• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Dev Diary #21 - Custom Faiths and Pagan Reformation

Oh, hello there! Interested in becoming a heresiarch, are we? Or maybe you just want to organize your ancestor’s ancient spiritual traditions into a true reformed Faith, one that can stand up to the Crescent and Cross? Either way, you’ve come to the right place!

To start us off, I’m going to go into how the process of creating a new Faith or reforming a pagan one works. After that, there will be a teaser of some Tenets and Doctrines that you may be interested in picking for your newly-founded Faiths ;)

Faith Creation
Creating a new Faith is no easy task. Only the most pious rulers will be able to convince the clergy within their realm that they alone know the true will of the divine and, in doing so, take the first steps towards establishing a new Faith. However, with a little bit of devotion and a lot of time, you too will be able to reshape your Faith to suit your dynasty’s needs!

When looking at your own Faith’s tenets and doctrines, you will see a button at the bottom labeled ‘Create New Faith’. Clicking this button will open the Faith Creation window, which can be viewed at any time — even long before you have acquired the means to actually create a new Faith! This will allow you to play around with the different options and get a feel for what is possible, allowing you to set long-term goals for yourself.

DD_CreateAFaith_WM.png
[Screenshot of the Faith Creation window showing modified Tenets and Doctrines]

You can change every single Tenet and Doctrine of your hypothetical new Faith on this screen, though the list of what Tenets are available to pick varies from Religion to Religion. For example, Tenets based on the concept of Dharma are exclusive to Oriental Religions, whereas Monasticism was common practice and is thus available to everyone. This means when creating a new Faith, you must first ensure you are a member of the Religion that you want to base your new Faith off of.

Beyond simple availability, it is also easier for some Religions to accept certain Doctrines than others. For example, Islam is used to polyamory and will happily accept a new Faith espousing it. In contrast, a new Christian faith that claims God intended us to have multiple spouses will be met with a little more skepticism...

The way this plays out in CK3 is that each Tenet and Doctrine has a Piety cost associated with it. The further you deviate from your original Faith, the more Piety you will need in order to convince the priests that yes, you actually have had a vision from the divine and yes, you actually are enforcing their will and not just trying to make some weird personal sex cult.

DD_Cosanguinity_WM.png

[Screenshot of the scaling costs for the Cosanguinity Doctrine]

After you have made all the changes you want, you will be given the total amount of Piety your character needs in order to create their new Faith. This cost can get quite high, meaning that creating a new Faith or reforming a pagan one ends up being a life-long goal for most characters. It is highly recommended to attempt this with characters who have a Learning education and/or who have multiple Virtuous personality traits, and having the ability to go on frequent pilgrimages or donate gold & troops to holy causes helps too! Finally, timing your divine revelation to completely coincidentally occur when your Faith is suffering from low Fervor will make it much easier to get everyone to buy into your new canon (I will talk more about Fervor in our future Dev Diary on heresy outbreaks).

Once you are happy with your Tenets and Doctrines and have accumulated the necessary amount of Piety, you can officially convert to your new Faith. You and your capital county will adopt it immediately, but it won’t be easy for a ruler to convince their vassals and subjects to adopt this strange new Faith — they might be more inclined to stage an uprising and depose their mad king from the throne! After all, if you die before your new Faith gains a foothold in the world, there is a good chance your Faith will die with you…

Pagan Reformation
Pagan Faiths in Crusader Kings III start out with the special ‘Unreformed’ Doctrine.

This Doctrine grants notable bonuses to Tribal rulers early on, but it locks them into the Tribal government type and provides substantial Opinion penalties to any non-Tribal vassals they acquire. Since Tribal realms are notoriously unstable, successful chieftains will eventually want to look into either converting to a reformed religion so they can feudalize, or reforming their pagan religion into a true organized faith.

Like with Faith Creation, rulers must earn a substantial amount of Piety to organize their Faith’s disparate shamans into a coherent clergy. In addition, they must have at least 3 of their Faith’s holy sites located within their realm.

DD_VidilismHolySites_WM.png

[Screenshot showing 3 of the Vidilist Holy Sites]

Once you accomplish this, the process is quite similar to creating a new Faith of an existing reformed Religion. Your vassals may still be reluctant to convert to your newly reformed Faith, but because reformed Faiths gain a bonus to conversion against unreformed Faiths, you will have a much easier time convincing them to go along with your reformation than a heresiarch within in an existing Faith would have with making a new heresy.

DD_ReformationNew_WM.png

[Screenshot showing a Vidilist reformation event]

Tenet and Doctrine teaser

To finish this off, here are a few choice tenets and doctrines which you can pick when creating a new Faith in CK3. Many of these are also used by already existing Faiths, but some are only available to custom Faiths created by players. As you can see, there is a lot of variety in the kinds of custom Faiths you can create — ultimately every kind of playstyle should have some set of Tenets and Doctrines to support it!

DD_Tenet_Showcase_WM.png
[Screenshot of the Tenets Warmonger, Human Sacrifice, Ritual Cannibalism, Christian Syncretism, Dharmic Pacifism, Carnal Exaltation, Divine Marriage, Sacred Childbirth, and the Doctrines Pluralism and Fundamentalist]

That is all I have for you this week, but join us next time as my colleague @Heptopus talks about the diversity across the world in CK3 and the many different ways you can tailor the game experience to match your personal preferences!
 
  • 13Like
  • 4
  • 3
  • 1Love
Reactions:
That wasn't part of the point that was part of the joke.

But more seriously, when "Equality of gay people" is on the table, no matter how or when it got there, the fact that they're not equally able to marry each other is going to come up.
Tbh I don't need gay marriage in my playthroughs, but maybe the devs could make sure that the game mechanics are done in such a way that this could be modded?
 
Tbh I don't need gay marriage in my playthroughs, but maybe the devs could make sure that the game mechanics are done in such a way that this could be modded?
Good news for you.

Even if it's possible to allow through the religions mechanics, the AI *will only make historic faiths and heresies* - you won't see gay marriage unless a player starts it up *even assuming it can be done*.
 
Good news for you.

Even if it's possible to allow through the religions mechanics, the AI *will only make historic faiths and heresies* - you won't see gay marriage unless a player starts it up *even assuming it can be done*.

The devs don't plan to, for launch at least, but from what I can gather from hearing about CK3's increased focus on enabling mods, and from what I've done looking through the CK2 mod which enables gay marriage, it shouldn't be too hard.
 
Hey wait, I don't see anything in here about whether or not a religion is proselytising? There should be something that differentiates most branches of Christianity and Buddhism from the other religions in the game in the sense that they actively proselytize. Hopefully there'll be more stuff in general for if you want to spread your custom religions in general, especially beyond your boarders.

Possibly there should also be a branch of Hinduism that is proselytizing, as I recall it being mentioned that religion tended to switch between periods of proselytizing and not?
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Hey wait, I don't see anything in here about whether or not a religion is proselytising? There should be something that differentiates most branches of Christianity and Buddhism from the other religions in the game in the sense that they actively proselytize. Hopefully there'll be more stuff in general for if you want to spread your custom religions in general, especially beyond your boarders.

Possibly there should also be a branch of Hinduism that is proselytizing, as I recall it being mentioned that religion tended to switch between periods of proselytizing and not?
I guess that the "Religious Attitude" Doctrine will be the one that determine that aspect of each religion.
 
The devs don't plan to, for launch at least, but from what I can gather from hearing about CK3's increased focus on enabling mods, and from what I've done looking through the CK2 mod which enables gay marriage, it shouldn't be too hard.

So you don't use these mods if you don't want to.
 
So just wondering about my favorite obscure religion in Ck2, will Yazidism be considered its own religion outside of Islam in Ck3? It always seemed strange to me after doing some research on the religion with it being considered a Sunni heresy in Ck2.

Thanks for everything! Can't wait for more Crusades!
Agreed - it really has nothing to do with Islam.
 
Shame that such a fine system still has the Pagan Reformation require 3 Holy Sites and convert the whole faith in to the "Old and New" variants.

It could be argued that the Mari King Tšumbõlat(Chumbylat) managed just this kind of reformation or a branch of religious custom in the 12th century. However it does not seem that these "new" practices carried much farther than the Mari realm that Tšumbõlat ruled.

Hence it would create just that bit more interesting game play for a pagan faith to "branch" without reforming the whole wide faith under one true dogma. That should be a 3 Holy Site + massive piety price tags goal.
Branching an unreformed Pagan faith would affect the realm in question and should require King level title and/or 3 County titles in addition to one Holy Site, and the appropriate piety costs.
Then you'd have to deal with the effort to convert and reform the larger faith or trying to consolidate your own branch to eventually be reformed(organised) by repeated smaller reforms on a more local level.

But ultimately I'm just not that exited for pagan reformation while it's the CK2 style "all or nothing" system. It just means that playing an unreformed pagan is that much more stale. Hell, in this system two dogmatic and established religions like Chistianity and Islam might see more variance withing their faith than unreformed pagans.

I guess we'll just have to see how much variance and content there is in other pagan religions besides Norse and Tengri.
 
Last edited:
I guess we'll just have to see how much variance and content there is in other pagan religions besides Norse and Tengri.
Romuva was fun in ck2, but well, how much of the content carry over could we expect? Perhaps ...
 
I don't. It acutally makes sense, that if a ruler truly wants to reform his faith he must gain an influentail postion first. If not every ruler of a pagan faith is going to reform it and soon his branch will die out before it even gets started.

TBH - that sounds more like it should make for a "soft" restriction, rather than a hard one. Fervor seems to be the basis for the ability of a given faith to expand itself, so a newly created faith without controlling any holy site does have very low fervor, easily getting overwhelmed by other faiths and the counties quickly moving to a heresy - but with a lot of effort and dedication the ruler could actually make it spread despite this. Otherwise, a lot of real religions and heresies would have not appeared ever...

For reformation of unorganized faiths, however, it does make sense - you are basically establishing a dogma for a non-organized religion and it's going to affect a lot more than your own demesne, so for sure you should be control a lot of holy sites for that religion
 
Will it be possible to mod a new group of religion (abramic, pagan etc.)?
From Dev Diary #20:
Moddability
I’m going to go on a quick tangent here and talk about modding Faiths and Religions in Crusader Kings III. Primarily, I want to mention that everything I have talked about so far is completely modular! This means Religion Groups, Religions, Faiths, Doctrines, Tenets, and Holy Sites can all be swapped in and out, modified, changed, or new ones added with even just a basic knowledge of scripting.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Rather than creating a new faith to add a single trait, let me say I wanted to enact 'Unrestricted Marriage' in my existing religion but only within my Realm. Is this something that is possible without a mod?
 
It's hilarious how many Supreme Gentlemen were angry at certain posters for merely mentioning the concept of same sex marriage. Anyway, why would you need 3 holy sites in order to reform your pagan religion? It should be more related to the strenght and centralisation of your realm.
 
Anyway, why would you need 3 holy sites in order to reform your pagan religion?

It a) is a rather convenient way to ensure that no other ruler belonging to the faith is an equal (or even superior) when it comes to religious influence (over holy sites) since you can't have two rulers with three holy sites, which means the reformer isn't simply the person that can win the race to X piety (coupled with any lower bar), b) makes it rather obvious (assuming you know/remember to check where the holy sites are) if a realm is getting close to reforming (giving you the opportunity to either help or hinder them) compared to a situation where there's less/no emphasis on holding specific counties, and c) makes it relatively difficult (assuming the holy sites are somewhat spread out) to reach the point where you can reform (and thus makes reformations something you have to earn/something the AI only rarely will be in a position to achieve) compared to some lesser condition (e.g. "Be a king and have one holy site").

Of course, there might perhaps be other requirements that would satisfy the conditions above (and/or various other conditions you might want to satisfy) that might be interesting to consider if alternative ways to reform are on the table, but they might be more expensive to implement (both when it comes to performance (and sooner or later even small performance costs start to add up) and when it comes to time (as figuring out every possible odd scenario and handling it as desired is going to take longer than just having one straightforward condition)), particularly as they might require further conditions to break ties (e.g. you could have two kings with two holy sites and you presumably want to avoid the "First to X piety wins" situation) or to ensure that some advantage is significant enough (e.g. if the strongest ruler has 10k men and the next four strongest rulers have 9.8k, 9.7k, 9.2k, and 9k, the strongest ruler isn't necessarily in a position to go "Accept my reformation or else!"), so all things considered the "Have three or more holy sites" condition is pretty decent if we're getting just the one way of doing it.
 
Has there been any mention of forming a new faith without any changed tenets?

Especially in retrospect, many of the schisms and heresies in this era weren't really about much of anything, especially nothing as dramatic as the tenets we've seen so far. E.g. foreign language grammar. Or, in some cases, the primary issue was just directly questioning the legitimacy and authority of the other sects ordination.

I wonder if you could add a piety cost to modify the relationship modifier with the parent religion in either direction, so a doctrinally identical faith is regarded as evil or a divergent faith is held in full communion.