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Dev Diary #14: Sieges

Greetings again future Conquerors! Welcome to another Development Journal! I’m Bas, who also wrote the Development Journal on Ancient Wonders. This time, we’re not looking at cracking open Ancient Wonders for treasure, but rather, we’ll be looking at cracking open Cities! I’ll be talking about the new Siege System in Age of Wonders 4!

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Cities in Age of Wonders are the core of an empire’s economy, which in turn fuels their war machine. Having one of your cities taken is therefore a huge blow and in the case of someone’s capital, could even result in a player losing or winning the game.

In Age of Wonders 3 players had to make sure they always had armies close to vulnerable cities as they were not defended by default. In Planetfall, we had garrisons to make sure cities and sector bases were defended at all times. However, it added a lot of extra units to already huge fights with exactly the same layout, making players tired of fighting these kinds of battles and auto-resolving them. It also couldn’t stop a player from launching surprise attacks and overwhelming the garrison in a single turn.

Age of Wonders 4 offered us an opportunity to sit down to tackle and improve upon these points. Our aim was to give defenders time to respond, to add more variety to City battles, and to not use the Garrison system to cut down on the amount of units involved in battle.

In the end, we came up with the Siege system, where defending players can invest in structures that help to delay attackers and affect the battle map. Attackers in turn have to lay siege to the cities for multiple turns in the world map where they can invest in Siege Projects to bring siege engines to the battle, or otherwise counter some of the defenses the city has, before they can launch a final decisive battle!

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Let’s go back to those defensive structures for a minute, we’ll get into the siege itself later:

Some of the coolest and most appreciated parts of Age of Wonders 3 and Planetfall’s City battles were that certain structures such as turrets would be represented in battle. In Age of Wonders 4, we tried to go a step further! We now have several categories of Defense Structures that will be represented in the Siege battle:

  • Wall Defense Structures will contribute the most to Fortification Health (more on that later), and at least one wall must be built in a city to add the requirement for attackers to siege it. Furthermore, they are represented as different obstacles in combat! Palisade walls are wooden obstacles with low health, but Stone walls are Fortified obstacles with a lot of health that are tricky to take down. The latter also will have less breaches at the start of combat. Making it easier to funnel the attacker down killzones!

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  • Tower Defense Structures are the turrets of Planetfall. They spawn units during combat alongside the walls with incredible range and will automatically fire upon attacking units. There are even some more special Towers that instead cast magical buffs or even heal nearby defending units.

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  • Battlement Defense Structures create special obstacles on the positions just behind the wall that benefit the Defender in some way. They often buff Ranged attacks, and can specialize further in buffing Magical or Physical ranged attacks. Such as units gaining extra range, more accuracy, or straight up setting target locations on fire with their attacks!

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  • Support Defense Structures add special modifiers to the combat, often in the form of Combat Enchantments! They can do things like spawn Caltrop obstacles in front of the walls. Forcing attackers to go through Slowing and Sharp terrain which inflicts bleeding on them as they try to pile through the breaches!

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All defensive structures also add Fortification Health, which is displayed beneath city banners and determines the rough amount of time attackers will need to spend sieging the city before they can launch their attack.

This is visible to everyone as long as you’ve discovered the city, so it’s handy to scout out enemy cities before moving in to know what kind of time investment you’ll need to make! If you have a good eye, you can even spot the kind of walls they have by looking at the city model.

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Alright, enough about the defender preparing. Let’s look at the attacking side!

You can start a siege simply by initiating an attack or move order on a hostile walled city! You must do this with at least one hero available in the army who will be leading the siege (Marauders are exempt from this rule, yep, that’s right, infestation stacks can and will siege you!).

A prompt will ask you if you wish to start a siege, and a time estimation in turns is given. Pressing Start will begin your siege!

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In the first turn of sieging, you have a nice overview of the Fortification Health of the city and its defense structures. Every turn during a siege, the Fortification Health (wall icon) will be diminished by the amount of Fortification Damage (broken wall icon) you deal. Until Fortification Health reaches 0 at which point you can initiate an attack!

Fortification Damage per turn is determined by:
  • A base value of 10 damage per turn
  • Units with Siege Breaker in besieging armies, such as Giants and Iron Golems
  • Siege Projects active during the siege
Siege Projects are specific actions the attacker wants to undertake to take out certain defenses of the attacker, speed up the siege, construct siege engines or employ something else like stealing population from the besieged city, they often come at a cost and take up a Siege Project slots, which you can get more of through empire skills.

As the attacker you can select which Siege Projects you wish to undertake only in the first turn of the siege, at which point they will be locked as your armies are executing your plans. In the case of Siege Projects that speed up a siege, they will contribute extra Fortification Damage done per turn.

This was set up in a way to have siege projects be more effective when a city is heavily fortified, creating a different balance between cost and effect per siege.

Headlong Assault for example, which contributes +5 Fortification Damage on top of the base 10 Fortification Damage, will reduce siege time with a city of 30 Fortification Health by 1 turn. But in a city with 120 Fortification Health, it can reduce it by 4 turns!

All empires have access to a multitude of standard Siege Projects, but more can be obtained through tomes or even Ancient Wonders. Such as a displacing effect from the Tome of Mayhem’s Sow Confusion siege project, or the Soul Siphon siege project from Tome of the Reaper to gain extra souls upon completion of the siege and gain Zombie units in combat.

SiegeProjects.png


While a siege is progressing, if the attacker has brought multiple armies, they don’t have to simply wait around the walls for the timer to run out. Reserve armies can simply run around the domain, scouting for hidden relief forces on the way or pillaging province improvements, especially Special Province Improvements like Teleporters and Spell Jammers you may want to take out while besieging to make sure no nasty surprises will await you once in battle.

Be aware though that this leaves the defender with opportunities for counter attacks by catching you outside of reinforcement range! This lets sieges be more dynamic.

Pillaging.jpg


Let’s quickly go back to the Defender, while their city is under siege, it suffers a hefty -50% penalty on all resource incomes except Draft, and cannot produce any City Structures during a siege either! This incentivizes defenders to take action instead of just waiting for the very last moment. Luckily, there are ways for defenders to prepare while a siege is going on.

A defender can see what Siege Projects are being taken against the city and how long the siege lasts. They can still recruit units in the city, rallying a quick militia to hold out against defenders to discourage the attacker from splitting up or even counter attack.

While this is going on, Defenders can also rally defenders from other places, Rally of the Lieges and Empire Rites can often prove handy in these situations to raise a quick army. Defenders can still freely move defenders in and out of the city.

We’ve tried restricting movement for defenders in besieged cities but found it too restrictive for the defenders to raise a proper defense. This allows defenders to actually undertake successful relief efforts and keeps attackers more on their toes.

RallyLieges.jpg


Once the timer has run out, the Fortification Health depleted to 0, the attacker can initiate the battle! The battle map is a lot more grim and ridden with destruction than previous city battle maps. After all, a siege has now taken place and breaches have appeared in the walls! These breaches form perfect funnels for the defender to exploit. But the attacker can, if they brought the right units, spells or siege engines, create their own additional breaches by attacking the walls!

Next to that, City Defense Structures and Siege Projects can also affect the battle map as described! Siege battles can now really look different depending on what has been undertaken by both defender and attacker.

SiegeExample1.jpg


As for the battlemap. It’s always challenging to create a city map that is balanced yet not samey, look grimey yet not unreadable. What me and Sara have done primarily is realize a vision of a battered city wall, a last bastion of defense, by littering the battlefield with broken remnants of the city, with plenty of muddy puddles and the occasional corpse fallen from previous attempts at breaching.

Most of these are decorative to create enough space for the players’ massive armies. And we’ve created custom lighting to contrast the units and line of wall obstacles from the background decoration!

Speaking off, Wall obstacles count as cover, making targets count as Obscured when they shoot over them. However, if defending units stand on the intact battlement hexes, they get to ignore Obscured as they have the high ground!

SiegeExample2.png


Next to this, breaches will already appear at the start of battle, unlike in previous Age of Wonders games, as you’ve been besieging these cities for a while. These are generated in a controlled way to create killzones for defenders, but with the occasional unfortunate breach that allows fast units to break through quickly!

If you’ve brought siege engines or units with Demolisher, you can also easily create new breaches in the walls that are still intact, or destroy enemy towers or battlements if they have any.

SiegeExample3.jpg


So, there you have it! Sieges do away with the micro-intense cat and mouse movements of the old games. Instead creating more trust for players to venture out with their armies. Giving them enough time to come back to, or raise new armies in defense. While attackers can employ tools to counter defenses or instead aim for more economic damage than outright city conquest. I hope to see and hear of many epic siege battles deciding the fate of empires on the brink of destruction or victory. Don’t forget to lock your gates when you get to play Age of Wonders 4!


We are only two weeks from release! Stay updated on all the AOW content!
 

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Love the new system.

Quick question, which might alleviate some of the concerns folks have. As the attacker, do you absolutely need to wait until the siege fortification is broken to begin the battle? Or can you begin the battle early, but the defender will just have more of their defenses intact? Otherwise what's the point of the defensive structures, if they're typically all destroyed by the time the siege starts?

Also, can the defending player do anything to break the siege? If they bring their hero stack back home, can they attack the sieging player to try to end the siege, and would that battle play out on the walled city battle map or a standard battle map?
 
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So i am right, it's about cheesy tactics in the end, so you want for the game to keep the possibility of you just winning by catching a dude slipping for a few turns?
Sorry, you have no idea how I play. I am attacked on turn 6 in planetfall when I send my army too far from my capital. Now I can do whatever I want because who cares what AI does, I will always have time to return back to "defend" my city
And how you can possibly say you have experience with how aow4 will play
I have already described how AoW4 will play:
"I could capture a single city, defend it for 6+ turns while it is being absorbed and my defenders are moving to guard it, then my main army goes for next town."
Devs force it this way by requirement to have a hero leading siege, limiting number of heroes, limiting number of towns and now the siege mechanic.
It is closer to RPG than to strategy game now :(
 
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I'd like to give my thoughts as someone who has played AoW3 multiplayer and has a lot of single player experience with Planetfall.

I see people complaining about the siege mechanic taking the attacking player too many turns. Really, this is a complaint about game tempo. If the attacker is spending time sieging and not doing anything else, the defender is gaining tempo as a result of the attacker's (in)action. Since the attacking army is still able to move around and plunder provinces, it remains to be seen how much the attacker can still gain advantages using their sieging forces. Maybe the loss of tempo won't be as bad as some people are predicting.

Another tempo consideration that I haven't seen anyone bring up though is the cost of the walls themselves. I'll be honest, in AoW3 I would rarely build walls because walls are time, production, and money spent on something that is completely worthless unless you get attacked. This means that the defending player is suffering a tempo loss by the very act of building walls in the first place. If you are a greedily expanding player who is claiming as much territory as possible, building walls will slow you down. If both players are doing a greedy expand strategy but one is building walls and the other isn't, the player building the walls will be at a disadvantage.

According to the developer diary, walls must be built to force the attacker into a multi-turn siege. This means that the hit and run strategies that people are complaining about being removed haven't actually been removed. If a player has unwalled cities, you can still do your old strategies. If they invest in walls because you are harassing them with your armies, you have done damage to them by forcing them to build walls. If they build the walls when you aren't harassing them, then they are wasting resources. The exact dynamic will be different, but I feel like there's still some push and pull between the players here. This seems like an interesting system, and I'm excited to see how it plays out.

As a final note, as someone who has played every Age of Wonders since the start of the franchise, one thing that I love about this franchise is just how different each game is. AoW4 will not be an upgraded AoW3. It will be its own experience. AoW3 still exists for people who want the old experience. I'm actually playing through the AoW2 Wizard's Throne campaign right now, and it's amazing how different AoW2 is from everything else. AoW3 didn't replace AoW2 (although I guess Shadow Magic kind of did, but I consider SM to be more of an expansion than a new game.) I'm glad that the developers are trying some new things with AoW4 while taking from a lot of the lessons that they learned with AoW3 and Planetfall.
 
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I have experience with the way AoW4 will play
How? It’s not out yet. Are you one of the few streamers who had limited access to an earlier build of the game?

Unless the answer is yes, you don’t have experience with AOW4. I’m thinking English is not your native language, and you’re misunderstanding what that word means.
 
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How? It’s not out yet. Are you one of the few streamers who had limited access to an earlier build of the game?

Unless the answer is yes, you don’t have experience with AOW4. I’m thinking English is not your native language, and you’re misunderstanding what that word means.
You are right about English, yet I wrote exactly what I wanted - I experienced the play style. When devs describe all relevant mechanics and you have much experience with similar games, it is not too hard to see how it goes. Do you think they are lying and I will be able to own 30 cities by turn 50 and capture 3-4 cities per turn?
 
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I greatly prefer the new system.
Also, you will theoretically be able to add 2 (or more) siege projects on the first turn so the city is breached on the second, assuming it's not heavily fortified. Plus my impression from streams is that cities tend to be fewer and more valuable compared to AoW3, so the system makes sense.
 
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You are right about English, yet I wrote exactly what I wanted - I experienced the play style. When devs describe all relevant mechanics and you have much experience with similar games, it is not too hard to see how it goes. Do you think they are lying and I will be able to own 30 cities by turn 50 and capture 3-4 cities per turn?
I think you continue to misunderstand the word “experience.” :) You haven’t played AOW4, so you do not have any experience with AOW4, even though you do have experience with previous AOW games.

I understand you have played games similar to what you imagine AOW4 will be like, but until you actually have the game and have played it a considerable number of hours, you won’t have experience with AOW4. (Nor would anyone else.)

Edit: oh my, apologies for the repetition of that word! I’m going to reword a bit.
 
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I'd like to give my thoughts as someone who has played AoW3 multiplayer and has a lot of single player experience with Planetfall.

I see people complaining about the siege mechanic taking the attacking player too many turns. Really, this is a complaint about game tempo. If the attacker is spending time sieging and not doing anything else, the defender is gaining tempo as a result of the attacker's (in)action. Since the attacking army is still able to move around and plunder provinces, it remains to be seen how much the attacker can still gain advantages using their sieging forces. Maybe the loss of tempo won't be as bad as some people are predicting.

Another tempo consideration that I haven't seen anyone bring up though is the cost of the walls themselves. I'll be honest, in AoW3 I would rarely build walls because walls are time, production, and money spent on something that is completely worthless unless you get attacked. This means that the defending player is suffering a tempo loss by the very act of building walls in the first place. If you are a greedily expanding player who is claiming as much territory as possible, building walls will slow you down. If both players are doing a greedy expand strategy but one is building walls and the other isn't, the player building the walls will be at a disadvantage.

According to the developer diary, walls must be built to force the attacker into a multi-turn siege. This means that the hit and run strategies that people are complaining about being removed haven't actually been removed. If a player has unwalled cities, you can still do your old strategies. If they invest in walls because you are harassing them with your armies, you have done damage to them by forcing them to build walls. If they build the walls when you aren't harassing them, then they are wasting resources. The exact dynamic will be different, but I feel like there's still some push and pull between the players here. This seems like an interesting system, and I'm excited to see how it plays out.

As a final note, as someone who has played every Age of Wonders since the start of the franchise, one thing that I love about this franchise is just how different each game is. AoW4 will not be an upgraded AoW3. It will be its own experience. AoW3 still exists for people who want the old experience. I'm actually playing through the AoW2 Wizard's Throne campaign right now, and it's amazing how different AoW2 is from everything else. AoW3 didn't replace AoW2 (although I guess Shadow Magic kind of did, but I consider SM to be more of an expansion than a new game.) I'm glad that the developers are trying some new things with AoW4 while taking from a lot of the lessons that they learned with AoW3 and Planetfall.
Yep that's why i'm very dubious of the worth of people opinion on multiplayer asking about hit-and-run tactics, without the healing the leader snowball is much lower, and so is the tempo, if the siege is as destructive as it seems, the tempo is actually massively on the attacker side, since you are forced to lose turns walking back + the attacker destroy sectors and earn a ton of gold without wasting hp, if each sectors not only reward player money but make the other side lose money and lose turns rebuilding, it's similar to how rts plays, even if you can't take the city you just pulled ahead on the economy, and you are winning again, no need to alpha strike a leader and take random cities, you put an opponent on a tought position, and you win by simple being better.
 
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I think you continue to misunderstand the word “experience.” :) You haven’t played AOW4, so you do not have any experience with AOW4, though you had experience with previous AOW games.

You may have experienced games that play similarly to what you imagine AOW4 will be like, but until you actually have the game and have played it a considerable number of hours, you won’t have experience with AOW4. (Nor would anyone else.)
Ok, you are right. Let me rephrase it then. I know how it will play, devs diaries are great source of information.
 
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Yep that's why i'm very dubious of the worth of people opinion on multiplayer asking about hit-and-run tactics, without the healing the leader snowball is much lower, and so is the tempo, if the siege is as destructive as it seems, the tempo is actually massively on the attacker side, since you are forced to lose turns walking back + the attacker destroy sectors and earn a ton of gold without wasting hp, if each sectors not only reward player money but make the other side money and lose turns rebuilding, it's similar to how rts plays, even if you can't take the city you just pulled ahead on the economy, and you are winning again, no need to alpha strike a leader and take random cities, you put an opponent on a tought position, and you win by simple being better.
Are you still comparing it to previous games where attacker just instantly occupied the whole city with all its resources and strategic bonuses like Hearts or Doctrine landmarks???
The change favors defender heavily.
 
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I am too and i do too, and i think your point is not all about the gameplay but just because you want to keep playing the way you learn how to, to cheesy the same way you do and keep winning like this.

Do you really know what word 'cheesy' means in this case? You always will be 'cheesy' vs. AI just because you are smarter.

there is no triangular moving or 4x3 advantage of the attacker, my dude,

Haha, they also removed such thing like numeral advantage. It doesn't matter with how many armies you come, you always MUST play with an artificial rule 'only 3vs3 stacks battle'.

Another tempo consideration that I haven't seen anyone bring up though is the cost of the walls themselves. I'll be honest, in AoW3 I would rarely build walls because walls are time, production, and money spent on something that is completely worthless unless you get attacked. This means that the defending player is suffering a tempo loss by the very act of building walls in the first place. If you are a greedily expanding player who is claiming as much territory as possible, building walls will slow you down. If both players are doing a greedy expand strategy but one is building walls and the other isn't, the player building the walls will be at a disadvantage.

I think we'll have a situation when it will be good to build walls everywhere just like garrison structures in planetfall.
 
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Are you still comparing it to previous games where attacker just instantly occupied the whole city with all its resources and strategic bonuses like Hearts or Doctrine landmarks???
The change favors defender heavily.
If you're really that put off by sieges, wait to play until someone makes an anti-siege mod. Judging by some of the responses, it won't take long for one to be made.
 
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Haha, they also removed such thing like numeral advantage. It doesn't matter with how many armies you come, you always MUST play with an artificial rule 'only 3vs3 stacks battle'.
Oh, yes the incredible skillful gameplay of making 4 full stacks and eating 6+ stacks by pieces, that was surely numbers advantage and not cheesing players or AI at all using the healing per battle and triangle rule.
 
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If you're really that put off by sieges, wait to play until someone makes an anti-siege mod. Judging by some of the responses, it won't take long for one to be made.
Yes, thank you. I pre-purchased premium edition of Planetfall, but this game I have just in wishlist and I am waiting for release and mods/sales to decide. I asked on Steam forum if there are plans to create the mod several hours ago ;)
 
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Oh, yes the incredible skillful gameplay of making 4 full stacks and eating 6+ stacks by pieces, that was surely numbers advantage and not cheesing players or AI at all using the triangle rule.
Zaskow plays MP mostly as far as I know so your comment is a bit funny ;)
I appreciate how devs solved the issue of AI strategic movement by this change, but it was not too uncommon for me to be attacked by 4 AI stacks
 
Do you (genuine question, not trying to needle) mind elaborating on why the attacker is so disadvantaged here? [...] It feels to me less like it will disadvantage the attacker and more like it will increase the prospects of 'all-in' battles between kingdoms where forces are concentrated

One advantage the attacker gets that she didn't get in AoW3 is that now walls will already have multiple holes breached. In AoW3 it could sometimes take an attacker quite a while to get through a gate because the defender could stand 1 unit on the gate hex, which protected it from 100% of damage. When the defender died, the gates would close and be at full health. And then the defender could rinse/repeat with another unit. Essential gates with huge hit point sponges.

Flyers could cross walls, as well as wall climbers, but typically you did not want to split your army into those that cross the wall and those that don't, because the ones that cross will get chewed up if they are isolated.

You could bring rams and trebuchets, which could break down the stone walls, but building those are a replacement to units you would have built for the offensive otherwise. Some units and spells were good besiegers on their own, so late game sieges weren't as difficult.
 
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Oh, yes the incredible skillful gameplay of making 4 full stacks and eating 6+ stacks by pieces, that was surely numbers advantage and not cheesing players or AI at all using the healing per battle and triangle rule.

Not more skillful than making 3 elite stacks and eating any amount of enemy stacks just because your less developed opponent can't get to work his own numeral advantage. And yes, I'm very doubtful that devs completely removed abusable things like regeneration, regrowth or regen/resurrection after win in the combat.
 
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Zaskow plays MP mostly as far as I know so your comment is a bit funny ;)
I appreciate how devs solved the issue of AI strategic movement by this change, but it was not too uncommon for me to be attacked by 4 AI stacks
It does not matter if the guy is a pro player or whatever, i was playing tourneys at aoe3 and 2 and i had incredible shit takes at that time about the game and still know high ladder people that still play and still does, just because i grew accustomed to what made it's mp scene, sometimes a mechanic feels like a loss when it changes, but it ends much better.

The 4x3 stack never felt good regardless if made you feel good about "numbers advantage" or not, 4x games have always an "artificial rule" of how much stuff can fight at once so 3x3, 6x6 or whatever it can be all the same depending on how the game work, but just giving a straight massive advantage as having so many extra units is really crazy to see, even worse when it's hooked on a weird movement mechanic like that, def my least favorite thing about mp on these games, but whatever the topic is not about that so i don't know even why we're talking about it.
 
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FTFY
In planetfall I can capture 5 cities in those 8 turns. My point in the message you replied to was that it is wrong design when players protect their worst cities instead of the best ones.

when a player defends his worst cities instead of the best ones then its not bad game design but bad player.

if you station all your units in your smaller cities, meanwhile your capital is empty then i will conquer it.

8 turns in this fully upgraded city siege is the base number. if you add more siege units and siege actions then you will reduce this turn.

so you might have or realistically about 4 or 5 turns to react, which is too few turns if you are far away doing exploration or questing.

also you usually don't go questing and finish questing with full hp, so i don't see a problem here.

all it dies is give the defender a bit more time to react and reward the attacker for being well prepared.

now if we talk about bad game design then its the standard one like in Homm3 or previous 4x games which basically make the city either instantly the attackers city or only gives 2-3 militia units which will do jack in the actual battle.

sure you could say that just have a couple armies wandering around patroulling, but that would be unfun .. while realistic in medieval terms to having roaming militia which react of sightings of trouble, it is bad game design because its not fun and no 4x player ever uses his turn to move around a half a dozen patroul armies.

the current system shown here is in my opinion the best option. it gives you some time to react, which can be shortened if the attacker ist prepared. which also gives you fun defenses to build and also the attacker can use the time to build interesting attack options, enriching the experience.
 
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