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Developer Diary | Norway Alt History!

Hej everyone, it’s me, Carlo! Katten has been staring at me from the other side of the office all morning, which can only mean one thing: it’s time for me to write another Dev Diary! Now, I’ve already talked about Historical Norway, the Joint Focus Tree, and modding stuff so there’s only one more thing I could write about, and that’s our favorite kamerat, LevTrotskij.

Known outside of Norway as Leon Trotsky, he was one of the most prominent members of the bolsheviks in the Soviet Union, renowned marxist theorist, known for his permanent revolution, and even more permanent exile. He was Lenin’s successor apparent, but Stanlin’s political maneuvering forced him out of the government and eventually out of the Soviet Union. After that, he was allowed to move to Norway, with the newspaper editor, Konrad Knudsen. So far so good.

01. Trotsky advisor.png

The important thing for us happens in an August much like this one, in 1936, when Quisling’s thugs ransacked Knudsen’s house, and would’ve gotten away with it if it wasn’t because Knudsen’s daughter drove them off. So much for the tolerant left, smh. This event will be represented in AAT’s Norway, regardless of the path you take, and it’s the start of trotskij’s event chain.

02. Trotsky’s place ransacked event.png

Historically, the pressure from fascists and stalinists was too much for the Nygaardsvold Cabinet, so he was put under house arrest in a farm in Hurum, which, by his own account, was one of the worst periods of his life. After that he was allowed into Mexico, and received by the artist Frida Kahlo and her husband Diego Rivera. And then they lived happily ever after. Though he was, indeed, kicked out when Diego Rivera found out he was having an affair with Frida Kahlo and then was killed with an ice pick by a Soviet Union agent. Other than that he had a good time in Mexico by all accounts.

03. Trotsky arrives to Mexico event.png

Of course, you don’t need to care about what happened historically. You can just imprison him, or send him to Mexico right away and use this altercation as a justification for increasing political repression, send him straight to Stalin, and even put him in government. Those last two are especially useful if you’re going the communist route by the way.

Communist Route?... Oh, right, that’s what I was supposed to write about, Alt History content for Norway! Since I already wrote about Trotskij’s fate, let me tell you about the options you have for
turning Norway even redder.

04. Norway Communist Branch.png

First step, the labor movement needs to regain its momentum, with the ‘A Resurgent Labor Movement’ focus. This will set Norway on to the path of Communism, but which one? You can compromise with the NKP to adopt their Stalinist stance or prosecute them and let the Labor Party embrace Trotskij’s teachings, and if you kept him in Norway you’ll also have him as an advisor and general.

05a. Compromise with the NKP.png

05b. Prosecute the NKP.png

Each path has advantages and disadvantages: you can be beholden to the Soviet Union and their support, or you can go your own path and bring the Permanent Revolution to the rest of the world.

Regardless of your communist goals, you will need to rouse the proletariat in states that are industrialized enough, and when you’re ready you can trigger the communist revolution and fight in a civil war against the old Norway! Now of course, riling up the workers has its cost, because they’ll do some heavy damage to your factories and infrastructure once they rise up for the revolution.

06. Rouse The Proletariat Decisions.png


Let’s take a better look at the ‘Rouse the Proletariat Decisions’. The first level will grant you the state once the civil war starts, but will leave your buildings in a pretty rough shape.

07. Rouse the Proletariat 1.png

You can reduce this damage by bringing it to Level 2 and you will also be granted 2 irregular divisions.

08. Rouse the Proletariat 2.png

Then if you’re really serious about that state you can fully rouse its working class, reducing the damage to the buildings and upgrading those troops to Militias.

09. Rouse the Proletariat 3.png

And before you think “But Carlo, what if I just rouse the whole country and I skip the civil war?”, I’ll tell you now, that won’t work. You will have to choose carefully how to approach these decisions, as you can’t go over 20 Total Support for the Revolution and no matter what, the other side will have Oslo.

Ok now, let’s go over the things you’ll be able to do once you’ve seized the means of production in Norway. If your senpai Stalin noticed you, there will be plenty of improvements to your industrial base, manpower and a close collaboration with the Soviet Union, and even help them invade Finland. Maybe the Arms Against Tyranny thing is just aspirational.

10. War in Finland Tooltip.png

If instead, you decided to go with uncle trotskij, as I said before, you’ll get an extra advisor and general, and that will put you behind the wheel of your very own communist faction, the Norintern with the focus ‘The Permanentest Revolution’. That’s what it’s actually called, and nobody has complained about it so I guess the name is final? Defend Finland, bring the war to Stalin, Sweden, Norway and even Hitler, bringing about a new, Trotskyist world order.

11.Permanentest Revolution Tooltip.png

To summarize, with Stalin you’ll get soldiers and industry. With Trotsky you’ll get easy wargoals and offensive bonuses. Your pick.

Now let’s move slightly to the right. To the allied democratic branch, which starts with a fictional Vote of No confidence that the Nygaardsvold government loses. This branch is what happens when militaristic industry tycoons take control of the government. It overlaps somewhat with the democratic branch, except you can skip the whole Broken Gun thing and go straight for rearmament, so you’ll have more time to get ready for what’s coming, but at the cost of a lot of civilian industry.

12. Alt Dem branch.png


This path leads to a more centralized government, so all the local preparations are pooled together, letting you start nation-wide initiatives, both during peacetime and war time.

13a. Military Preparedness Decisions.png

13b. Military Preparedness Decisions 2.png
13c. Military Preparedness Decisions 3.png


It also overlaps a little with the Trotskyist path, just not the commie parts, and you’ll be able to join the allies instead of forming your own faction.

14. Prepare for war and Join The Allies.png

Let’s keep going, I have actual work to do, so I’m gonna skip the historical path. A few things have changed, but not enough to care, and the dog is still there so onwards to the fascist path, which, of course there is one.

15 Fascist Path.png


It starts with The Stumbling Storting, in this reality the labor party fails to secure political stability for Norway, leaving the door open to fascists, and other undesirables.

16. Stumbling Storting event.png

Let’s go with Undesirable Elements #1, fascists. In this scenario Quisling is somewhat good at making people think he’s competent and that fascism is reasonable. The Nasjonal Samling will lurk in the shadows and build support for their agenda state by state, seeking support from the Fatherland League (A proto-fascist nationalist movement), industrialists, conservatives and even fascists abroad.

17. Lurk in the Shadows Decisions.png


Eventually, you’ll reach a familiar focus, ‘Quisling’s Coup’, except this time, you’re ready for it, you have built the support needed to make the takeover as easy as possible for you and the foreign fascist invaders, whom you invited! Yes, in this path you can invite the most suitable fascist regime to invade Norway so you can take over the government and help them on their fascist crusade. Don’t worry if they say no, that rejection will also allow you to start the coup without them, who needs Hitler anyway.

18. Nasjonal Samling Focus.png

The coup, as expected, will trigger a civil war in which, unlike the communist one, you’ll only control Oslofjord. That’s alright though, you prepared for this, which means that you can take over states where you built support in. If you only prepared base level support, you’ll get the state, not too shabby! But if you built more support, you will be rewarded for your efforts with a brand new Military Factory, and maybe even a couple of militias too if you fully prepared it.

19. Deploy Prep Decisions.png

This should put you on the right footing to start your fascist campaign, have fun making the world a worse place! Eventually, you’ll make it to your outlandish viking theme claims around the North Atlantic. Classic.

20. Old Vinland Tooltip.png

Now onto the last branch: The monarchist branch. For some reason a lot of people who want nordic focus trees also want a monarchist path, I can understand why, but I still think they’re wrong. I still made a monarchist path for Norway, whose king was reluctant to become their king, and even when he took over, by all accounts had no intention of becoming anything more than a figurehead.

21. Monarchist Branch.png


This reality starts much like the fascist one, with the Storting devolving into chaos, and the Royal Chamberlain, Anker Peder Wedel-Jarlsberg uses this opportunity to build support for a more involved monarchy, with his steady hand at the helm of course. Obviously, he is not part of the real Wedel-Jarlsberg noble family that lives in Norway, any similarities are purely coincidental, etc. He’s not Wedel-Jarlsberg with a ‘-’, his is a minus symbol. Just do me a favor and don’t tell the legal team, they don’t need to stress about it.

22. Anker Peder Wedel-Jarlsberg.png

Peder Anker will travel all around Norway proselytizing his monarchist cause, giving you bonuses for building defensive buildings, and adding more building slots, which will of course reduce the available manpower in the state, because, you know, they’re all busy being monarchists so they don’t have time to be soldiers.

23. Build Support for Monarchism Decisions.png

Except… If you go all the way with your monarchism you get 2 free militia divisions, and once you get the power as the Regent of Norway you can edit to your heart’s content. They’ve been so converted that they are now soldiers for monarchism.

24. Royal Militias.png

Once the Absolutist Regency is the rule of the land you’ll recruit the crown prince, Olav to join either the Navy or Army staff, since he was indeed employed in both during the war. In this case you’ll probably want him dedicating all his efforts on one thing, so he can become either a General or an Admiral and will allow you to specialize your country further.

25a. Olav to Army Staff.png
25b. Olav to Navy Staff.png


And of course you can get an extra set of outlandish claims. Faroe Islands, Iceland, Greenland, part of Russia, and even part of Sweden. At the end you’ll be able to consolidate your kingdom to make it easier for Peder Anker to rule over his king’s land.

26. Claims on Faroe Islands.png

And well that’s it. Obviously there’s tons more to unearth if you ask the right questions ;) and many more things I’ll either keep as a secret for release or haven’t implemented yet, like the new Trotskij portrait and the [Redacted] of [Redacted]. Also, don’t forget to stay tuned for the Sweden alt history Dev Diary, where you’ll see how wildly different the world would be if Sweden had privately managed vacation instead of state managed ones.
 
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Okay, this pedantics debate aside, any words about other DLCs focus tree that are going to be reworked for 1.13?
 
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Okay, this pedantics debate aside, any words about other DLCs focus tree that are going to be reworked for 1.13?
I doubt that we will see any bigger rework of any tree except the four this DLC is about (plus maybe something around Iceland). Very likely many other focus trees will see smaller changes because of the new features, but that is something different then e.g. the rework Italy say in BBA.
 
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I think Hirohito is only the leader of Japan because there were so many prime ministers in the period
Considering that Historical Finland will be getting 5 PMs this dlc, and that only 2-3 PMs mattered for Japan, i think they're due for a change.

I love that there is a paradox dev that is sick of the constant and forced monarchist paths, but Haakon VII is one of those monarchs whom i feel should be a leader considering how proactive he was. But considering the monarchist focuses include warmonger, it does make sense that he isnt the leader. Props
Can be managed by a trait. Permanent unremovable war support debuff (not Mosley's removable ones), attack and defense bonus on core territories, and maybe some more stuffs.
 
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Okay, i didn't want to partake in this meaningless ideological debate.

Another question for the devs:

If Trotsky is not hired and NKP is prosecuted (turning Norway into just a socialist country, i presume), would the focus "Send the King back to Denmark" would be changed?

Haakon VII being a figurehead monarch for a socialist government is already happened in 1928, when he refused to intervene against the Socialist's victory in the election and letting them to form a government. So i hope that the fact would be acknowledged here by an event or a "completion_reward" change, making him still resided here albeit with a smaller bonus.

But if the narrative presented is that the civil war is inevitable and the king refuses to partake in it, resulting him being exiled to Denmark, then so be it.
 
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The problem is that even if the oil were to be discovered, the offshore oil industry was just starting to build rigs within few kilometers of coast after ww2. The Norwegian North Sea oil fields are located about 100km from the coast. The technology to extract it just didn't exist in the 40s.
It should be implemented into the game and left as a choice to the player.

If you play Germany you have the option of research nuclear weapons and getting them even though it was impossible for Germany to do so yet the game leaves it in there as an option to each player. The same should be for oil fields in Norway. If realism was the only consideration then the option for nuclear weapons shouldn't be available to Nazi Germany as Germany was never going to get them. The same argument you make, can be made for nuclear weapons.
It should be implemented by Paradox as I don't think player mods would be as good as Paradox when implementing the oil fields into the game. The game does end in 1950 as well. It would be interesting to see how Norwegian oil fields could change things for Germany. The game allows you to explore alternate history scenarios. Oil fields in Norway before and during WW2 would be a great alternative history scenario.

I think its safe to say that Nukes for Nazi Germany is way more unrealistic than offshore oil fields. If realism is the only concern then most countries, other than America, shouldn't be able to pursue Nukes before and during WW2 in game. Realism isn't the only consideration.

Realism has never stopped Paradox from implementing stuff in the past. Oil fields in Norway should be left as a choice for each player. It would also make the game more interesting and fun.
 
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I think by modern standards they would depict them all, the Japanese tree and content was just kind of lackluster even on release.
I think HoI4's character system could now accommodate all 13 Japanese Prime Ministers from 1/1/1936 to 31/12/1945 but it would still be a little cumbersome. Perhaps skip four or so who were in power for less than 141 days? That's barely two focuses long

Or, make the War Minister the country leader. IIRC the role always went to an army officer, but it could tie nicely into the inter service rivalry mechanic by allowing army or navy heads to assume the role depending on the balance of power.
 
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It should be implemented into the game and left as a choice to the player.

If you play Germany you have the option of research nuclear weapons and getting them even though it was impossible for Germany to do so yet the game leaves it in there as an option to each player. The same should be for oil fields in Norway. If realism was the only consideration then the option for nuclear weapons shouldn't be available to Nazi Germany as Germany was never going to get them. The same argument you make, can be made for nuclear weapons.
It should be implemented by Paradox as I don't think player mods would be as good as Paradox when implementing the oil fields into the game. The game does end in 1950 as well. It would be interesting to see how Norwegian oil fields could change things for Germany. The game allows you to explore alternate history scenarios. Oil fields in Norway before and during WW2 would be a great alternative history scenario.

I think its safe to say that Nukes for Nazi Germany is way more unrealistic than offshore oil fields. If realism is the only concern then most countries, other than America, shouldn't be able to pursue Nukes before and during WW2 in game. Realism isn't the only consideration.

Realism has never stopped Paradox from implementing stuff in the past. Oil fields in Norway should be left as a choice for each player. It would also make the game more interesting and fun.
I have to agree with you - not because it was unlikely for Germany to ever have nuclear weapons, but because of Norway some time making use of those resources.
 
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It should be implemented into the game and left as a choice to the player.

If you play Germany you have the option of research nuclear weapons and getting them even though it was impossible for Germany to do so yet the game leaves it in there as an option to each player. The same should be for oil fields in Norway. If realism was the only consideration then the option for nuclear weapons shouldn't be available to Nazi Germany as Germany was never going to get them. The same argument you make, can be made for nuclear weapons.
It should be implemented by Paradox as I don't think player mods would be as good as Paradox when implementing the oil fields into the game. The game does end in 1950 as well. It would be interesting to see how Norwegian oil fields could change things for Germany. The game allows you to explore alternate history scenarios. Oil fields in Norway before and during WW2 would be a great alternative history scenario.

I think its safe to say that Nukes for Nazi Germany is way more unrealistic than offshore oil fields. If realism is the only concern then most countries, other than America, shouldn't be able to pursue Nukes before and during WW2 in game. Realism isn't the only consideration.

Realism has never stopped Paradox from implementing stuff in the past. Oil fields in Norway should be left as a choice for each player. It would also make the game more interesting and fun.
Maybe if you get Excavation V and have enough CFs for it you could do it.
 
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Maybe if you get Excavation V and have enough CFs for it you could do it.
Ok, but then since AAT is about resources reshuffling, if we are to add resources found in the 1950s in this game, let's also include Algerian and Syrian oil fields. They are land based, so easier to access.

Also in Lybia: a French geologist had already predicted Fezzan, in the West, to have oil: this is not included in the game. While the Sirte Basin reserves are only accessible through an Italian focus, if I'm not wrong. Again, another French geologists team had anticipated vast reserves in that location, while Italian doubted it. Then the Seven Sisters may have played a shady role, eliminating some competition until after the war the place was free to go.
 
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The problem is that even if the oil were to be discovered, the offshore oil industry was just starting to build rigs within few kilometers of coast after ww2. The Norwegian North Sea oil fields are located about 100km from the coast. The technology to extract it just didn't exist in the 40s.
Diving deep enough to do the neccessary work at the bottom of the ocean was also incredibly difficult and dangerous in the 70s. I don't know what diving technology was like in the 40s, but I have a feeling it would've been impossible to pull off.

Since people are saying "but what about German nukes"... nuclear bombs were kind of a bigger deal in WWII than hypothetical North Sea oil fields. It's kind of a player expectation that there should be a nuclear arms race between the Allies and Germany. I'm fine with that, AI Germany never seems to get themselves nukes anyway.

So, you are implying that communism is not "extremely evil" and you only have a slight problem with "a few assholes" like Stalin and Trotsky?
Communism is the desire for a classless, stateless, moneyless society. While you can say that's an unattainable goal, there's no inherent violence there. Fascism is inherently about a society defined by, among other points, authoritarianism and censorship, cronyism, and scapegoating and persecution of minorities. Do you see a slight difference?

If you're trying to "both sides" fascism and communism because people who happened to identify as the latter have done horrible things, then you might as well say democracy is a horribly evil system because countries that happened to be democratic have done terrible things throughout history. "I'll never support democracy and elections, look what America did to Viet Nam!".
 
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Diving that deep was also incredibly difficult and dangerous in the 70s. I don't know what diving technology was like in the 40s, but I have a feeling it would've been impossible to pull off.
I think Cousteau kicked that activity in 1954. Before that there were heavy diving suits, allowing salvaging ships in shallow waters but definitely not allowing work for pumping oil deeper in the sea.
 
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You never cease to learn with this game... :D
Shallow waters oil drilling started in the 1930s. The first platform rigs were built in the 1950s, for waters as deep as 30 meters.

As of 1958, Norway officials still dismissed the chances of finding oil off the Norwegian coastline. The industry started finding oil in the 1960s (by foreign companies). But as I understand, all fields there are 100+ meters deep and/or over 50 km from the coast. It's definitely a far stretch with the resources you have in the game: the most difficult to extract in HOI4 are Derna fields in Romania, needing Excavation IV.




Edit: Derna fields aren't the most tricky ones. West Raman & Az Zubair & Nahr Umr (Iraq), Ghawar (Saudi Arabia), Burgan (Koweit), Abu Dhabi & Matzen (Austria) all need Excavation V.
 
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Does Trotsky now appear in more countries than Dolfy? Either way, those 2 know how to get around...
USSR, Mexico, Norway vs. Germany, Argentina, USA, Greece (on the Byzantine path) is my count. Unless you know of one or two I'm missing on either side?

Also, re: the "can Mexico force Norway to send Trotsky over" question; if you set Norway to force historical path, will they be guaranteed to take the option that sends Trotsky over in that event? If so, that would be an elegant solution IMO.
 
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