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Dev Diary #46 - Political Parties

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Good evening! Today we are finally ready to talk in detail about Political Parties. This has been a much-requested feature for Victoria 3, and indeed the political world would feel a little empty without the Whigs and Tories going at each other’s throats. We’ve listened, and some months ago we revealed that we were indeed working on implementing this feature. Today we are ready to talk about how Parties will factor into the political landscape of the game.

In Victoria 3, a Political Party is an alliance between Interest Groups. They appear in countries that have Elections, and are absent in countries without them, differentiating the experience and mechanics of democracies from autocracies. Interest Groups must be added or removed from government as a single bloc, which means that you’ll need to make strategic decisions about the makeup of your government and deal with the consequences. The Liberal Party may for instance contain both the Intelligentsia and the Industrialists, who will both back your plans to move toward a free market economy but diverge on the issue of child labor. Sometimes an opposition Interest Group might decide that it wants to join a Party currently in government (or vice versa) - in this circumstance, the Interest Group will leave their old Party and be marked as “wanting to join” their new party. This won’t force any Interest Group into or out of government, but if you decide to reform your government under these circumstances you must treat that Interest Group as being a member of the new Party, bringing them into or out of government as a single bloc.

The Republican Party in the USA is made up of an alliance between the Industrialists and the Intelligentsia, primarily opposing the ruling Democratic Party which is constituted by the Southern Planters and Petite Bourgeoisie.
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Just as Parties ally together when you form your government, they also share their Momentum in Elections, which determines their votes. If for instance the fascist leader of the Petite Bourgeoisie joins the Conservative Party and is caught up in a political scandal, the whole Party suffers the electoral consequences. On the other hand, as the Landowners begin to lose their political relevance in an increasingly industrialized economy they might cling to relevance by attaching themselves to the rising Fascist Party, who may bring them Political Power from the votes the whole Party gains in the Election.

The Whig Party, consisting of a large number of opposition IG’s, has landed themselves in a corruption scandal. Rowland Hill, leader of the Armed Forces and prominent Reformer, may have seriously harmed the entire bloc’s election campaign.
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During the Election Campaign period (which as you’ll recall lasts 6 months before the final votes are cast), you’re likely to get events relating to the various Party’s campaign efforts that can have a major impact on Momentum. These events are inspired by the campaigns and scandals of the period, such as Gladstone’s Midlothian campaign and the whistle-stop tours that became popular in the USA.

There are 11 potential Political Parties that your Interest Groups can join. At any given time, any combination of these parties might exist or not exist. Parties emerge and disband dynamically, so the political landscape can be very different between countries and playthroughs. The following Parties can emerge throughout the course of the game:
  • The Agrarian Party
  • The Anarchist Society
  • The Communist Party
  • The Conservative Party
  • The Fascist Party
  • The Free Trade Party
  • The Liberal Party
  • The Military Party
  • The Radical Party
  • The Religious Party
  • The Social Democratic Party

Many of these parties are aligned primarily around a particular Interest Group’s core ideologies, which other IG’s may join under the right circumstances. The Liberal Party for instance is the natural home of the Intelligentsia due to their Liberal Ideology, but they may be swayed towards other Parties under various circumstances. Other Parties are aligned more strongly with Leader Ideologies that emerge throughout the game, such as the Communist Party and the Radical Party. Each of these Parties has a variety of dynamic names based on national, cultural, and religious factors - for instance in Great Britain the Conservative Party is localized as the Tories, while in the USA they are known as the Democratic Party.

Interest Groups (IG’s) may join a Political Party if they are not Marginalized and if their country has any of the Laws that allow Elections. Which Political Party an Interest Group will join is determined by a wide variety of factors, some of which I’ll list here:
  • IG’s with the Republican, Radical, Market Liberal, or Reformer Leader Ideologies are much more likely to join the Liberal Party
  • The Industrialists are more likely to be drawn towards the Conservative Party if the country has public healthcare or schools, or when voting laws allow the lower strata to vote.
  • Weaker IG’s might join the Agrarian Party alongside the Rural Folk in a push to abolish Serfdom. Scandinavian countries are much more likely to develop an Agrarian Party.
  • In a Council Republic, IG’s led by Anarchist leaders might leave the Communist Party if the country’s ruler is a Vanguardist.
  • When an IG with a Fascist leader becomes powerful, weaker conservative IG’s might join the Fascist Party in a bid to retain their political relevance.
  • If a powerful IG has a Social Democratic leader, weaker leftist IG’s may fall in line behind their more moderate cousins. Likewise, weaker Social Democrats might join a stronger Communist Party.

To summarize: in Victoria 3, Interest Groups band together into Political Parties for the purposes of elections and forming governments. There are many dynamic names and conditions that work to create plausible and flavourful Parties no matter which direction you choose to guide your country.

That’s all for today! Join us next week when Mikael will talk about the mechanics behind Religious Conversion and Cultural Assimilation.
 
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Other Parties are aligned more strongly with Leader Ideologies that emerge throughout the game, such as the Communist Party and the Radical Party.
The thing I'm supposed to get from this is that the "radical party"(what does this mean?) and the communist party emerge late game and not the silly meme that "radicals are just driven by cult of personality" right? right???
 
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Not a fan of the idea that political parties have to be treated as a bloc when joining the government. There should be the possibility to represent a situation where one wing of the party ends up being ascendant in the new government and the other wing(s) get sidelined or betrayed.
Since when do wings of parties form government instead of whole parties? The strength of the individual wings (= the IGs) is reflected in which laws get passed.
 
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Damn this seems actually a pretty cool implementation of parties! Thank you for listening to the community this time. One question: Are the 11 potential parties hard-coded or is that moddable?
 
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So, out of curiousity, which parties did you select for the Russian parties? I'm especially thinking about the Mensheviks, Trudoviks and SRs, all of which could arguably be Social Democratic. (I'm assuming the communist party will be the Bolsheviks). It does seem like this way, either the Mensheviks or the SRs will be absent.
 
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At that point surely you can just do away with the political-party system entirely and just have Interest Groups alone? Just like it was before the system was added.
I disagree. These factions are not perfect at mapping onto the IGs either. The Southern Democrats are a good fit for a Conservative party, because they were a coalition of religious people, landowners, and just regular ol' racists.

I think it is pretty important for immersion to not have the United States continuously running through a party system where there are constantly more than 2 parties.

Another alternative to doing this, I guess, would simply be to give American IGs much greater than usual weighting toward Liberal and Conservative parties
 
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Will all types of parties participate in all elections? Anarchists for example have often been ideologically opposed to participating in elections and instead preferred to operate in a extra parliamentary way. While it would seem possible for them to take part in elections in a council republic it would be very strange for them to participate in an election in a monarchy.

Also will it be possible for nationalist or “ethnic” parties to emerge? I’m thinking of for example Sinn Fein and the IPP that advocated for autonomy and independence for Ireland and was more tied to a culture and ethnicity than to a interest group. An other example of this would be the bund in Russia.
 
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Ok but I do have a question, what happens when a particular issue has split support among a party in government. Let's take your example of The Liberal Party with both the Intelligentsia and the Industrialists whom are divergent on the issue of child labour. If you begin to pass a law outlawing child labour, what happens to the party? Does it split?
I guess passing laws works as we know it with the individual IGs supporting or fighting the new law, which means there can be a political split in the parties.
 
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So there are 11 parties and 8 IGs?
And now we can witness a civil war between the Communist Party containing communism-leading landowners/priests and the Social Democratic Party under the trade union‘s Social Democratic leader.
 
Can IGs be split between multiple PPs?

Example: can the Armed Forces IG be a member of both the Communist and Fascist PPs at the same time, or is it all-or-none?

There's no splitting
 
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I didn't know that back in the day the US conservative party was the Democratic Party.

It's a bit simplified, but any system that tries to cover every nation in the world during this era is necessarily oversimplified. But yeah, they were most popular among the slaveowner crowd, and it didn't fully switch to the modern alignment until about the 1970s. (LBJ's embrace of civil rights made the racists reconsider the Democrats, and while the Republicans never went anywhere near as racist as Jim Crow-era Democrats, they did pivot to a lot more of the Southern/rural/etc. concerns starting with Nixon.)

Seems good, and I think this is a perfectly serviceable system given that it was a later addition anyway.

That said, calling the Democrats the 'conservative' party in the US is a little bit awkward. They were obviously conservative in the sense that they supported slavery and then racial segregation. However, on economic issues they were not notably more conservative than the Republicans -- indeed, a lot of the populists from the era were actually Democrats. That's not to say there were not a lot of economic conservative Democrats, rather, both they and Republicans had complex internal factions, some of whom were more or less liberal.

My alternative suggestion, which I think is a quick and easy stopgap, would be to simply localize the various parties in the US as mostly being factions of the Dems or GOP. E.g. you might make the Conservatives the "Southern Democrats", the Agrarian party as the "Agrarian Democrats", the radical party as "Radical Republicans" etc. Keeping the Know-Nothings as, I assume, the Fascist party (?) would be fine as would the Socialist Party etc. But the main ones should probably just be variations on Dem/GOP so that we don't get an ahistorical multi-party system in the US.

Given that the Republicans didn't exist until the 1850s, that's not especially historical for a game that starts in 1836. And I'm a bit loath to get too US-focused, because it tends to distort gameplay in the rest of the world if you aren't careful.

So if the Conservative Party receives a majority of votes in a UK general election, can I, as the player, ignore the result of the election and put a Liberal-Anarchist-Social Democratic government in power?

If it's like past versions, there'll be some government types where you're locked into accepting the will of the voters, some where you can overrule them, and some where they never get a vote in the first place. But yes, I'm curious about this too.

The thing I'm supposed to get from this is that the "radical party"(what does this mean?) and the communist party emerge late game and not the silly meme that "radicals are just driven by cult of personality" right? right???

What I get from it is that they can emerge, not that they will.

Also, I assume that radicals are extremist liberals - social freedom, implemented violently if need be.
Here's my guess at similarities, taking inspiration from Vicky 2's political system.
  • The Conservative Party
    • The Agrarian Party
    • The Fascist Party
    • The Military Party
    • The Religious Party
  • The Liberal Party
    • The Free Trade Party
    • The Radical Party
  • The Social Democratic Party
    • The Anarchist Society
    • The Communist Party
 
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So there are 11 parties and 8 IGs?
And now we can witness a civil war between the Communist Party containing communism-leading landowners/priests and the Social Democratic Party under the trade union‘s Social Democratic leader.
Presumably not all parties will be "active" at the same time, and parties will only exist if they have sufficient support from at least one IG which wants to be a member of that party more than any of the others.
 
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The Republicans didn't exist in 1836...

They didn't say they did, some parties are made possible by technology and as the dev diary states IG can join together. So while their won't be a Republican party at the start it can form some time later.

Also, can we ban parties? This feels very important, especially for Oligarchic/quasi-democratic republics.

My first planned playthrough is as a Ind+Int combo, and I'd like to discourage the Intellectuals from joining any leftist parties that might appear.

The closest thing to banning parties would be suppressing the interest groups that would or have formed the party

Will pops vote for IGs in elections or parties? Can pops identifying with a particular IG vote for a party that their IG is not part of?

They'd vote for the IG that gives the support to the party there's really no sense in it being split out


How can a player break parties apart? For example: if I don't want intelligentsia and industrialists to be together in one party.

You probably can't
 
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Parties switched early 1900s Teddy was the last progressive Republican.
Ehh, that's not really true.

If you're trying to think accurately about the ideology of the Democrats and Republicans in the Victorian age, there are two main facts that you need to grapple with:
1. The parties were just not as ideologically united as they are nowadays, both parties had liberal and conservative factions for a long time.
2. The issues that the parties were split on are oftentimes hard to map to our modern conceptions of ideology onto (and oftentimes, on issues of the day that we can very easily identify as "this is the left-wing side and this is the right-wing side," the parties didn't really differ).
 
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