Dev Diary: Decorations Patch

[raf8655]

Keep in mind, in fairness, that there are probably many players who don't even play mods, let alone developer mode or other "advanced" features. Many CS players have never played video games before. Many probably don't read forums or watch YouTube videos. How many of them know that these mods exist?



That said, I'm looking forward to seeing bigger updates as well.

I highly doubt this, it's almost impossible not to know the MODs, also because even if there were someone approaching the game for the first time they would still notice something in the game home, right?

 

[unoace1006]

this is nice but it doesn't address how the game treats homeless cims. increasing well being is not enough. the way the game has a homeless-to-criminal pipeline is...not good especially since the cops are basically the only mechanic to address this.

You've introduced a cool challenge with homeless cims but no interesting or compelling ways to actually interact or solve that challenge. i think that is the necessary next step.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/improving-administration.1682215/

I’ve said this and suggested a few ways to make the game more interesting. The simulation might be “complex” under the hood but it’s also incredibly shallow on the surface for the player. Truly ironic.

At this point I’m not hopeful the devs will ever be able to enhance the simulation. Fascinating design choices. Not the ones I would make but they’re not my choices to make.

 

[Jen1]

11 months for a prop menu that should have been included day one. Good job, I guess.

You can (technically) make this same comment to any and all additions CO make to the game. Ever. As if nothing would please you, because it was not implemented on day one.
I'm sorry but I respectfully consider this kind of comment non-constructive.

 

[ProfessorHornbuckle]

You can (technically) make this same comment to any and all additions CO make to the game. Ever. As if nothing would please you, because it was not implemented on day one.
I'm sorry but I respectfully consider this kind of comment non-constructive.

It's not about day one. It's about how this is content we've already had SINCE day one. It just didn't have a UI. It's like someone handing you a framed photo and saying "I got you this framed photo!" but it was already hanging on your wall, and already in a frame, and all they did was put a plastic film on the glass. Now it's harder to see, but hey, the glass is protected...I guess. But the better experience is with the plastic off. So you're just going to peel the plastic off. And this person thinks this is an incredible gift they've given you? An apology for their lack of presence, their lack of attention paid to you? Promises they've broken to you? Their inability to ever keep a promise, ever be on time, ever answer your texts?

The relationship we have with this game and it's developers is terrible, and they are giving us bad presents they pulled off the wall on their way in when they realized this is the first time we're going out in 2 months and they forgot to get us anything.

Trust me, I don't think "This should've been in the game...!" is very fair, very often. But this game is quite literally unfinished. It clearly launched incomplete. It's still incomplete. And no, giving us features that people BEGGED for before launch, that the CEO of the company stated she had no interest in developing, while talking about how she wasn't aware (somehow) that people actually wanted features like this, 10 months after launch, is not a gesture of good will- it is too little, quite literally, and too late, also quite literally. We already have this! And it's BETTER the way we already have it!

I can't understand how you guys are happy to be getting something we *already have* in a *lesser form*.

 

[Hubbubb17]

HOMELESSNESS​

... citizens lose their homes, either because they cannot afford them or because they get destroyed, [so] they become homeless. If they can afford it, they will leave the city, and if they cannot, they will find temporary shelter in your city’s parks or abandoned buildings.

... homelessness now affects demand in two ways. It causes fewer new households to spawn while increasing the demand for high density residential housing.

Depending on how many homeless households your city has, it may take a while before all of them get back on their feet or find their way out of the city, but you can help the process along by fulfilling the demand for residential zoning and providing public transportation out of the city, such as intercity buses or trains.

Hello! Hope you all enjoyed your much-deserved breaks!

I'm trying to understand the logic of how this works ...

If the cim household couldn't previously afford to remain in their home, they would become homeless...

Subsequently ... they remained in the city because they also couldn't afford transportation out of the city ...

So ... with those two givens in mind ... when I satisfy demand for high density residential housing--which typically has higher land value (and thus higher rents) than low or medium density--how will a homeless cim or cim household be able to afford moving into this newly available housing when they couldn't previously afford to remain in the housing they already occupied and/or couldn't even afford mass transit out of the city?

Just trying to square this circle here.

Thanks for all the work you are doing! Can't wait to play with the props!

 

[FuschiaOutLaw]

Hi everyone. We’re back with a development diary as patch 1.1.8, also known as Decorations Patch, is almost ready for you. Yes, it isn’t Detailer’s Patch #2 as this patch is not as big as the last one, but we hope you will still enjoy it. Since we wanted to get the homeless fix out as soon as possible and the decorations menu was ready to ship, we decided to bundle them together, along with a bunch of other bug fixes of course. Today, we’ll go through the new menu, how props work, and what has changed with homelessness. So let’s dive in!

DECORATIONS MENU​

We have been impressed by the creative use of the many props included in the game and when we first started putting Detailer’s Patch together, we knew we wanted to include an official and supported way to access them. For those who aren’t aware, it’s been possible to access and place props through developer mode, but as the name suggests, this isn’t a feature intended for everyday use, and as such can break things. So we’re excited to introduce the new Decorations Menu as part of the Landscaping options bringing you access to many props you can use to decorate your cities.

View attachment 1182501
Add a personal touch to any empty area of your city using the props in the decorations menu

Landscaping now includes 8 new categories packed full of props, from stones in Nature to benches and fountains in Park to crates and silos in Industrial Props. We looked at all the existing props in the game and selected the ones that both make sense and work when placed in game. As an example, we haven’t included props that only make sense when placed on a building, like chimneys or air condition units, as prop placement on buildings is not supported. In total, you will have access to 298 props to decorate any area of your city that needs a little something extra.

Placing a prop from one of the new categories works a lot like placing trees or buildings. They have a collision area based on the item’s size and shape, and just like trees, they can be placed on top of surface areas to create beautiful plazas or manicured gardens. Once placed, they can be selected, moved using the Relocate button in the Selected Info Panel, or removed using the Bulldozer. And perhaps best of all, props are free to place as they are decoration items that don’t impact the city - well, besides making it look cool of course!

View attachment 1182502
Create plazas, parks, gardens, back alleys, or more using props and surfaces

HOMELESSNESS​

Now, let’s talk about homelessness in the game. When citizens lose their homes, either because they cannot afford them or because they get destroyed, they become homeless. If they can afford it, they will leave the city, and if they cannot, they will find temporary shelter in your city’s parks or abandoned buildings. This is where they tended to get stuck, unable to find new homes or leave the city. Patch 1.1.8 contains a series of fixes to make sure those homeless households have a chance to get back on their feet.

Previously, we had a random check for whether homeless households would look for suitable homes in the city. This has been removed so with patch 1.1.8 homeless will always try to find a suitable home in the city. But that in itself isn’t enough, it requires homes for them to move into, and that those homes are not filled by newly created households instead of the city’s homeless population. To ensure this, homelessness now affects demand in two ways. It causes fewer new households to spawn while increasing the demand for high density residential housing.

Depending on how many homeless households your city has, it may take a while before all of them get back on their feet or find their way out of the city, but you can help the process along by fulfilling the demand for residential zoning and providing public transportation out of the city, such as intercity buses or trains.

That brings us to the end of this development diary. We hope this has given you some idea of what to expect for the next patch, and we will of course release the full patch notes when patch 1.1.8f1 goes live. We’re excited to see what you create using the Decorations Menu, so don’t hesitate to post screenshots (and tag us on social media if you do) showing off your creations!

Could you guys add the homeless to one of the info panel tabs ? wellbeing for example?

 

[Hubbubb17]

should have been included day one

says who?

 

[Hubbubb17]

Single family housing is expensive. The homeless families in most scenarios cannot afford the rent so why would they go back to living someplace they cannot afford again? So homeless families will of course choose the high density buildings (this likely includes affordable housing within the category) first. An apartment is smaller and easier to maintain. It would be a more ideal starting point for someone that is homeless to get back on their feet again.

I would say this was a brilliant and realistic design decision.

On the flip side -- what I'm wondering about is this ....

High density housing may have smaller sf--but will also have higher land value due to concentration of amenities and services. Often the most expensive rents are in high density residential towers (look at real life).

I'm curious to see in-game to what extent said residences will actually be more affordable than low density residential. Generally speaking, cims living in high density residential will be earning higher salaries because they're working in office towers or high density commercial. Whereas cims working in low density residential will have been working in low density commercial and/or industry.

So I'm not entirely convinced the solution will actually lead to an improvement in the ability of homeless cims to find new homes.

And this doesn't even account for the fact that cims who are homeless because they previously couldn't afford rent or a ticket on a bus out of the city can now miraculously afford rent in a high density residential tower?

The math isn't mathing for me.

 

[Hubbubb17]

HOMELESSNESS​

quick follow-up ... pre-patch (post Economy 2.0) my impression was that the huge numbers of criminals was a side-effect of all the unresolved homeless cims. Is there a new mechanic being introduced to rectify this or are we assuming that, as homeless cims leave the city or find new housing and jobs, the numbers of criminals will sort itself out on its own?

 

[Hubbubb17]

the way the game has a homeless-to-criminal pipeline is...not good especially since the cops are basically the only mechanic to address this.

And also ... immediately after Economy 2.0 it didn't seem to me that effective police coverage had any kind of mitigating effect on criminal behavior. In addition to numbers of criminals (vis a vis homeless cims?) being off the charts, no one arrested and tried ever went to jail or prison.

It seems like we've added a mechanic that gives homeless cims somewhere to go (out of town on a free bus ticket or into more expensive high density residential housing which they likely can't afford any better than the previous home from which they were evicted) but haven't addressed the faulty homeless-criminals pipeline OR the (apparently?) faulty mechanic dealing with criminal behavior in the first place.

Can't wait to give this a spin and see how things go without the Bye Bye Homeless mod.

 

[Hubbubb17]

wow, 298 props for free!!
Thanks.

Finally, I can build small but decent-looking villages. My CPU does not allow more than 100K citizens, so this change is very nice.

can't tell if this is satirical or genuine appreciation

 

[Hubbubb17]

I'm sorry but I respectfully consider this kind of comment non-constructive.

#word

 

[GigaChad1221]

will hotels be fixed in this update so they have business instead of being empty.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

For my own curiosity I would love love love to see a dev diary though about what led to the homelessness bug in the first place, and what the process was to troubleshoot it and ultimately come up with the solution they did.

Other PDX titles do behind the scenes DD's occasionally and I think they go a long way to help players understand the amount of work involved in game development.

 

[RuralConurbation]

Agree with many - as somebody who gave in and started using mods (due to the inadequacy of the game), what is being offered now is a rather watered down official release of what many of us have already been playing with for months.

There is nothing mentioned about improving the performance of the game with larger populations. While CO may surprise us when the release comes, I very much doubt it. A few percent of performance improvement wont make the game more usable and isn't headlining. Two or three hundred percent would - and if the improvements were like that (which they really need to be) they would be headlined in the dev diary.

It seems to me like just a few people (and their dogs) are working on improving this game and most of what is being offered as improvements is just window fluff dressed up as marketing. Most of the serious players see right through it.

The simulation is, no doubt, complex but the developer should have the simulation properly documented internally and the code written in such a way as to be adjustable by many of the programmers. It seems like they don't understand their own simulation code and are frightened to touch it.

More and more it looks as if the work is targeted toward casual game players and city painters and not toward larger city builders. The casual gamers and the city painters probably provide more potential sales, and I understand why the work is focused in this way. It just feels like they have given up supporting the big city builders.

The choice may become self fulfilling : cheese more and more people off for good with slow releases of underwhelming improvements and the customer base and goodwill will fall away more and more - result - lower and lower future game and DLC sales and, ultimately, a plug will be pulled.

 

[co_avanya]

So many questions! I'll try to get through as many as I can now.

Is there a fix for the editor in this patch where you can't save or edit the climate on custom map? Have created a new map but unable to change the default weather as it won't save in the editor.

My tropical island just off Indonesia doesn't look right when its covered in snow for months

No update to the Editor in this patch, and our top priority for it right now is to finalize the asset importing pipeline, so we can support custom assets. But we plan to continue to improve the Editor throughout the game's lifetime.

Hello @co_avanya
Thank you for the news - I'm looking forward to see the whole changelog on release

Do you by chance know if the fix for homelessness does also fix tourists not moving in, or is this another independent topic which still needs to be addressed? My outside connections could make use of more people

The issue with tourism is a different beast and something we're currently looking into. So no fix yet, but we'll keep you posted.

How about animations that come can use for these props in parks etc? Without them being used, the city feels lifeless.

We have a bunch of wishes for improving visuals, but I'm afraid we don't have a timeline for them yet.

If I have the Bye Bye Homeless mod, and remove it, will it break my game with this new patch?

Quick disclaimer: I'm not familiar with the code of Bye Bye Homeless, so this is a better question for the mod's author. From what I understand, the mod checks the homeless population regularly and then removes excess homeless households in the city. If that's all it does, your city should be fine to remove it, but I'd recommend saving as a new file just in case, so you have a back up of the city.

Will rocks and boulders from the new decorations tab be able to be placed underwater?

I hope yes because it will make it easier to make realistic creek and lake areas.

Not everything in the Nature tab can be placed underwater, but boulders can.

If they can afford to leave the city, then they will

Does that mean a bus line with a ticket prize of zero will help?

Problem, that bus also brings people into the city. And I think there is no way to make the fare for going out to zero but a normal prize for going in.

Yes, a free intercity bus can help get the homeless people out of the city.

How will the decorations menu handle different color variations of the same prop? Problem with current FindIt mod is, that color is randomized, so when you place table with four chairs, every chair may have a different color.

Prop colors are randomized when placing the prop. If you're after a specific color, you can place a bunch and then move the ones with the color you want into place while bulldozing the rest.

That's great news!

However, is there any plan to compensate those of us who purchased the Ultimate Edition of Cities: Skylines 2? While refunds have been issued for the Waterfront DLC to those who bought it separately, what about those of us who paid for the Ultimate Edition?

This was covered in The Way Forward FAQ:

I have bought the Ultimate Edition, why do I not get a refund but compensation?​

Distribution of the included Expansion Pass across digital and physical storefronts creates complexities that makes it impossible to execute refunds. We realize that this is far from ideal, especially given the dedication shown by those of you who have stayed with us since launch. We are committed to repaying that loyalty, and therefore we will compensate you by adding three (3) new Creator Packs and three (3) new Radio Stations to the Ultimate Edition, which will total around 39.99 USD in added value. This solution hopefully ensures that you, as an Ultimate Edition purchaser, feel you receive fair compensation.

What is the new content added to the Ultimate Edition?
The new content that we're adding to the Ultimate Edition will be three (3) new Creator Packs and three (3) new Radio Stations, which will add up to around 39.99 USD in added value.

What is the difference between Ultimate and Premium edition?
The Premium Edition is the physical box version of the Ultimate Edition.

A full month passes with no hotfixes, and then this post- where it's implied you had already fixed the bug, but decided to roll it into a patch with other fixes, and with the decorator stuff.

It's the other way around. The Decorations Menu was ready for release and therefore added to the patch containing the homeless fix, along with the rest of the bug fixes in this patch.

View attachment 1183218

Is it just me, or is this a cim with a dog head in high-heeled sneakers flipping someone off ?

I'm 90% sure she's taking a selfie. xD

Ok, fair. Asset Editor / Importing has no estimate time, but at the time it was written back in June, it was implied that in Q3, we will have a patch of some kind. What we can't confirm back then was whether Asset Editor / Importing will be ready by then. Or how large the Q3 patch will be.

@co_avanya Was the original Q3 patch planned to be larger than v1.1.8, but then things happened and v1.1.8 came as a result?

In Upcoming patch & content we talked about 2 patches, one before the summer lock and one after. These patches were Economy 2.0 (before the summer lock) and Detailer's Patch #1 (planned for after the summer lock). But as Detailer's Patch #1 was finished before we started our vacation, it was decided to release it right away.

Will we have some flexibility when placing down these decorating assets? Or will we still have to use anarchy? Regardless I am happy that they are being added into the game. I know we have mods like find it that give the same feature, but I prefer to have these options baked into the main game. Now if we can get a prop line tool I'll be even happier.

The props all have collision based on their geometry, so you won't be able to overlap them or place them on top of/inside buildings. So it really depends on how you'd like to use them, but I personally find the collision in Cities: Skylines II much more flexible than what we had for props in the original Cities: Skylines.

Hello! Hope you all enjoyed your much-deserved breaks!

I'm trying to understand the logic of how this works ...

If the cim household couldn't previously afford to remain in their home, they would become homeless...

Subsequently ... they remained in the city because they also couldn't afford transportation out of the city ...

So ... with those two givens in mind ... when I satisfy demand for high density residential housing--which typically has higher land value (and thus higher rents) than low or medium density--how will a homeless cim or cim household be able to afford moving into this newly available housing when they couldn't previously afford to remain in the housing they already occupied and/or couldn't even afford mass transit out of the city?

Just trying to square this circle here.

Thanks for all the work you are doing! Can't wait to play with the props!

The higher the density, the more people share the rent. That means effectively a lower rent and less impact on each household when the Land Value is high.

quick follow-up ... pre-patch (post Economy 2.0) my impression was that the huge numbers of criminals was a side-effect of all the unresolved homeless cims. Is there a new mechanic being introduced to rectify this or are we assuming that, as homeless cims leave the city or find new housing and jobs, the numbers of criminals will sort itself out on its own?

Some of the saves we looked at had high crime due to the high homeless population, so things should at least improve. But we'll monitor the situation and bug reports to make sure there isn't a separate issue with crime that needs investigation.

 

[McRenken]

Hello. Great news - Thank you. Please keep in your mind too fix the hole taxi´s and the traffic-KI

 

[Civ5rako]

says who?

Everyone who is aware of the fact that those props have been in the game since day one already.

That was something which struck me the most: the attempt to hide features and items being present in the game from the player.
Sometimes you might even start thinking they intentionally tried to make the game experience as poor as they ever could.

 

[Civ5rako]

It's the other way around. The Decorations Menu was ready for release and therefore added to the patch containing the homeless fix, along with the rest of the bug fixes in this patch.

Oh wow. It is getting better and better by the minute, isn't it?

So you were in the following situation:
You had a game which still many of your customers are regarding as unfinished (objectively correct, btw) and still infested with bugs, which made and makes them rather unhappy.
Simultaneously you had something at hand which you regard as so precious that you honor it by having its own DevDiary. This something was finished and ready to release.

Yet, you simply didn't.
For two months you left your customers with some newly introduced bugs and no communication (except for the occasional "I cannot tell you anything at the moment") and it even didn't come to mind that this might have been at least a minor compensation?
No?

That is remarkable

 

[Economist_Plays]

Oh wow. It is getting better and better by the minute, isn't it?

So you were in the following situation:
You had a game which still many of your customers are regarding as unfinished (objectively correct, btw) and still infested with bugs, which made and makes them rather unhappy.
Simultaneously you had something at hand which you regard as so precious that you honor it by having its own DevDiary. This something was finished and ready to release.

Yet, you simply didn't.
For two months you left your customers with some newly introduced bugs and no communication (except for the occasional "I cannot tell you anything at the moment") and it even didn't come to mind that this might have been at least a minor compensation?
No?

That is remarkable

So the alternative would have been what?
Bringing out the patch with the decoration stuff and then having everybody complain about "why isn't the homeless bug fixed?" ...

The community is now at a point where no matter what the DEVs are doing, there will always be complains. And most of them aren't even constructive or mostly just toxic.

What about being thankfull that they do their job and still continuing to improve the game?