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Economy 2.0 Dev Diary #1

Hello again! We are back with another development diary. This time we look at the economy re-work or as we like to call it “Economy 2.0” set to release within the upcoming two weeks. You’ve shared a lot of great feedback with us, from bringing bugs to our attention to sharing how you feel while playing the game. As we went through your feedback, it became clear that certain systems, particularly the economic simulation, weren’t transparent enough and didn’t allow you enough control over your city. We felt this was important to improve, so for the past few months, we have overhauled several systems based on your feedback.

Before we get into the nitty-gritty of these changes, we want to thank you for the detailed and constructive feedback you shared. It really helped us understand what issues you experienced, what information you lacked, and how we could improve things. We look forward to hearing your feedback following these changes so we can continue to work on improving Cities: Skylines II and make it the best it possibly can be.

Alright, let’s get to it! Our goal with Economy 2.0 was to make the systems more straightforward and responsive, so you can make more meaningful choices and have more control over the various gameplay aspects. This means fewer safeguards and automated systems that work invisibly under the surface and an increased level of challenge. We still aim for the game to be playable without paying too much attention to where and how money and resources flow in the city so new players have a chance to succeed, while still leaving room for experienced players to benefit from optimizing their city. We’ll get into the details below but to give you a quick overview here are the major changes of Economy 2.0:

  • Government Subsidies have been removed to make the economy more challenging and transparent
  • Importing City Services from Outside Connections now has a toggle and a fee
  • City Service Upkeep costs have been increased
  • Calculations for Demand have been improved
  • New calculations for rent and household spending allow citizens to afford to live in Low Density Residential
  • The production chain has been rebalanced to bring tax income to a more reasonable level


THE ECONOMY
A key point in the feedback we received was that the game didn’t challenge many of you when it comes to managing the city’s finances. Striking the right balance is hard. We want new players to be able to dive into the game while still providing players from Cities: Skylines or long-term fans of the city-building genre a challenge. We introduced Government Subsidies in Cities: Skylines II to act as a helping hand as your city got established, allowing them to scale with expenses. But they also removed agency and consequences from the game. Why build a city with a well-balanced economy if the government will cover all the expenses of your Utopia?

We considered several approaches to Government Subsidies but in the end, we decided to completely remove them from the city budget. This puts you in full control of your city’s finances and gives you a reason to consider what you spend your money on and when. It will be up to you to create a profitable city, and when you succeed, you get to take all the credit. If you struggle to get the hang of it, the in-game tutorials are there to help you out and the tips can always be accessed through the Advisor (the question mark in the top-right corner of the screen). And of course, you can always ask us or your fellow players for help.

MONEY
Money makes the world, or in this case the city, go round. In Cities: Skylines II, money circulates both within the city and in and out of the simulation through money sources and sinks. We work with 4 entities in Cities: Skylines II:
  • You, the player/the city
  • Households
  • Companies
  • Abstracted investors

Each of these has ways they can gain or lose money, some of which are preset and automatic, some of which are within your control. Below we have a quick overview of these to give you a sense of how money flows in your city, and how you can affect it.

Money.png


CITY SERVICES
As you can see, City Service construction and upkeep, along with roads of course, are where most (if not all) of your money goes. In Economy 2.0 we’ve rebalanced the costs of City Services which includes a significant increase in the upkeep costs. Our goal here is to give your choices more meaning as your city grows. Is your city’s economy strong enough to afford a University or will you have to increase taxes to pay for it? Can you afford to improve the city’s mail service to make citizens happy or will that have to wait until your economy is more stable? These are the kinds of questions we hope you will be asking yourself as you play with the update.

But services aren’t just available locally in your city. Your neighbors can provide you with garbage trucks or ambulances from Outside Connections if your city isn’t quite able to provide those for your citizens yet. With our initial design, the only cost of importing services (excluding Electricity and Water and Sewage) was the time it took the service vehicles to arrive and perform the needed tasks. Economy 2.0 changes that by adding a fee for importing services, which scales with the city’s population.

Now, we can’t add a fee and not give you a way to avoid it, so we have added a new City Policy called Import City Services. It works as a toggle: When it’s enabled your city can and will import services that are lacking in your city, and when it’s disabled, which is the default, your city relies on what’s available locally. In its current form, it’s an all-or-nothing toggle, but we are considering expanding the service import to give you more control. What do you think, any particular direction you would like us to take? We’d love to hear your thoughts.

CityPolicy.png

City Policies can be found by clicking the City Information button next to the demand bars


LIFE IN THE CITY
While we call this systems rework “Economy 2.0” it affects more than just the economic simulation. To complement both the changes to the financial side of the game and the improvements to the Land Value system in patch 1.1.0f1, we’ve made improvements to Demand, Rent, Education, and Citizen Happiness. These changes affect your citizens’ lives, and how and where they choose to live.

DEMAND
Most noticeable are the changes to how Demand is calculated, allowing it to be more responsive and more accurately reflect the state of the city at any given time. Residential demand has been expanded so the desired density is tied to the size and wealth of households. On average low density residential is the most expensive type of housing as a single household is responsible for the building’s expenses (paying Rent and Upkeep), while residents in medium and high density can split the costs. When wealthier households move into the city, the demand for low density increases, and when citizens with lower wealth, such as students, want to move in, the demand for high density goes up. Similarly, families will want more space, preferring low or medium density homes, while singles are perfectly happy with the smaller homes found in high density apartment complexes.

The type of households that spawn are determined by the average citizen happiness, homelessness in the city, the residential tax rates, available education spots, and open job positions.

Turning our attention to commercial demand, it’s now more closely tied to what households need. The more households consume, the more demand for commercial zones you’ll see. We’ve tweaked the household need for shopping, forcing them to pay rent and consider the garbage fee before going shopping. Furthermore, we have also tied the types of companies that can inhabit commercial buildings more closely to the products citizens consume. This means you’re less likely to see a bunch of the same companies spawn as the simulation seeks to provide a more varied selection of products for your citizens.

Both office and industry demand have been adjusted to a more reasonable level to match the other zone types, and their interactions with commercial have been strengthened, so you can produce what your shops need locally. Additionally, industry now has more workplaces so you can satisfy the demand more easily.

EDUCATION AND WORK
We’ve made tweaks to education before, particularly to encourage more teens to go to high school, but we didn’t quite reach our goals, so Economy 2.0 includes further improvements to the education system. Children always go to elementary school if the city has one with available student spots, while teens have a high chance of going to high school. Some will still choose to work, especially if no school is available, but you should see more teens in high school. We’ve also improved the chance they graduate from both elementary and high school, and for those adults who didn’t get their high school diploma, there is now a chance, albeit low, to apply to a high school with available student spots so that they can graduate.

Teens and adults can both join the workforce if there are suitable jobs for them. However, if they have health problems, such as being sick or injured, they don’t count as employable citizens and will need to recover before they can work. They may find work in the city, if any job positions with their skill level or lower are available, or they may resort to finding work in a neighboring city, though working in Outside Connections is less desirable with this rework.

If they cannot find work, they become unemployed and receive unemployment from the government. However, this option is only available for a limited time, so if you don’t provide them with suitable jobs, they will eventually have no other option than to leave the city as they cannot pay their rent.


BUILDING A BUSINESS
Your city consists of more than just citizens though, many businesses make it their home too, and demand isn’t the only thing we tweaked for commercial, industry, and office. Let’s take a look at what else has changed, starting with production. You already know the basics: One or more input resources are processed and turned into a more refined product, which requires both workers and time. Higher education level workers do this more efficiently (they work smarter, not harder), and each product has a certain amount of work needed to produce one unit. Previously, the game calculated the amount of work needed at the start of the game, but we have changed that to a preconfigured amount to make the game more predictable and allow us to finetune things. Additionally, we have adjusted the amount of work needed to produce a single unit for all products reducing the overall production, which in turn reduces the company profits, and by extension, the amount of tax you can collect from them.

But that’s not all. The price of resources has been adjusted as well as how it’s calculated. It now has two parts: A discounted price paid by industrial companies when they purchase materials for their production, and a normal price for commercial companies to purchase the goods. The two prices are then combined into one as they’re sold to consumers, allowing everyone to profit (hopefully, at least) from the sales. But don’t worry about the consumers, we have also increased the wages companies pay so the citizens can afford both their homes and the resources they need.

Alright, that was a lot of information! With that, we’ll end today’s dev diary, but don’t miss part 2 coming next week where we look at Rent, Building Upgrades, and what happens to existing cities. In the meantime, we’d love to hear your thoughts on what’s to come. Any changes you’re particularly excited about? Any that leave you with questions? Let us know in the comments below.
 
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Any chance you can make the subsidies an option when starting the game?

Besides that, this stuff looks good. We like positive communication explaining whats happening.
CS1 had a hard and easy option. I still don’t understand why CS2 couldn’t have the same. Ironically, “hard” mode in CS1 was itself quite easy. The game should be challenging for long-time fans of city-builders, but it ought to be accessible for new players. Let’s hope the changes they’ve made don’t put that out of reach for newcomers.
 
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I'm certainly looking forward to a bit more challenge with the patch and seeing the game moving in the right direction.

A bit of feedback as a feature I'd like to see in the economy is on the service fees offered in the game. I'd like the option to provide services such as healthcare or education for free or less fees- similar to the water and electricity fees set for citizens.

I'm not sure if this is the sort of feature that would get implemented but it's just something I think would make some city services more realistic.
 
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> we have also tied the types of companies that can inhabit commercial buildings more closely to the products citizens consume

Interesting. Will housing benefit by being near grocery stores then?
 
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Really appreciate the work that is being put in.

For the external services, I think a slider would be interesting. It would allow you direct control on how much of your budget you are spending on them, while also limiting the amount of help you are getting. As others have said, this option would be useful at the beginning of your city.

Secondly, for the unemployment benefits. If I understood the dev diary correctly, currently they are paid by the 'government'. It would be cool if you had to pay them yourself. This way you would be actively 'punished' for not providing enough employment opportunities.
we place a welfare office, which we then have a monthly cost to accommodate—but it might also be interesting to have a line item in the city budget for social welfare, with a slider that we can adjust like we do everything else. If unemployment is high crime will increase, and we’ll have an incentive to increase the budget for social services. As it is, the welfare office has a fixed cost, and it seems to help ameliorate high rent indicators.
 
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IMO buying services should be split into categories such us electricity, water, health services, etc. to give players more control
It doesn't apply to electricity, or water. Those you pay for if you use it.

They're talking about the free police, death care, ambulance and for trucks that come and help you out of you have none. That policy let's you disable those now.
 
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It would be really cool if some citizens could BUY their homes, and no longer live on rent. Another thing I thought about was the question that taxation based on education level should change and should be either based on income or density.
I think this is more tricky to simulate. Without much reward. Perhaps just think of the rent icon as a "high mortgage" icon. Meaning they'll have to move.
 
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(observations I've made over time about Cities: Skylines 2's taxes. I may be wrong on some, and others may appear in developer diaries in the future. Sorry for the huge text)

OBSERVATIONS ABOUT CITIES 2'S TAX SYSTEM

2 - Tax collection: The most wrong thing, in my humble opinion. Since before the game was released, I have been talking about how wrong it is to charge taxes based on a citizen's level of education, since EDUCATION DOES NOT MEAN WEALTH, and there are poorly educated rich people and very well educated poor people, and this applies to the game. It is not possible to charge taxes in a way that helps the poorest to move up the social class, since, in theory, the poorest would be the least educated, and the richest would be the most educated.
There are outliers in any standard bell curve, but the simple fact IRL (at least in the U.S.) is close correlation between educational outcomes and household income. On the one hand, it seems an odd choice, but on the other hand it’s very easy to use the terms synonymously and interchangeably.

In the game, education does not equal wealth either. When I click on individual citizens, I see poorly educated citizens who are wealthy and highly educated citizens whose wealth is “wretched” quite frequently. Also, since all citizens pay rent, wealth does not seem to be necessarily related to land value. Maybe what we need is more transparency about how these metrics relate to each other and how they are tabulated/accrued.
 
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(observations I've made over time about Cities: Skylines 2's taxes. I may be wrong on some, and others may appear in developer diaries in the future. Sorry for the huge text)

OBSERVATIONS ABOUT CITIES 2'S TAX SYSTEM

Well, this is something I've been complaining about since before the game's release: the economic system. They announced that the game would have a "mega complete super economic system" and indeed, it is very complete. But there are some strange things to note about this system.
1 - "High rent": Rent is not equivalent to tax. If rent is not equivalent to tax, does that mean that only a small part of the city has its own residence? Since, even though they reduce taxes, they still complain about high rent. And if you change the zoning of the area where the houses were complaining about high rent, it will take a long time (and a long time) to build medium-density buildings there.
To your point 1: no rent is not equivalent to tax, and it isn't so in the game. Rent is like the fee they have to pay to live in the house. You might as well equate it to their mortgage. You as the player don't see this money, they spend it. Taxes are what you get, that's like income tax for the cims.
So theoretically lowering taxes could mean they have more money available to pay rent and buy goods and upgrade their house (if the high rent system is working correctly).
 
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I would prefer a toggle for government subsidies and service import fees. I don't want to play with unlimited money, but I do like having a reasonable financial safety net.

I play city builders to chill out and create something functional and aesthetically pleasing. so I'm not really interested in a tough economic challenge.

But as I said, I find the unlimited money option feels too much like a cheat. I still want to know that my city is economically viable.. just without a harsh fail condition.
 
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Important question!

Will Economy 2.0 address children-only households in CS2? Children younger than teens cannot work and earn income, and they are many cases where we will have children alone in their households because seniors have died. If going by the dev diary, it will be really difficult for them to forcibly pay the rent and consider the garbage fees and shop for items.


As a result, will there be city services to address this, such as adoption centers?
children-only households seem illogical, but they do exist IRL. Speaking as a teacher who worked at a high school in a low-income zip code, I’ve seen it happen where some event will impact the ability of adults to properly care for children—and I’ve also seen instances where children were living alone for a short period. This is where social services should step in, but this is a realistic scenario.
 
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Can there be a limited time offering of city services at the beginning of making a new city? After hitting a certain milestone, that offering will be rescinded automatically.

City Services should be granular, because different towns and cities function differently when it comes to city services. Hopefully, we get to see more variety of city services which we can choose to import or export.
The city policy to import services becomes available at milestone 4: Grand Village and can then be toggled on and off as you need it.

This rework sounds good so far. When you say that industry has more workplaces, do you mean they employ more? (That would help with some realism).
Yes, more people can be employed in factories, though it's worth noting that companies can scale their workforce up and down depending on profits, so depending on how companies are doing in your city, you may not see an overall increase in people employed in industry.

Does this mean that now even if there is no demand for apartments, apartments will build if there is a high overall residential demand? So if there is a lot of low density demand, and a little high density demand but no low density zones and lots of high density zones, apartments will be built in the high density zones that are there?
No buildings will be constructed if there isn't any demand, but we expect that you will see more of a mix of the residential zone types than you had before. So if you struggled to get high density residential demand in your city, you should see an improvement after the patch is live.

Sounds like it might go into the right direction. Looking forward to the patch.

In regards to the imported city service: I like more options. If you can split it up and perhaps even give something like a maximum budget per month or similar to limit how much is imported, that would be great.

Is there also limiting factor put in place in regards to the exports of services? Like does the amount of money I get from exporting water and/or electricity get smaller the more I export? Basically simulating a demand outside the city.

Nothing is mentioned so far about some of the bigger bugs in the economy. I hope these will get fixed as well? For example this weird tax overflow bug or whatever it is, where you suddenly make billions from a single type of industry? Will we only hear about these fixes in the patch notes?
No limits to the export but that sounds like an interesting idea. I'll make a note to share with the design team, though no promises! ^^

As for tax overflow bug, that has been resolved with the economy re-work. We have a bunch more fixes in the patch which will be shared in the patch notes once the update is live.

Important question!

Will Economy 2.0 address children-only households in CS2? Children younger than teens cannot work and earn income, and they are many cases where we will have children alone in their households because seniors have died. If going by the dev diary, it will be really difficult for them to forcibly pay the rent and consider the garbage fees and shop for items.


As a result, will there be city services to address this, such as adoption centers?
No more orphaned children trying to survive in your city. Social services have found their closest relatives and they will move out of the city instead.

Does the policy work on the whole city only or per district as well? For satellite towns near the map borders, it might be better/easier to buy services from the outside, while the main city can provide services to itself.
It's city-wide and found in the City Policy panel.

This is welcomed news.

Feedback:

1) Any chance unemployment benefits become a slider toggle with a numerical value instead of a predefined set benefit?

This may be a too much micro management but it could also have a default option. I’m seeing good changes but I’m not seeing my intentional choices reflected. There’s more trade offs to consider but not direct input.

A few of questions:



Does this extend to the size of the property as well? For example, is there a cost difference between 2x2 low density and 6x6 low density?

I guess I’m asking because:



What do you all mean by type of household if not the zone type? I can only imagine size of lot as the unstated factor.
We'll look at the rent calculations in the next development diary, but the cost is affected by the lot size, so a 2x2 low density residential home would be cheaper than a 6x6 low density residential home (assuming all the other factors are the same of course).

As for household type, that refers to whether it's singles or families. As an example, education in your city affects which households spawn. Good elementary school coverage and capacity makes the city more appealing to families, while the ability to study at a college or university increases the likelihood of singles moving to your city.
 
Have you looked at logs of player behavior at all? I'm aware of many new players that couldn't get a city started as-is, with Government Subsidies. Without that as an option they'd have been way too frustrated, I think you should keep the option as one you can turn on or off at any time to save new players from themselves.

I don't think it needs to be set before you start (won't hurt), I think you'll have players dig themselves into a hole and look for a desperate way out. That's the time to ensure it's available so they're not forced to start over.
unlimited money aka sandbox mode
 
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Ok so for the demand part. Let's start with commercial. It sounds like we should need less commercial zones? The problem i have in this game, is that the commercial demand is always sooo high, that it feels like I'm zoning more commercial then residential. When that happens, I tend to resort to building a large area of only commercial (which I probably shouldn't)

Also a problem I have with commercial is that the commercial parking lots are too empty all the time. Does anyone work there? Does anyone shop there? Is this business making money? If they are not shopping, what are they doing? These are the questions I'm wondering, when I see empty parking lots. Citizens shouldn't choose street parking over available parking at the business.

Now, For the residential demand. Currently I don't like that once the city gets kinda big. The demand for low density gets non-existent. It looks like you guys fixed that. A real city is mostly low density. The way I like to play is have low density covering the majority of the map, and have my mid/high density typically by the water on the coast.


It looks like you guys are going in the right direction and making progress. Definitely keep up the great work.
 
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"We still aim for the game to be playable without paying too much attention to where and how money and resources flow in the city so new players have a chance to succeed".

So in other words not much will change in terms of challenge. I don't understand why they are so obsessed with keeping making this game so easy, unpunishing and unchallenging when we already have the infinite money option.
Forgive me, but it seems to me you didn’t read the details of the diary post. There are significant changes to how income and expenses are accrued and calculated. The simple reality is that veteran players will always find a hard mode easy. That was the case with CS1 as well.

Their task is to satisfy a loyal fan base who want a more challenging experience while simultaneously making the game accessible for new players. Seems to me we could all afford them a bit of grace while they attempt to figure that out.
 
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