in and out of the city.

We’ve tried restricting movement for defenders in besieged cities but found it too restrictive for the defenders to raise a proper defense. This allows defenders to actually undertake successful relief efforts and keeps attackers more on their toes.

RallyLieges.jpg


Once the timer has run out, the Fortification Health depleted to 0, the attacker can initiate the battle! The battle map is a lot more grim and ridden with destruction than previous city battle maps. After all, a siege has now taken place and breaches have appeared in the walls! These breaches form perfect funnels for the defender to exploit. But the attacker can, if they brought the right units, spells or siege engines, create their own additional breaches by attacking the walls!

Next to that, City Defense Structures and Siege Projects can also affect the battle map as described! Siege battles can now really look different depending on what has been undertaken by both defender and attacker.

SiegeExample1.jpg


As for the battlemap. It’s always challenging to create a city map that is balanced yet not samey, look grimey yet not unreadable. What me and Sara have done primarily is realize a vision of a battered city wall, a last bastion of defense, by littering the battlefield with broken remnants of the city, with plenty of muddy puddles and the occasional corpse fallen from previous attempts at breaching.

Most of these are decorative to create enough space for the players’ massive armies. And we’ve created custom lighting to contrast the units and line of wall obstacles from the background decoration!

Speaking off, Wall obstacles count as cover, making targets count as Obscured when they shoot over them. However, if defending units stand on the intact battlement hexes, they get to ignore Obscured as they have the high ground!

SiegeExample2.png


Next to this, breaches will already appear at the start of battle, unlike in previous Age of Wonders games, as you’ve been besieging these cities for a while. These are generated in a controlled way to create killzones for defenders, but with the occasional unfortunate breach that allows fast units to break through quickly!

If you’ve brought siege engines or units with Demolisher, you can also easily create new breaches in the walls that are still intact, or destroy enemy towers or battlements if they have any.

SiegeExample3.jpg


So, there you have it! Sieges do away with the micro-intense cat and mouse movements of the old games. Instead creating more trust for players to venture out with their armies. Giving them enough time to come back to, or raise new armies in defense. While attackers can employ tools to counter defenses or instead aim for more economic damage than outright city conquest. I hope to see and hear of many epic siege battles deciding the fate of empires on the brink of destruction or victory. Don’t forget to lock your gates when you get to play Age of Wonders 4!


We are only two weeks from release! Stay updated on all the AOW content!
 

Attachments

  • 1681924475389.png
    1681924475389.png
    797,9 KB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475508.png
    1681924475508.png
    2,4 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475308.png
    1681924475308.png
    2,4 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475441.png
    1681924475441.png
    2,5 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475657.png
    1681924475657.png
    2,9 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475735.png
    1681924475735.png
    3,1 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475178.png
    1681924475178.png
    2,8 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924474890.png
    1681924474890.png
    2,4 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475097.png
    1681924475097.png
    2,6 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475256.png
    1681924475256.png
    2,9 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475592.png
    1681924475592.png
    3,1 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924474966.png
    1681924474966.png
    3 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475365.png
    1681924475365.png
    2,1 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475034.png
    1681924475034.png
    2,8 MB · Views: 0
  • SiegeIntro.jpg
    SiegeIntro.jpg
    593,8 KB · Views: 0
  • Pillaging.jpg
    Pillaging.jpg
    727,8 KB · Views: 0
  • RallyLieges.jpg
    RallyLieges.jpg
    802,9 KB · Views: 0
  • Pillaging.jpg
    Pillaging.jpg
    727,8 KB · Views: 0
  • DevJournalSiege1.PNG
    DevJournalSiege1.PNG
    5,8 MB · Views: 0
  • SiegeExample2.png
    SiegeExample2.png
    4,1 MB · Views: 0
  • CatropStash.png
    CatropStash.png
    5,8 MB · Views: 0
  • Pillaging.jpg
    Pillaging.jpg
    727,8 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:
  • 41Like
  • 27Love
  • 9
  • 1Haha
  • 1
Reactions:
Second, I'd hope for 0 base fortification score, it should all be the result of built defenses.
I'll let Bas answer most of these in the morning but this is still the case. If your city doesn't have walls, then it doesn't have fortification health and any unit will be able to occupy and take over the city.
 
  • 7
  • 5Like
  • 1Love
Reactions:
Why do you, dear devs, kill all possible dynamics in the game? 8 turns siege without projects??? -1 turn on city with 30 fortification - 2 turns siege minimum. 2 turns staying with your army leaded by a hero at one place. Do you know what will happen next? If attacker somehow captures the city on next turn he will be crushed. In previous games he could destroy the city and retreat. Hit-and-run tactics. Now devs wiped out it completely. The game becomes prolonged, slow, but favorable to low skilled players and dumb AI.
U mean unlike the skilled rogue players that run around the map with invisible shadow stalkers with frost aura?

Or the invisible assassins with lifesteal while being super tanky at same time?

Yes so very skilled to overwhelm 6 civic guards.

I believe that has been fixed for good in aow4. Cities no longer disappear to a sneeze. Barring am descent of a actual god then it is understand that a sneeze can end a city.
 
  • 11Like
  • 2
Reactions:
Do you (genuine question, not trying to needle) mind elaborating on why the attacker is so disadvantaged here? There isn't a garrison stack to reinforce against you, and you have the ability to concentrate force better than the defender can, not least because if they attack you elsewhere you can fall back and defend if needed, because of the time sieges buy you. It feels to me less like it will disadvantage the attacker and more like it will increase the prospects of 'all-in' battles between kingdoms where forces are concentrated (because it's not risking immediate destruction from another direction to do that), but I haven't played much of the previous games, so I don't know if there's something important I'm missing here.

Because time. Timing is very crucial. You slow, you lose.

I feel the people complaining that hit and run tactics are gone are just looking at it the wrong way. Hit and run tactics should never be enough to take out a city of 1000's of people. Hit and run tactics have always been about destroy the resources of the enemy, not their strongholds. In past game, the hit and run tactics worked on strongholds as well... That has now be corrected, in my opinion. If you want to hit and run, you need to focus on razing tile and province improvements. Depriving resources and gaining some your self. But once a city has a wall, you in for the long hall. That should not be a hit and run target. And now it isn't. Seems like the right move to me.

*sigh
This is a game. Not some real historish simulation about medieval kingdoms. Razing tiles is meh compared to razing a whole city.

U mean unlike the skilled rogue players that run around the map with invisible shadow stalkers with frost aura?

Or the invisible assassins with lifesteal while being super tanky at same time?

Yes so very skilled to overwhelm 6 civic guards.

I believe that has been fixed for good in aow4. Cities no longer disappear to a sneeze. Barring am descent of a actual god then it is understand that a sneeze can end a city.

Yeah, because now even slowpoke has a chance to react somehow. Most issues with invisible units comes when somebody mess up the recon.
 
  • 29
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
I feel the people complaining that hit and run tactics are gone are just looking at it the wrong way. Hit and run tactics should never be enough to take out a city of 1000's of people. Hit and run tactics have always been about destroy the resources of the enemy, not their strongholds. In past game, the hit and run tactics worked on strongholds as well... That has now be corrected, in my opinion. If you want to hit and run, you need to focus on razing tile and province improvements. Depriving resources and gaining some your self. But once a city has a wall, you in for the long hall. That should not be a hit and run target. And now it isn't. Seems like the right move to me.

It is not about hit and run, it is about tactical decisions. Where to attack, where to defend, is it worth risking to travel too far from own cities etc. Now it does not matter because defender always has time to gather their best army and defend. Thus you will always have "3 best armies vs 3 best armies" deciding war outcome and since AI is worse than human player at using high tier units, the game will be even easier than planetfall which is not that hard either.
Of course the system is better than in AoW3, but it is much worse than in planetfall.
 
  • 21
  • 2Like
Reactions:
I'll let Bas answer most of these in the morning but this is still the case. If your city doesn't have walls, then it doesn't have fortification health and any unit will be able to occupy and take over the city.
So huge cities with some walls are completely empty because enemy cannot capture them instantly anyway while all our defenders are in new cities to prevent their instant capture...
 
While I agree with you that hit and run tactics should be possible, I think they still are. Instead of capturing/razing cities however the intent would be to raze provinces (which as far as I can tell, have no innate defense and give resources when pillaged. In fact it might be more profitable to have stealthy scouts repeatedly pillage land each time the target recaptures it (if they do) than it would have been to raze the city. I wonder if camouflaged units remain stealthed while pillaging...

I was thinking as a standalone victory tactic, not just an economic boost. No (involuntary) loss of a city, no defeat. It greatly increases the value of positioning as a ratio set against army setup to be able to use these tactics.
 
There is no way anyone is defending the old system unironically, having the possibility to come in from fog and take and raze big cities instantly was such a bad idea.

Hit and run tactics only make sense on smaller cities on the empire borders which already is fit on the system, Small cities take maybe 1 or 2 turns to siege, besides razing is now in the game on a province level too, which is 100 times better than planetfall razing sectors, that you needed to beat a small inconsequential army and get nothing in return.
 
  • 8Like
  • 7
Reactions:
There is no way anyone is defending the old system unironically, having the possibility to come in from fog and take and raze big cities instantly was such a bad idea.

Hit and run tactics only make sense on smaller cities on the empire borders which already is fit on the system, Small cities take maybe 1 or 2 turns to siege, besides razing is now in the game on a province level too, which is 100 times better than planetfall razing sectors, that you needed to beat a small inconsequential army and get nothing in return.

I thought there was a 2 turn absolute minimum? If not, I don't mind this new system at all.

I think the main concern a lot of people have is how much carelessness is allowed to the defender.
 
So huge cities with some walls are completely empty because enemy cannot capture them instantly anyway while all our defenders are in new cities to prevent their instant capture...
In that situation, why don't the attackers just surround the empty city and then destroy the defenders' forces in the field who rush in in a hurry?

This does not take into account teleportation, but since teleportation has a cap on the number of troops that can move, I don't think it would be that much of a problem.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
I thought there was a 2 turn absolute minimum? If not, I don't mind this new system at all.

I think the main concern a lot of people have is how much carelessness is allowed to the defender.
The system work on a hp pool, small cities apparently can even have 0 hp, so you can assault without waiting a single turn, and the game provides a ton of things to interact with the hp and the tactical battle, who knows, maybe even a spell can exist that lower hp of cities too, so you can do the "hit and run" tactics people want, but actually saying old system is better, there is simple no way, old system was just a glorified battle which you always massively cheesy or got cheesy by AI and on Multi, that is so bad honestly, it was cool since there was no other alternative but comparing the 2, there is just no way.
 
  • 6Like
  • 1
Reactions:
In that situation, why don't the attackers just surround the empty city and in 8 turns destroy the defenders' forces in the field who rush in in a hurry?
FTFY
In planetfall I can capture 5 cities in those 8 turns. My point in the message you replied to was that it is wrong design when players protect their worst cities instead of the best ones.
 
  • 12
Reactions:
The system work on a hp pool, small cities apparently can even have 0 hp, so you can assault without waiting a single turn, and the game provides a ton of things to interact with the hp and the tactical battle, who knows, maybe even a spell can exist that lower hp of cities too, so you can do the "hit and run" tactics people want, but actually saying old system is better, there is simple no way, old system was just a glorified battle which you always massively cheesy or got cheesy by AI and on Multi, that is so bad honestly, it was cool since there was no other alternative but comparing the 2, there is just no way.
People are comparing to planetfall, not to aow3.
For the record we have thousands of hours in both aow3 and planetfall so we know what we are talking about.
 
  • 7
Reactions:
Sounds like a great mechanic. It's always been a problem to be able to conquer many cities in a few turns, now the whole thing finally becomes a bit more strategic again.
 
  • 13Like
Reactions:
I think making sieges take multiple turns makes sense now that we can do massive damage to that city by destroying it's sector structures and on top of halving the income of that city. Hit and run tactics can absolutely destroy the infrastructure of cities and force the enemy to spend turns and resources repairing them.

Attackers can also gain big bonuses when sieging too taking control of enemy units seems particularly powerful.
 
  • 4Like
  • 4
Reactions:
People are comparing to planetfall, not to aow3.
For the record we have thousands of hours in both aow3 and planetfall so we know what we are talking about.
I am too and i do too, and i think your point is not all about the gameplay but just because you want to keep playing the way you learn how to, to cheesy the same way you do and keep winning like this.
 
  • 12Like
Reactions:
This will actually make the game faster for some people. Now I don't have to spend 8 turns fortifying a city against units summoned one turn away from my cities. I can just build walls and move on.

I think this siege system is pretty cool. Especially since you only have to siege if there are walls. But I like siege battles, so maybe my opinion is uncommon.
 
  • 10Like
Reactions:
In planetfall I can capture 5 cities in those 8 turns. My point in the message you replied to was that it is wrong design when players protect their worst cities instead of the best ones.
Well, I think being able to capture 5 cities in 8 turns without splitting your stacks of armies up is a horribly bad idea. If you have enough armies to take those 5 cities, then you've probably won anyways so it doesn't really matter.

And if you weren't defending your best cities, they'd not even have walls. Besides, if you put someone's best cities to siege and start burning their providences, their income is going to tank. They'd come running quickly and you'd have achieved a small victory on the road to success. And possibly a large one if you used it as bait. It makes more sense if players are defending their boarders, and not their core cities because of cheese allowing you to easily sneak a small nothing army past the lines.

This sounds so much better than what came before in either AOW3 or planetfall to me.
 
  • 11Like
  • 8
Reactions:
I am too and i do too, and i think your point is not all about the gameplay but just because you want to keep playing the way you learn how to, to cheesy the same way you do and keep winning like this.
I complain because I have experience with the way AoW4 will play and I don't like that it is the only option. Previously in planetfall I had 3 options:
1) I could capture several cities during a few turns, then kill enemy leader and capture capital and now I have many cities absorbed instantly.
2) I could kill enemy leader and capital by surprise despite I was losing the whole game
3) I could capture a single city, defend it for 6+ turns while it is being absorbed and my defenders are moving to guard it, then my main army goes for next town.
AoW4 removes everything except last option, now you always go slow and steady.
 
  • 11
Reactions:
Well, I think being able to capture 5 cities in 8 turns without splitting your stacks of armies up is a horribly bad idea. If you have enough armies to take those 5 cities, then you've probably won anyways so it doesn't really matter.
Not really, I played with mod which made AI stronger so the whole map was covered in cities and AI had more cities than me. I was always last in research and army rankings and AI had armies like this
6877A3BF9E8A6D356F9E26C0825050ACBCA93BC2

I even intentionally avoided killing an AI too soon because it would make other AIs too powerful.
 
  • 7
Reactions:
I complain because I have experience with the way AoW4 will play and I don't like that it is the only option. Previously in planetfall I had 3 options:
1) I could capture several cities during a few turns, then kill enemy leader and capture capital and now I have many cities absorbed instantly.
2) I could kill enemy leader and capital by surprise despite I was losing the whole game
3) I could capture a single city, defend it for 6+ turns while it is being absorbed and my defenders are moving to guard it, then my main army goes for next town.
AoW4 removes everything except last option, now you always go slow and steady.
So i am right, it's about cheesy tactics in the end, so you want for the game to keep the possibility of you just winning by catching a dude slipping for a few turns?

And how you can possibly say you have experience with how aow4 will play, the game already turned on it's head way before siege implementation, they removed the battle healing together with the infinity winning with xp leader funneling, your cities are always building units now, there is no triangular moving or 4x3 advantage of the attacker, my dude, the game will play different with or without any fear of you thinking the siege will change the way AI plays, mostly things that made the MP into the MP we know are gone, you don't know, we don't know, what we do know is at best is what we see, and what we see is the mechanics aspect of the new siege, and that is so much better, is not even funny.
 
Last edited:
  • 19Like
  • 2
Reactions: