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Dev Diary #91: Starbases

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary marks the start of dev diaries about a major upcoming update that we have named the 'Cherryh' update after science fiction author C.J. Cherryh. This is a major update that will include some very significant reworks to core gameplay systems, reworks that we have been prototyping and testing for some time. Right now, we cannot say anything about the exact nature of the update or anything at all about when it will be released, other than that it's far away. Normally, we wouldn't be doing dev diaries on an update at this stage at all, but there's simply so much to talk about that we have to start early. Cherryh will be a massive update, the largest one we've done to date, and there are many new and changed things to talk about in the coming weeks and months.

Please bear in mind that screenshots are from an early internal build and will contain art and interfaces that are WIP, non-final numbers, hot code and all that business.

Border Rework
We've never been entirely happy with the border system in Stellaris. While it generally works fine from a gameplay perspective, it has some rather quirky elements, such as being able to claim ownership of systems that you have never visited and indeed have no ability to reach and making it hard to tell what the exact border adjustments will be when planets are ceded or outposts are built. For this reason, we have decided to fundamentally rework the Stellaris border system to be based on solar system ownership. Each system will have a single owner, with complete control of the system, and borders are now simply a reflection of system ownership rather than a cause for it to change. In the Cherryh update, who owns a system is almost always based on the owner of the Starbase in said system.
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Starbases
A Starbase is a space station orbiting the star of said system. Each system can only have a single Starbase, but this can be anything from a remote Outpost to a massive Citadel with its own 'fleet' of orbiting defense stations. Starbases can be upgraded and specialized in a variety of ways (more details on this below), and is the primary means of determining system ownership. This means that wars are no longer fought for colonies controlling a nebulous blob of border that may not actually include the systems you really want, but rather for the exact systems you are interested in, and their starbases. This change of course would not be possible if we kept the wargoal system that exists in the live version of the game (just imagine the size of that wargoal list...), but more on that in a couple weeks.
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As Starbases now determine system ownership, it will no longer be possible to colonize or invade primitives outside your borders in the Cherryh update, but if a system contains a colony and no starbase, it will still count as being inside the borders of the colony's owner. These restrictions are moddable. Since Starbases now cost influence to construct (see below), we have removed the influence cost for colonizing and attacking primitives.

Starbases entirely replace the old system of Frontier Outposts.

Starbase Construction
With borders from colonies gone, empires now start only owning their home system, with a Starbase already constructed around their home star. To expand outside their home system, empires will have to construct Outposts in surveyed systems. An Outpost is a level 'zero' Starbase that has only very basic defenses and cannot support any buildings or modules, but also does not count towards your maximum Starbase Capacity (more on that below). Building an Outpost in a system costs influence, with the cost dependent on how far away the system is and how contigous it is to your empire as a whole, so 'snaking' or building starbases to ring in a certain part of space will be more influence-costly than simply expanding in a natural way. Starbases do not cost any influence upkeep, just an up-front cost when first building one in a system. As this change makes influence far more important in the early game, there will also be significant balance changes to empire influence generation in the Cherryh update.
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As an aside note, because we felt it made very little sense to have a home system with a fully built Starbase but no surveyed planet, empire home systems will now start surveyed, with a only slightly randomized amount of resources, and mining/research stations for some of those resources already in place. This should also help make player starts a little less random, ensuring that you are never *completely* without resources in your home system.
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Another thing we have been wary about when working on this is making sure that building the Outposts for each system does not simply feel like adding tedium. Right now, between the fact that which systems you choose to spend your limited influence on is an extremely important choice, and various tweaks and interface improvements we are making to ease up the process of developing your systems, we are confident that this will not be the case. We've also made it so that there are no entirely 'empty' systems (systems with no resources at all), as we discovered during playtesting that spending influence to claim such a system felt extremely unrewarding.

Upgrades and Capacity
Each empire will have a Starbase Capacity that represents the number of upgraded Starbases they can support. There are five levels of Starbases:
Outpost: A basic Outpost that exists only to claim a system. Costs no energy maintenance and does not count towards the Starbase Capacity, and cannot support buildings or modules. Outposts will also not show up in the outliner or galaxy map, as they are not meant to be interacted with at all unless it is to upgrade the Outpost to a Starport.
Starport: The first level of upgraded Starbase, available at the start of the game. Supports 2 modules and 1 building.
Starhold: The second level of upgraded Starbase, unlocked through tech. Supports 4 modules and 2 buildings.
Star Fortress: The third level of upgraded Starbase, unlocked through tech. Supports 6 modules and 3 buildings.
Citadel: The final level of upgraded Starbase, unlocked through tech. Supports 6 modules and 4 buildings.
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Regardless of the level of the Starbase, so long as it is not an Outpost, it will use 1 Starbase Capacity and will show up on the map and in the outliner. Overall, the design goal is for the vast majority of Starbases to be Outposts that you never have to manage, with a handful of upgraded Starbases that are powerful and critical assets for your empire. Going over your Starbase Capacity will result in sharply increased Starbase energy maintenance costs. Starbase Capacity can be increased through techs, traditions and other such means. You also gain a small amount of Starbase Capacity from the number of Pops in your empire. If you end up over Starbase Capacity for whatever reason, it is possible to downgrade upgraded Starbases back into Outposts. It is also possible to dismantle Starbases entirely and give up control of those systems, so long as they are not in a system with a colonized planet.
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Spaceports and Ship Construction
Starbases fully replace Spaceports in the role of system/planet defense and military ship construction. Spaceports still exist, but are no longer separate stations but rather an integrated part of the planet, and can only build civilian ships (Science Ships, Construction Ships and Colony Ships). To build military ships you will need a Starbase with at least one Shipyard module (more on that below). Starbases also replace Spaceports/Planets in that they are now the primary place to repair, upgrade, dock and rally ships, though civilian ships are also able to repair at planets.
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Modules and Buildings
All non-Outpost Starbases can support Modules and Buildings. Some of these are available from the start of the game, while others are unlocked by tech. Some modules and buildings are only available in certain systems, for example Trading Hubs can only be constructed in colonized systems.

Modules are the fundamental, external components of the Starbase, and determine its actual role. Module choices include Trading Hubs (for improving the economy of colonized systems), Anchorages (for Naval Capacity), Shipyards (for building ships, duh), and different kinds of defensive modules such as gun turrets and strike craft hangar bays that improve the Starbase's combat ability. There is no restrictions on the number of modules you can have of a certain type, besides the actual restriction on module slots itself. This means, for example, that you can have a Starbase entirely dedicated to Shipyards, capable of building up to 6 ships in parallell. Modules will also change the graphical appearance of the Starbase, so a dedicated Shipyard will look different from a massive defensive-oriented fortress brimming with dozens of gun turrets.
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Buildings represent internal structures inside the Starbase proper, and typically work to enhance modules or provide a global buff to the Starbase or system as a whole. Building choices include the Offworld Trading Company that increases the effectiveness of all Trading Hub modules, and the Listening Post that massively improves the Starbase's sensor range. You cannot have multiples of the same building on the same Starbase.
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Defenses
One of the fundamental problems with the military stations in the live version of the game is that they simply do not have enough firepower. Even with impressive hit points and shields, a station with at most a dozen or so guns simply cannot match the firepower of a whole fleet. An another issue is the ability to build multiple defense stations in the same system, meaning that no single station can be strong enough to match a fleet, as otherwise a system with several such stations will be effectively invulnerable. For this reason we decided to consolidate all system defenses into the Starbase mechanics, but not into a single station. Starbases come with a basic array of armaments and utilities (gun and missile turrets, shields and armor, etc), with the exact number of weapons based on the level of the Starbase. These are automatically kept up to date with technological advances, so your Starbases won't be fielding red lasers and basic deflectors when facing fleets armed with tachyon lances.
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Additionally, Starbases (with the exception of Outposts) have the ability to construct defense platforms to protect them. Constructed defense platforms will form a 'fleet' around the Starbase, supporting it with their own weapons and giving Starbases the firepower needed to engage entire fleets. The amount of defense platforms a Starbase can support may depend on factors such as starbase size and modules/buildings, technology, policies, and so on. The exact details here are still being worked on, but the design intent is that if you invest into them, Starbase defenses will scale against fleets across the whole game rather just being completely outpaced in the late game as military stations and spaceports currently are in the live version.
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One last note on Starbases: For a variety of reasons (among them to avoid something like the tedious rebuilding of Spaceports that happens at the end of wars) Starbases cannot be destroyed through conventional means. They can, however be disabled and even captured by enemies. More on this in a couple weeks.

... whew, this was a long one but that's all for today! Next week we'll continue talking about the Cherryh update, with the topic being Faster than Light travel...
 
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Your sidenote gives an interesting idea. You would have a "frontier" essentially, where you could colonize systems you don't own, but no one else owns that system, so it would still be a "wilderness"; if another empire comes along and builds a starbase, they claim the colony. It would have a neat risk v. reward idea.

Why not. There sure is no line you can cross in (3D) space, rather a zone you control, extending into a zone you have influence on. In the game this would translate into a 'hard' border(line) and a 'soft' zone of influence there after. Thinking of one or the other space opera, we will certainly have to add 'neutral zones' inbetween empires as well.
 
A large obstacle to reducing micro is that you can't queue up something in the future if you can't pay for it in the present. Putting dev time on the resource framework to allow something in the queue to not get started until resources (and other relevant conditions) are met would be one way to address the micro issue. While the discussion in this thread focussed on the unknown "construct many outposts at lategame" clickflow, the micro issue I'm concerned of is "rebuild my fleet in the lategame". When I realised I was re-enacting Starcraft muscle memory to build hundreds of ships over 10 production sites, that's when the immersion broke and I stopped playing Stellaris. I will return to Stellaris when the clickflow is better - the hope is that Cherryh will achieve this but I am patient.

Now, some of my concerns are already addressed with Starbase parallel shipyard construction. Fewer, stronger ships made in fewer production sites (with parallel queues) is a way to reduce the micro. Nonetheless, what I'd like to see is a toggleable 'repeat last item' feature for shipyards. Or whatever else (e.g. EU4 style template-macros) to prevent me from "waking up" from the game because I realised I'm just cycling through some hotkeys and clicking the same things ad nauseum every X seconds to rebuild my lategame fleet.
 
But the new war swapping system can only possibly require MORE clicks than it does now, not less. Every single system traded in war will have to be manually selected using the new system, which is exactly the same problem in the war context as it is in the colonizing/frontier outpost context.
Incorrect.

If I had to guess:
  • The warscores for systems are calculated based on their overall value: colonies + starports + resources + misc special features.
  • You can earn warscore by occupying starports and colonies.
  • Systems (as opposed to colonies previously) won't be listed as duplicated cede/liberate/cleanse goals for literally hundreds of individual options.
  • Instead there will simply be three goals: cede/liberate/cleanse systems. This will take you to a sector creation style galaxy map system selector. Hovering over a system would display the warscore value. The other types of wargoals would remain the same.
  • If you click negotiate to end a conflict, the enemy requests would be displayed on the galaxy map in red, yours in green. Click to add or remove systems from the final horse trading and finalise the new borders.
  • Presumably there will also be regulations - as with sectors - that claimed systems must be adjacent to a friendly system, so you could seize a snake of claimed systems leading to the planet you want, but not create border gore by poaching a planet in the middle of their empire.
 
@Wiz would it be possible to see the preliminary script for the starbase for modders interested in this? Obviously it will change but still curious. Thanks!
 
@Wiz, I know you say that influence costs will make it harder to annex a bunch of space at once, but is it possible we could have a queue system that allows us to "designate" key star systems we want to expand to, and when we have enough influence for one of them, the system sends a nearby construction ship to build an outpost at the closest star, then when we have enough influence for another, build the next one?
 
1. Don't like that colonization or invasion can't be used to claim a system, with the same influence cost as building an outpost would have.

We know however that Outposts can be taken/captured, and relatively easy at that. If it was to cost influence to do so, it would not make sense. The reason would be that expenditure would be offset one to the other; thus making outpost spam viable. Although the details have yet to be explained, we can extrapolate the risk/reward of the two currencies.

Influence and Energy output

How one spends his influence must now correspond to what he is capable of defending, or risk blowing influence. Energy output in the form of defensive fleet action is the other factor. We know they are testing this now - as @Whiz has been saying for a few months.

Hard, stationary defenses are going to have to be dealt with to defeat an empire, but Outpost are not such "hard targets". So, taking lightly defended territory will provide tension and the push-pull of a "front" if you will.

Also: You can "invade" to claim a system, it is just a large military expenditure.
 
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Sounds really great. To me it seems pointless micro will get replaced with more meaningful micro, which is good. I don't have a problem with micromanagement if there are meaningful decisions behind it. (I'm especially glad about the fact that the annoying spaceport rebuild overkill after wars will be gone.)

A thing of concern for me would be the AI: I hope it will be able to handle the big changes to core systems. Especially after it finally seems to work fine and bugfree. (For the most part at least, there are still some problems of course.)
 
like seriously do people not get that you won't be making hundreds of outposts since outposts aren't ever destroyed?

Yes, I think a few are not thinking about Grand Strategy, rather....."how many clicks".
 
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To some degree it actually mitigates the mining/research station clicking because you typically take things one system at a time instead of suddenly claiming five new systems that need to be built up. We're discussing ways to make construction of stations easier though, including having mining/research stations be disabled rather than destroyed, better construction of them from the galaxy map, and possibly automation via Starbases.

Why not just add all mining stations as defense platform analog?
I mean:
if in system is unclaimed resource - allow create "mining station" at object location in station menu.
Done.
Less micro - you don't need 7-9 building ship for creating economy and expanding at one time.
If you haven't station you cant construct mining stations. So why need constrict it manually? That haven't any sense in new game mechanic.

1. Claim system
2. Build stations from outpost menu
3. create new outpost.

... Much easier than:
1.claim system
2,sent builders
3. find and click on everything with resources
4. construct more builders because all they working now
 
So, in theory we can build a star fortress in the same system as a ring world? If so that would be the worst type of system to try and take.
why? it's not like the Ringworld segments still have their own spaceports...
 
... Much easier than:
1.claim system
2,sent builders
3. find and click on everything with resources
4. construct more builders because all they working now

You can already assign a ship to go and build everything they can in any number of target systems from the galaxy map, so wouldn't really be that much faster.
 
Well, I'm already hyped. I think this is the first step into making wars much more dynamic. It means that, even if you lose the first battle of a war, you can still weaken your enemy enough to make it impossible for them to take out a massive starbase. With that it woulb be easier to bounce back. I like it. It also gives me some serious Star Wars vibes. Can't wait to name my first Citadel Kuat.
 
So, I'm trying to summarize everything here:

  • There won't be any independent defense platforms anymore, they will be something that Starport can build to help on its defense.
  • To invade a planet, you must first defeat the starport (assuming it's not an outpost in which case is considered "defeated" by default.
  • There won't be systems empty of resources anymore.
  • You can only colonize a planet if you built at least an outpost on the system's star.
  • If a primitive civilization achieves FTL inside your border you can choose to make them a protectorate or prevent them from becoming FTL capable (how?)

Assuming that border projection won't exist anymore, as you can only control a system if you have an outpost on it, how exactly will the new border paint itself on the map?
I'm thinking if you have like your capital system in the middle and then a bunch of unclaimed stars between all the ones you claimed creating an effect like a torus (or donut, if you will).
 
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Squeeeee! I love everything!

I just wonder (assuming it's not too early and it hasn't been decided yet) are the shipset art assets for Fortresses and Defence Stations going to be reused in some other role? Or do they still exist, maybe as upgrades to the defence platforms around starbases?
 
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