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Developer Corner | Support Companies

Greetings all!

Today we’ll be taking a dive into one of the fundamental building blocks of HOI4: division design, and some changes we’re making to it. This dev corner might be a little less grand than previous dev corners, but division design remains extremely important to the HOI experience, and is a part of the game that’s remained more or less untouched since release.

Those of you with exceedingly long memories may remember in my early roadmap for Hearts of Iron that I mentioned a desire to have doctrines better affect how the player is incentivized to design their divisions. The first step of making this possible is by adding another dimension of choice to support companies.

Support Company Changes
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Here’s a look at one of Germany’s starting templates. Ordinarily, engineers would grant a bonus of 5 entrenchment at their most basic level: here, we’re getting 2 (Ed: 2.25 actually… we’ll fix that in post).
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And here, in a little more detail - is the breakdown of why. Here, Engineers no longer begin by applying a flat bonus of 5 entrenchment - instead, their initial stats will grant a bonus of 0.25 entrenchment per Leg Infantry battalion in their division.
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As you can see, this bonus is not applied to the cavalry battalions I have so wisely placed in my infantry division. We’ll go into the rationale behind this specific change later, but suffice it to say the following:

Support companies can now confer multiplicative or additive bonuses to line battalions of specific categories within their own division.

While it may seem like a small change, this allows us to better represent the effects of certain doctrinal advancements or technologies, and adds a completely new dimension to consider when choosing support companies.

Changes to Existing Support Companies [very subject to change]

Engineers

As you can see above, Engineers will be changing a bit. They’ll retain the flat entrenchment they gain from tech, but by moving entrenchment more towards a per-battalion balancing value, we’re able to flatten the efficacy of entrenchment and devalue it slightly for org-wall playstyles. Entrenchment itself is a multiplicative stat of course, so we take care to ensure that the upper end does not move too far ahead of what was previously achievable.

Recon
The neglected child of the support company family is finally getting some new tools. Recon has always been an underperforming support company, and these changes aim to augment the value of tactical reconnaissance on the battlefield. By default, mounted recon, motorized recon, and armored car recon companies will now confer a [10%] soft attack bonus to all battalions matching the Artillery category.

Note: we’re making the choice to stress the benefits of recon on artillery rather than general infantry here for game balance reasons.

Light Tank recon will confer a [10%] Hard Attack bonus to all Armored battalions.

Recon also gets some other new toys, some of which we’ll cover in doctrines, and others in a later diary on some New Cool Stuff (™).

Field Hospital
A slightly left-field modifier here, Field Hospitals now increase the strength (HP) of all infantry battalions within their division by [10%]. This results in proportionally less manpower (& equipment) loss per damage received.

Flame Tanks
These now increase the breakthrough of all infantry battalions by [5%].

Military Police
A support company with low usage outside of specific garrison templates, we wanted to give these slightly more utility within line divisions. These will now increase the base org recovery rate of all infantry battalions by 20%.

Doctrine Changes

We’re still working on exactly how these will look, but here’s a sample of what we have planned:
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Dispersed Support: Signal companies grant 10% defense to all Artillery battalions in division
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Airland Battle: Standard recon grants 10% air attack to anti-air battalions in division
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Mechanized Wave: Armored Car recon grants 1 max organization to all Leg Infantry battalions in division.
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Central Planning: Logistics Company adds 5% defense to all infantry battalions in division

As mentioned above we have more planned for these, but this should serve as an indicative sample of what is coming. These changes are intended to add an extra dimension to consider when building division templates, accentuating the value of interdisciplinary coordination. They also give us an opportunity to equalize the value of some underperforming support companies in a slightly more realistic way than flat stats.

Of course, the production value of your bonus-granting support companies will be weighted more favorably towards larger divisions - this is something we’re keeping an eye on, but broadly speaking we’re happy with this direction.

As well as being a significant balance change (and modding tool) these changes were necessary for a new small feature we’ll show off in a future diary. I’ll leave you guessing until then ;)

Speaking of dev diaries, we will call you to arms next week for something special… stay tuned, and save the date!

/Arheo
 
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Yeah, really missing heavy and super-heavy tanks as support companies too. It's hard to imagine certain heavy weaponry being used in line battalions, and railway gun mechanics isn't particularly suitable for inter-divisional fights (and its AoE of 217km is already too bloated to be honest).

Railway guns require a certain suspension of disbelief, ye,. but we won't be changing those. I agree on SH tanks and to an extent heavy tanks - we've already made SH tanks a support company internally, and I'm considering heavies too.
 
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Railway guns require a certain suspension of disbelief, ye,. but we won't be changing those. I agree on SH tanks and to an extent heavy tanks - we've already made SH tanks a support company internally, and I'm considering heavies too.
I hope this will also lead to the finally AI using (super)-heavy tanks at all - no need to make each AI using them always, but at least the nation historically having used them/experiemented with them should do (and that currently isn't happening in the game for nations under AI control)
 
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Railway guns require a certain suspension of disbelief, ye,. but we won't be changing those. I agree on SH tanks and to an extent heavy tanks - we've already made SH tanks a support company internally, and I'm considering heavies too.
I think this would need a tweak to the armor mechanics - moving towards just average rather than weighted average, and a boost to armor stats across the board
 
Railway guns require a certain suspension of disbelief, ye,. but we won't be changing those. I agree on SH tanks and to an extent heavy tanks - we've already made SH tanks a support company internally, and I'm considering heavies too.
Can we get some buffs to heavy tanks as a whole? They aren't useless but compared to mediums they aren't as worth building
The meta medium tank is only 2-3 more IC than just the basic heavy chassis, and even in MP (outside of france and some ussr stuff afaik) people don't really build them, and they can just get pierced by mediums anyway, so that's no longer a niche they have
 
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Can we get some buffs to heavy tanks as a whole? They aren't useless but compared to mediums they aren't as worth building
The meta medium tank is only 2-3 more IC than just the basic heavy chassis, and even in MP (outside of france and some ussr stuff afaik) people don't really build them, and they can just get pierced by mediums anyway, so that's no longer a niche they have
Heavy tanks are fine, they concentrate stats well
 
Yes, that's why i said they aren't "useless", but i'd rather have 50 mediums as the soviets, than 30 heavies
Outside of heavy tank france,I haven't seen heavies in the last 5-10 mp games i've played

Which is historically fine. I much prefer a ww2 of T-34's, Sherman, Panzer 4's instead of a ahistorical heavy-tanks everywhere meta.
 
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The thing with adding a Heavy/Super Heavy Tank Support Company is while an improvement over the unrealistic Heavy/Super Heavy Tank Divisions, it's still doesn't accurately reflect how they were used in the war. They were basically independent units (with some small support elements like AA vehicles and recovery vehicles) which were attached to other units where and when needed. They weren't permanently part of a particular Division. They were in too short supply and too impractical to be used as full size Divisions.
 
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The thing with adding a Heavy/Super Heavy Tank Support Company is while an improvement over the unrealistic Heavy/Super Heavy Tank Divisions, it's still doesn't accurately reflect how they were used in the war. They were basically independent units which were attached to other units where and when needed. They weren't permanently part of a particular Division.
I don't think we need exact accuracy, it's a game after all. You can just have special divisions with heavy tank support companies placed in certain areas of the frontline ready to engage when needed.
 
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Yes, that's why i said they aren't "useless", but i'd rather have 50 mediums as the soviets, than 30 heavies
Outside of heavy tank france,I haven't seen heavies in the last 5-10 mp games i've played
Soviets do entrenchment heavy tds sometimes.

I do think their worth would be best expressed by changing up the armor calc. If having 1 improved heavy battalion didnt magically shield your other armorless tanks then it would be more attractive
 
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The thing with adding a Heavy/Super Heavy Tank Support Company is while an improvement over the unrealistic Heavy/Super Heavy Tank Divisions, it's still doesn't accurately reflect how they were used in the war. They were basically independent units which were attached to other units where and when needed. They weren't permanently part of a particular Division.

You’re not wrong. While Heavy/Super Heavy Tank support companies would be a move in the right direction, I remember there was talk of army level assets around the time of No Step Back’s release. That would seem like a more elegant solution to the problem of niche equipment. I understand why the feature was dropped, but I’m curious if the idea is still being kicked around.
 
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Have you considered allowing 10 support companies instead of 5? This would be more realistic, since a real-life division would have most, if not all, types of support.
While I agree that it would make it easier to make some historical units so would it remove the choice and need to prioritise what you want. A key aspect of games like this is that you can't have everything as then there is no more choices to make.
 
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While I agree that it would make it easier to make some historical units so would it remove the choice and need to prioritise what you want. A key aspect of games like this is that you can't have everything as then there is no more choices to make.
That is why I proposed the battalion / company / platoon system. Not all supporting units were battalions. Let's say you can have 2 support battalions, 3 support companies and 5 support platoons. Again my theory is: a battalion is 100% effective, a company is 50% effective and a platoon is 25% effective from standard stats. And depending on what you think is more priority, you assign to the battalion.
 
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That is why I proposed the battalion / company / platoon system. Not all supporting units were battalions. Let's say you can have 2 support battalions, 3 support companies and 5 support platoons. Again my theory is: a battalion is 100% effective, a company is 50% effective and a platoon is 25% effective from standard stats. And depending on what you think is more priority, you assign to the battalion.
That's a good idea. It would allow more realistic units as well. Being able to customize the size of the units would be a cool feature. Default could remain Company size but you could make it slightly bigger or slightly smaller.

It would be nice if they added (at least a visual indication even if it doesn't do anything) of Regiments and Brigades to the Division screen.
 
Railway guns require a certain suspension of disbelief, ye,. but we won't be changing those. I agree on SH tanks and to an extent heavy tanks - we've already made SH tanks a support company internally, and I'm considering heavies too.
Railway guns work reasonably well as currently represented if one imagines them to be railway gun units like German batteries, Polish divisions or French regiments instead of the massive one piece mad experiments done in Germany.
Also would that mean changing SH and HV tanks to only be support companies or just making them available to be added as such? Iy would be rather weird to have HV be just a support company considering how they were used OTL. It would have been easier if instead of the tank companies being separated by weight class (light, medium etc) they would be divided purely by roles they would play. Current system leads to weird situations like BT tanks being "light tanks" but Panzer IIIs being "medium tanks" despite both having reasonably similar size, weight, the exact same role and also both being derived from Christie tanks. More to the point of heavies Panther tanks were considered at the time and most certainly should today be thought of as heavies but they were placed in Medium Tank Companies because they were supposed to be used as such. A number of countries also created Heavy Tank Battalions (Mainly Soviets and Germany) which would fit better as a frontline unit.

Since it is already touched upon maybe further changes would be better. The air setup had some similar issues and the rework disposed of predetermined class and stats by making the airframe mostly about size while the role of the plane is defined purely by its armament and few stats are inherent to the frame. The mechanic to select a role for a tank is already there too and could be used to select which battalions would use that design. It could work something like this:

Small Chassis (Mostly 2 men tanks or small 3 men tanks)
Medium Chassis
Large Chassis (pre ww2 this would be for the then superheavy French or Russian tanks later for)

Roles:
Light Tank
Small or medium chassis
Will be used in Light Battalions or Recon Companies
+Speed
+Org (easier to manoeuvre around battle aiding in its support task it would also encourage creating mixed divisions like IRL)
+Suppression

Breakthrough Tank
Any chassis
Will be used in Medium Battalions
+Speed
+Breakthrough
+Light attack
+Hard Attack

Mainline / Universal Tank
Medium or Large Chassis
Will be used in Medium Battalions
+Armour
(higher bonuses than Breakthrough Tank)
+Breakthrough
+Light attack
+Hard Attack

Infantry Support Tank (Often those were independent of divisions but with no corps system abstracting them to smaller units attached to every division would work)
Any chassis
Will be used in Tank Support Battalions / Companies
-Speed
+Breakthrough
++Light attack
+Hard attack

Support Tankette
Only small chassis
Will be used in Light Battalions or Recon Companies
Turret limited to 1 man or light superstructure
Limits amount of armour upgrades
Limits amount of engine upgrades
Limits number of special modules to 2
--Production Cost
--Armour
--Breakthrough
-light attack (attack debuffs represent lack of space for bigger guns and space for ammunition)
-heavy attack

Heavy Tank
Medium or large chassis
Will be used in Heavy Tank Battalions or Heavy Tank Support Company
+Production cost
++Armour
++Hard attack
+Piercing
+Light attack
+Breakthrough
-Reliability

Assault Gun (also a good moment to ask to split superstructures into open topped and enclosed)
Any chassis
Will be used in Assault Gun battalions or Assault Gun Support Companies
Requires support gun/howitzer or (basic) cannon
++Light attack
+Hard attack
+Piercing
+Breakthrough
+defense
-Speed

Then the TD SPG SPAA Flame Amphibious.
 
Assault Gun (also a good moment to ask to split superstructures into open topped and enclosed)
Any chassis
Will be used in Assault Gun battalions or Assault Gun Support Companies
Requires support gun/howitzer or (basic) cannon
++Light attack
+Hard attack
+Piercing
+Breakthrough
+defense
-Speed
Assault guns would be fantastic to add to the game
 
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While I agree that it would make it easier to make some historical units so would it remove the choice and need to prioritise what you want. A key aspect of games like this is that you can't have everything as then there is no more choices to make.
Personally, having ten slots for support companies seems to me to offer more choice than limiting to an arbitrary five. There is no realistic or game reason for only five. The main limiting factor of giving divisions more support was production capability versus the threat/problem they were trying to overcome. The number of support units rarely seemed to be a part of the calculation.

Again, this is just personal opinion, but I like the feeling that as the war progresses that I can upgrade my divisions with additional support units. I long ago grew tired of building simple divisions and forgetting about them. Allowing the player to use ALL the support companies puts some reasoning behind making all the support companies viable, which is something the developers seem to be working on now. I am very eager to see how support companies shake out in the new DLC.
 
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