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Dev Diary #14: Sieges

Greetings again future Conquerors! Welcome to another Development Journal! I’m Bas, who also wrote the Development Journal on Ancient Wonders. This time, we’re not looking at cracking open Ancient Wonders for treasure, but rather, we’ll be looking at cracking open Cities! I’ll be talking about the new Siege System in Age of Wonders 4!

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Cities in Age of Wonders are the core of an empire’s economy, which in turn fuels their war machine. Having one of your cities taken is therefore a huge blow and in the case of someone’s capital, could even result in a player losing or winning the game.

In Age of Wonders 3 players had to make sure they always had armies close to vulnerable cities as they were not defended by default. In Planetfall, we had garrisons to make sure cities and sector bases were defended at all times. However, it added a lot of extra units to already huge fights with exactly the same layout, making players tired of fighting these kinds of battles and auto-resolving them. It also couldn’t stop a player from launching surprise attacks and overwhelming the garrison in a single turn.

Age of Wonders 4 offered us an opportunity to sit down to tackle and improve upon these points. Our aim was to give defenders time to respond, to add more variety to City battles, and to not use the Garrison system to cut down on the amount of units involved in battle.

In the end, we came up with the Siege system, where defending players can invest in structures that help to delay attackers and affect the battle map. Attackers in turn have to lay siege to the cities for multiple turns in the world map where they can invest in Siege Projects to bring siege engines to the battle, or otherwise counter some of the defenses the city has, before they can launch a final decisive battle!

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Let’s go back to those defensive structures for a minute, we’ll get into the siege itself later:

Some of the coolest and most appreciated parts of Age of Wonders 3 and Planetfall’s City battles were that certain structures such as turrets would be represented in battle. In Age of Wonders 4, we tried to go a step further! We now have several categories of Defense Structures that will be represented in the Siege battle:

  • Wall Defense Structures will contribute the most to Fortification Health (more on that later), and at least one wall must be built in a city to add the requirement for attackers to siege it. Furthermore, they are represented as different obstacles in combat! Palisade walls are wooden obstacles with low health, but Stone walls are Fortified obstacles with a lot of health that are tricky to take down. The latter also will have less breaches at the start of combat. Making it easier to funnel the attacker down killzones!

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  • Tower Defense Structures are the turrets of Planetfall. They spawn units during combat alongside the walls with incredible range and will automatically fire upon attacking units. There are even some more special Towers that instead cast magical buffs or even heal nearby defending units.

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  • Battlement Defense Structures create special obstacles on the positions just behind the wall that benefit the Defender in some way. They often buff Ranged attacks, and can specialize further in buffing Magical or Physical ranged attacks. Such as units gaining extra range, more accuracy, or straight up setting target locations on fire with their attacks!

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  • Support Defense Structures add special modifiers to the combat, often in the form of Combat Enchantments! They can do things like spawn Caltrop obstacles in front of the walls. Forcing attackers to go through Slowing and Sharp terrain which inflicts bleeding on them as they try to pile through the breaches!

CatropStash.png


All defensive structures also add Fortification Health, which is displayed beneath city banners and determines the rough amount of time attackers will need to spend sieging the city before they can launch their attack.

This is visible to everyone as long as you’ve discovered the city, so it’s handy to scout out enemy cities before moving in to know what kind of time investment you’ll need to make! If you have a good eye, you can even spot the kind of walls they have by looking at the city model.

FortificationHealth.png


Alright, enough about the defender preparing. Let’s look at the attacking side!

You can start a siege simply by initiating an attack or move order on a hostile walled city! You must do this with at least one hero available in the army who will be leading the siege (Marauders are exempt from this rule, yep, that’s right, infestation stacks can and will siege you!).

A prompt will ask you if you wish to start a siege, and a time estimation in turns is given. Pressing Start will begin your siege!

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In the first turn of sieging, you have a nice overview of the Fortification Health of the city and its defense structures. Every turn during a siege, the Fortification Health (wall icon) will be diminished by the amount of Fortification Damage (broken wall icon) you deal. Until Fortification Health reaches 0 at which point you can initiate an attack!

Fortification Damage per turn is determined by:
  • A base value of 10 damage per turn
  • Units with Siege Breaker in besieging armies, such as Giants and Iron Golems
  • Siege Projects active during the siege
Siege Projects are specific actions the attacker wants to undertake to take out certain defenses of the attacker, speed up the siege, construct siege engines or employ something else like stealing population from the besieged city, they often come at a cost and take up a Siege Project slots, which you can get more of through empire skills.

As the attacker you can select which Siege Projects you wish to undertake only in the first turn of the siege, at which point they will be locked as your armies are executing your plans. In the case of Siege Projects that speed up a siege, they will contribute extra Fortification Damage done per turn.

This was set up in a way to have siege projects be more effective when a city is heavily fortified, creating a different balance between cost and effect per siege.

Headlong Assault for example, which contributes +5 Fortification Damage on top of the base 10 Fortification Damage, will reduce siege time with a city of 30 Fortification Health by 1 turn. But in a city with 120 Fortification Health, it can reduce it by 4 turns!

All empires have access to a multitude of standard Siege Projects, but more can be obtained through tomes or even Ancient Wonders. Such as a displacing effect from the Tome of Mayhem’s Sow Confusion siege project, or the Soul Siphon siege project from Tome of the Reaper to gain extra souls upon completion of the siege and gain Zombie units in combat.

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While a siege is progressing, if the attacker has brought multiple armies, they don’t have to simply wait around the walls for the timer to run out. Reserve armies can simply run around the domain, scouting for hidden relief forces on the way or pillaging province improvements, especially Special Province Improvements like Teleporters and Spell Jammers you may want to take out while besieging to make sure no nasty surprises will await you once in battle.

Be aware though that this leaves the defender with opportunities for counter attacks by catching you outside of reinforcement range! This lets sieges be more dynamic.

Pillaging.jpg


Let’s quickly go back to the Defender, while their city is under siege, it suffers a hefty -50% penalty on all resource incomes except Draft, and cannot produce any City Structures during a siege either! This incentivizes defenders to take action instead of just waiting for the very last moment. Luckily, there are ways for defenders to prepare while a siege is going on.

A defender can see what Siege Projects are being taken against the city and how long the siege lasts. They can still recruit units in the city, rallying a quick militia to hold out against defenders to discourage the attacker from splitting up or even counter attack.

While this is going on, Defenders can also rally defenders from other places, Rally of the Lieges and Empire Rites can often prove handy in these situations to raise a quick army. Defenders can still freely move defenders in and out of the city.

We’ve tried restricting movement for defenders in besieged cities but found it too restrictive for the defenders to raise a proper defense. This allows defenders to actually undertake successful relief efforts and keeps attackers more on their toes.

RallyLieges.jpg


Once the timer has run out, the Fortification Health depleted to 0, the attacker can initiate the battle! The battle map is a lot more grim and ridden with destruction than previous city battle maps. After all, a siege has now taken place and breaches have appeared in the walls! These breaches form perfect funnels for the defender to exploit. But the attacker can, if they brought the right units, spells or siege engines, create their own additional breaches by attacking the walls!

Next to that, City Defense Structures and Siege Projects can also affect the battle map as described! Siege battles can now really look different depending on what has been undertaken by both defender and attacker.

SiegeExample1.jpg


As for the battlemap. It’s always challenging to create a city map that is balanced yet not samey, look grimey yet not unreadable. What me and Sara have done primarily is realize a vision of a battered city wall, a last bastion of defense, by littering the battlefield with broken remnants of the city, with plenty of muddy puddles and the occasional corpse fallen from previous attempts at breaching.

Most of these are decorative to create enough space for the players’ massive armies. And we’ve created custom lighting to contrast the units and line of wall obstacles from the background decoration!

Speaking off, Wall obstacles count as cover, making targets count as Obscured when they shoot over them. However, if defending units stand on the intact battlement hexes, they get to ignore Obscured as they have the high ground!

SiegeExample2.png


Next to this, breaches will already appear at the start of battle, unlike in previous Age of Wonders games, as you’ve been besieging these cities for a while. These are generated in a controlled way to create killzones for defenders, but with the occasional unfortunate breach that allows fast units to break through quickly!

If you’ve brought siege engines or units with Demolisher, you can also easily create new breaches in the walls that are still intact, or destroy enemy towers or battlements if they have any.

SiegeExample3.jpg


So, there you have it! Sieges do away with the micro-intense cat and mouse movements of the old games. Instead creating more trust for players to venture out with their armies. Giving them enough time to come back to, or raise new armies in defense. While attackers can employ tools to counter defenses or instead aim for more economic damage than outright city conquest. I hope to see and hear of many epic siege battles deciding the fate of empires on the brink of destruction or victory. Don’t forget to lock your gates when you get to play Age of Wonders 4!


We are only two weeks from release! Stay updated on all the AOW content!
 

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Are there any ways to significantly decrease siege time? This seems like it gives a major buff to the defending side and not many major buffs to the attacking side. I think Planetfall was the better model as it prevented scout armies from taking undefended cities, but wasn't enough to defend against proper armies.

Is there a fundamental reason that you feel defenders needed such a massive buff over previous versions? I think already making it so that armies can have the same numbers on both sides would be enough.

Maybe this will feel better in practice, but just from reading I'm a bit apprehensive about the system favoring defense and slowing down the game.




In previous games, when the attacker attacked, the battle was immediate and the defender had what was in the city hex and hexes adjacent. In AoW3 and previous, this meant you had to leave units in your city to defend against enemy attacks. A common strategy was using fast scout units to harass enemy cities that were left undefended. You could also raze cities in 2? turns after taking the city. In planetfall,, you had garrisons that gave you units even if you had nothing stationed in the city itself and you would have them in addition to any units you had in the city.

Hit and run strategies are no longer viable when you have to sit for multiple turns before being able to attack an enemy city. Nor is it as easy to punish undefended cities.
A solution to this from history: make it possible for raiding to do enough persistent damage to improvements to force a defender with a strongly defended city to give battle to avoid, for instance, starving because all their farms have been burned.
 
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A solution to this from history: make it possible for raiding to do enough persistent damage to improvements to force a defender with a strongly defended city to give battle to avoid, for instance, starving because all their farms have been burned.
I think this could very well be the case, if not directly because of the economic damage of being under siege (-50% income plus not being able to build any structures) then because some of the offensive siege plans could be pretty devastating.

Incite Rebellion Mind controls 2 of the defenders... If it actually mind controls 2 of the defender's actual units at random (and doesn't simply generate 2 random T1-2 units of the defender's culture) I think I would typically prefer to attack into the besieging army than to roll the dice on fighting the same army while potentially losing 2 higher tier units that they simultaneously gain (and even if you won easily those units would presumably still be dead).

Arcane Maelstrom sounds like it will completely nullify some (or most?) of the defender's active city defenses while simultaneously dealing damage every turn in combat. This sounds like it could reverse the AoW3 dynamic (where the attacker is pressured into offense by continual chip damage from the city defense structure) -- now the defender must attack out into the army lest they continually take damage every turn.

On the other hand Subjugating raid doesn't look especially strong for taking the city, but I wonder if you have to win the follow-up battle to obtain the population from it. If not, then hypothetically you could initiate a siege on a low-fortification City, steal the pop, finish the siege, cancel the attack and initiate another siege until you've captured them all. It's a -lot- of investment for a hero to sit there doing that but there's something intriguing about playing a Slaver faction that keeps a few enemy cities alive and populating solely to harvest it from them.
 
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For those complaining about 8 turns...
  1. That example was without any support, just throwing your naked lord without any units dedicated to siege or siege project.
  2. You have a tome (Tome of Devastation) that probably speeds up the process by a lot since it's a tome dedicated to sieges.
I really like this change. If I heavily invest in building defenses, I shouldn't be punished by a sneaky attack or losing a single fight.

Now, it gives me that "LOTR" vibe, where Minas Tirith only had a garrison with a few troops and Mordor was breaking the defenses until the Rohirrim and Aragorn joined the battle. With the old system, it was like, "Hi, I'm Sauron. I'm taking Minas Tirith with Autoresolve because of my 'Hit-and-run tactics.' GG, Gondor."
 
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What if question:

If, for example, a wooden palisade wall is totally destroyed during a siege and the attacked successfully captures the city... does that city still have the palisade wall or does the new owner of the city need to build the wall again? Or the wall was only 'slightly damaged' and survived the siege and now appears as a fully operational defense?

^ that's a question that bugs me from time to time!

Now, for the second question, because I don't remember seeing this in the siege stream:

Will the walls have openable/closable doors for defenders alongside the walls? maybe a primary more reinforced door and 2 secondary side doors! Will see the video again and look for those doors, but I guess they're not there! If they were, onagers took them out. :-(

Anyway, the revamped siege system is exciting, to say the least!
 
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That's funny, so many players don't have experience with planetfall and praise improvements over aow3 which are obvious downgrades of mechanics from planetfall. Enjoy building dedicated units for sieges calling it "flexibility" and paying resources for activating siege projects which do nothing because defender attacks while siege is not over yet.
 
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With the way the felines’ tails were wagging during tactical combat in the dev stream, I’m not sure I will be able to play as any other form now, lol. Didn’t notice the rats’ tails in earlier streams for some reason. Will have to check again.
Point of note: Feline animals wag their tails for different reasons than canine animals. Very different set of moods. I don't know if rats move their tails to signal moods at all.

I would imagine the same rules should apply to anthropomorphic versions of the same animals.
 
I like this system.

I do have a question though: Some of these siege projects sound really strong, so can I as the defender just attack the besieging army to prevent them from becoming active? I assume sometime fighting on open terrain without the siege project effects would be better than fighting behind walls but with active siege projects for the attacker.
Correct! You can also preview the siege projects being undertaken while the siege is ongoing, so sometimes you may want to risk to counter attack before the breach is made, as that is the point that Siege Projects are completed and take effect.

counterattacking means you'll be fighting in nature/open terrain, so you also forgo some of your defensive benefits, as the combat map is loaded based on the tile the attacked army is standing on.
 
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It seems to be no more offensive city spells, they are now all siege projects. What about defensive city spells? Do defensive City spell exist or are they now just defensive structures that you have to build.
Defensive city spells exist, and you can also use offensive spells on target besieging armies as they are in your domain ;)
 
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Are there any ways to significantly decrease siege time? This seems like it gives a major buff to the defending side and not many major buffs to the attacking side. I think Planetfall was the better model as it prevented scout armies from taking undefended cities, but wasn't enough to defend against proper armies.

Is there a fundamental reason that you feel defenders needed such a massive buff over previous versions? I think already making it so that armies can have the same numbers on both sides would be enough.

Maybe this will feel better in practice, but just from reading I'm a bit apprehensive about the system favoring defense and slowing down the game.




In previous games, when the attacker attacked, the battle was immediate and the defender had what was in the city hex and hexes adjacent. In AoW3 and previous, this meant you had to leave units in your city to defend against enemy attacks. A common strategy was using fast scout units to harass enemy cities that were left undefended. You could also raze cities in 2? turns after taking the city. In planetfall,, you had garrisons that gave you units even if you had nothing stationed in the city itself and you would have them in addition to any units you had in the city.

Hit and run strategies are no longer viable when you have to sit for multiple turns before being able to attack an enemy city. Nor is it as easy to punish undefended cities.
Siege times can be decreased significantly with siege projects and by bringing units with siege breaker. more powerful siege projects, more siege project slots, and siege breaker units are widely more available in the late game. Making your ability to reduce siege timers a lot more capable. They do often come still at a price, but by that time you should have an economy up and running to handle it!

By default, you can already up your Fortification Damage by +8 at max without any upgrades. Meaning you almost double your siege output. But with a hefty 4 slots and more siege projects, you could potentially up it by +39. Meaning you could even reduce siege times against cities with 140 fortification health to 3 turns.
 
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The game becomes prolonged, slow, but favorable to low skilled players and dumb AI.


I think that might actually be the intent.

Remember, aim of the game is to be extremely accessible, extremely easy to learn.

Previous games had a learning curve that alienated alot of people (even though, for some people, the exploration of the intricacies was what made the gane the game) and the systems (although fun for some, like me with mods in PF) were sometimes.obscure and hard to understand.

For better or worse, AoW4 is much more streamlined (I can think of at least 2 mechanics that benefit from this approach, namely city management and hero generation) and more accessible, and indeed a part of that is about prolonging aspects and favouring new players, or "low skilled" as you call it.
 
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While I do like the idea of interacting siege projects vs fortification level, this particular approach seems stagnant. Hit and run tactics should be possible, just more challenging to pull off than in AoW3. A 2 turn minimum siege, if correct, destroys this outright.

First, I wish that if siege projects generate more fortification destruction on turn 1 than the defender has fortification score, the attack should be able to commence immediately.

Second, I'd hope for 0 base fortification score, it should all be the result of built defenses.

I like the idea of this system, but not at the cost of ruining any chance of hit and run tactics. Hit and run should be hard to pull off, much harder than AoW3, but not a 2 turn minimum, just have to come more prepared.
I completely understand, it was not always an easy change to make, as it definitely funneled conquest and warfare into this hard requirement and potentially multiple turns of standing around. The approach was to try and keep the dynamics by having armies still free to move around (Both for attacker and defender) as much as possible. Providing multiple scenarios during sieges were mobility and positioning are still important.

Newly found cities and some Free Cities start with 0 fortification health and no walls, meaning they can be taken the old fashioned but very fast way, immediate attacks! Capitols however do start out with some defenses already.

You can definitely reduce siege duration to a single turn, meaning you require one turn to initiate the siege, and can attack immediately the turn after. As for other ways to employ hit and run tactics. In house and external PvP testers are making good use of the pillaging system to raid enemy territory without sieging them. Making out with a bunch of gold and partially ruining the economy of another player.
 
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A couple of questions:
1) Do auxiliary armies with Siege Breaker units contribute to Fortification Damage or only units within the stack of the Hero who is conducting the siege?

2) Do units with Siege Breaker stack their Fortification damage bonus? ie. Can you hypothetically have a hero and 17 units with Siege Breaker conducting a siege and get absurdly high Fortification Damage values?

3) Is Fortification Damage updated dynamically? ie. If auxiliary armies leave to go explore/scout/etc. Or if the defender attacks the besieging stack and specifically targets/kills the units with Siege Breaker, does the Fortification Damage adjust based on those losses? (Or gains, if the stack returns).

3b) Can units be added/removed from the Hero's stack while the siege is ongoing? ie. Keep Siege Breaker units in the Hero Stack during the siege period, and then swap them out for combat-based units before the attack begins? Or have a Hero start the siege early while your Siege Breaker stacks are en route?



While I agree with you that hit and run tactics should be possible, I think they still are. Instead of capturing/razing cities however the intent would be to raze provinces (which as far as I can tell, have no innate defense and give resources when pillaged. In fact it might be more profitable to have stealthy scouts repeatedly pillage land each time the target recaptures it (if they do) than it would have been to raze the city. I wonder if camouflaged units remain stealthed while pillaging...
1) Yes! As long as they are adjacent to the besieged city.

2) Yes! This means you can create some truly capable siege armies. There are also enchantments and even a hero item that can grant entire armies Siege Breaker.

3) Yes! This is one of the only ways the siege timer can sometimes dynamically change during a siege.

3b) Another yes! Though I dont see scenarios happen often you'll want to swap siege breaker units with non-siege breaker units. They're not particularely only good at siege breaking, they often come with demolisher on their attacks as well and are quite strong, meaning they're pretty formidable in battle.


As for the hit and run tactics. During internal testing a famous tactic indeed was to harass enemy players by pillaging their province improvements.

Furhtermore, one of my favourite dynamics to come out of the siege system is having the besieging army move around the walls of the city, while other armies pillage nearby province improvements, staying within reinforcement range all the while.
 
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I completely understand, it was not always an easy change to make, as it definitely funneled conquest and warfare into this hard requirement and potentially multiple turns of standing around. The approach was to try and keep the dynamics by having armies still free to move around (Both for attacker and defender) as much as possible. Providing multiple scenarios during sieges were mobility and positioning are still important.

Newly found cities and some Free Cities start with 0 fortification health and no walls, meaning they can be taken the old fashioned but very fast way, immediate attacks! Capitols however do start out with some defenses already.

You can definitely reduce siege duration to a single turn, meaning you require one turn to initiate the siege, and can attack immediately the turn after. As for other ways to employ hit and run tactics. In house and external PvP testers are making good use of the pillaging system to raid enemy territory without sieging them. Making out with a bunch of gold and partially ruining the economy of another player.

i quite like the new mechanic. its a more in depth yet elegant system compared to the civ series. there you need several turns to whittle down the cities HP in order to take it. i don't like to be able to get a city within 1 turn. its unreasonable and lowers the perceived value or status of a city. with that i mean you build your city over many turns, invest heavily into it and if you leave it for 1 or 2 turns unoccupied a small piglet can pretty much capture it.

a fully developed city should need several units to breach its defenses or at least not be captured by a lone piglet.
 
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A few questions here:
1. What map will a battle be done on, a siege map or regular map, if a defender attacks the sieging army?
2. If it will be on a siege map, will there be some effects of the attacker projects?

P.S. When a defender has less projects than the attacker:
1. the map will be determined by the tile the attacked army was standing on, so most of these will be open nature battles.
2. The attackers siege projects will not be active until a breach is made! So these will not be active in a counter attack unless the fortification health was already reduced to 0.
 
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Why do you, dear devs, kill all possible dynamics in the game? 8 turns siege without projects??? -1 turn on city with 30 fortification - 2 turns siege minimum. 2 turns staying with your army leaded by a hero at one place. Do you know what will happen next? If attacker somehow captures the city on next turn he will be crushed. In previous games he could destroy the city and retreat. Hit-and-run tactics. Now devs wiped out it completely. The game becomes prolonged, slow, but favorable to low skilled players and dumb AI.

those "hit and run tactics" were absolutely stupid and annoying. why should a small army or even a single unit capture a big developed city in 1 turn then run away, was always bad game design in my opinion and an unfun mechanic.

i don't see how this more elaborate system would favor low skilled players, i would rather say it ups the skill ceiling before you need more planning, more preparation to do it quickly, rewarding smart players. the previous hit & run tactics would favor "dumb players" how you say it because no preparation or thoughtfulness needed.
 
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The only thing I find weird is that given it takes much longer to capture a city, I would expect that the post-capture options would be much faster. Absorb apparently takes 4 turns, migrate 3 turns and raze 4 turns (it works the same as AoW3's pillage, and take the same duration)…
Only Vassalize is much faster than it used to be, just 1 turn!
 
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New system does not mean good system, especially for some players. I disable diplomacy, disable victory conditions and my whole game is about capturing cities, devs ruined it in aow4. Doing nothing with heroes is not fun for most players I believe. Why didn't devs at least remove requirement to have a hero in siege???
The siege system removes all play styles except one (have 3 stacks as attacker together with a hero), especially with city cap and vassal token.

"I disable 90% of the features and play super specific games/playstyles. I also install several mods. AoW4 devs ruined the game for me11!11!1!"


Anyway @Japple is there any way for your comments to show up under "show dev responses"? I can see that you have tag, but for some reason, your posts don't show up, only @Triumph Jordi shows up.
 
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"I disable 90% of the features and play super specific games/playstyles. I also install several mods. AoW4 devs ruined the game for me11!11!1!"
LOL. I use a single mod to make AI stronger because devs didn't make it good enough.
I disable diplomacy because I am tired of winning without any battles because all 7 opponents are my allies and I can have hundreds of cosmite just from trading contacts alone.
I disable victory conditions because domination triggers too early and secret tech victory is too easy to achieve while NPC victory is almost impossible to achieve for AI.
I disable water because AI is quite bad at attacking over large areas of water.
Let me guess. You play just campaigns with autoresolve and spend most time on AI trading so you don't care about siege changes, right?
 
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On the other hand Subjugating raid doesn't look especially strong for taking the city, but I wonder if you have to win the follow-up battle to obtain the population from it.
It was answered in discord that you don't have to attack to receive population transfer. A wall breach is enough (fortification health <= 0).
1. the map will be determined by the tile the attacked army was standing on, so most of these will be open nature battles.
2. The attackers siege projects will not be active until a breach is made! So these will not be active in a counter attack unless the fortification health was already reduced to 0.
Thanks! I was going to ask about number of project slots, but I see you have already mentioned the possible 4 slots.
 
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