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Economy 2.0 Dev Diary #1

Hello again! We are back with another development diary. This time we look at the economy re-work or as we like to call it “Economy 2.0” set to release within the upcoming two weeks. You’ve shared a lot of great feedback with us, from bringing bugs to our attention to sharing how you feel while playing the game. As we went through your feedback, it became clear that certain systems, particularly the economic simulation, weren’t transparent enough and didn’t allow you enough control over your city. We felt this was important to improve, so for the past few months, we have overhauled several systems based on your feedback.

Before we get into the nitty-gritty of these changes, we want to thank you for the detailed and constructive feedback you shared. It really helped us understand what issues you experienced, what information you lacked, and how we could improve things. We look forward to hearing your feedback following these changes so we can continue to work on improving Cities: Skylines II and make it the best it possibly can be.

Alright, let’s get to it! Our goal with Economy 2.0 was to make the systems more straightforward and responsive, so you can make more meaningful choices and have more control over the various gameplay aspects. This means fewer safeguards and automated systems that work invisibly under the surface and an increased level of challenge. We still aim for the game to be playable without paying too much attention to where and how money and resources flow in the city so new players have a chance to succeed, while still leaving room for experienced players to benefit from optimizing their city. We’ll get into the details below but to give you a quick overview here are the major changes of Economy 2.0:

  • Government Subsidies have been removed to make the economy more challenging and transparent
  • Importing City Services from Outside Connections now has a toggle and a fee
  • City Service Upkeep costs have been increased
  • Calculations for Demand have been improved
  • New calculations for rent and household spending allow citizens to afford to live in Low Density Residential
  • The production chain has been rebalanced to bring tax income to a more reasonable level


THE ECONOMY
A key point in the feedback we received was that the game didn’t challenge many of you when it comes to managing the city’s finances. Striking the right balance is hard. We want new players to be able to dive into the game while still providing players from Cities: Skylines or long-term fans of the city-building genre a challenge. We introduced Government Subsidies in Cities: Skylines II to act as a helping hand as your city got established, allowing them to scale with expenses. But they also removed agency and consequences from the game. Why build a city with a well-balanced economy if the government will cover all the expenses of your Utopia?

We considered several approaches to Government Subsidies but in the end, we decided to completely remove them from the city budget. This puts you in full control of your city’s finances and gives you a reason to consider what you spend your money on and when. It will be up to you to create a profitable city, and when you succeed, you get to take all the credit. If you struggle to get the hang of it, the in-game tutorials are there to help you out and the tips can always be accessed through the Advisor (the question mark in the top-right corner of the screen). And of course, you can always ask us or your fellow players for help.

MONEY
Money makes the world, or in this case the city, go round. In Cities: Skylines II, money circulates both within the city and in and out of the simulation through money sources and sinks. We work with 4 entities in Cities: Skylines II:
  • You, the player/the city
  • Households
  • Companies
  • Abstracted investors

Each of these has ways they can gain or lose money, some of which are preset and automatic, some of which are within your control. Below we have a quick overview of these to give you a sense of how money flows in your city, and how you can affect it.

Money.png


CITY SERVICES
As you can see, City Service construction and upkeep, along with roads of course, are where most (if not all) of your money goes. In Economy 2.0 we’ve rebalanced the costs of City Services which includes a significant increase in the upkeep costs. Our goal here is to give your choices more meaning as your city grows. Is your city’s economy strong enough to afford a University or will you have to increase taxes to pay for it? Can you afford to improve the city’s mail service to make citizens happy or will that have to wait until your economy is more stable? These are the kinds of questions we hope you will be asking yourself as you play with the update.

But services aren’t just available locally in your city. Your neighbors can provide you with garbage trucks or ambulances from Outside Connections if your city isn’t quite able to provide those for your citizens yet. With our initial design, the only cost of importing services (excluding Electricity and Water and Sewage) was the time it took the service vehicles to arrive and perform the needed tasks. Economy 2.0 changes that by adding a fee for importing services, which scales with the city’s population.

Now, we can’t add a fee and not give you a way to avoid it, so we have added a new City Policy called Import City Services. It works as a toggle: When it’s enabled your city can and will import services that are lacking in your city, and when it’s disabled, which is the default, your city relies on what’s available locally. In its current form, it’s an all-or-nothing toggle, but we are considering expanding the service import to give you more control. What do you think, any particular direction you would like us to take? We’d love to hear your thoughts.

CityPolicy.png

City Policies can be found by clicking the City Information button next to the demand bars


LIFE IN THE CITY
While we call this systems rework “Economy 2.0” it affects more than just the economic simulation. To complement both the changes to the financial side of the game and the improvements to the Land Value system in patch 1.1.0f1, we’ve made improvements to Demand, Rent, Education, and Citizen Happiness. These changes affect your citizens’ lives, and how and where they choose to live.

DEMAND
Most noticeable are the changes to how Demand is calculated, allowing it to be more responsive and more accurately reflect the state of the city at any given time. Residential demand has been expanded so the desired density is tied to the size and wealth of households. On average low density residential is the most expensive type of housing as a single household is responsible for the building’s expenses (paying Rent and Upkeep), while residents in medium and high density can split the costs. When wealthier households move into the city, the demand for low density increases, and when citizens with lower wealth, such as students, want to move in, the demand for high density goes up. Similarly, families will want more space, preferring low or medium density homes, while singles are perfectly happy with the smaller homes found in high density apartment complexes.

The type of households that spawn are determined by the average citizen happiness, homelessness in the city, the residential tax rates, available education spots, and open job positions.

Turning our attention to commercial demand, it’s now more closely tied to what households need. The more households consume, the more demand for commercial zones you’ll see. We’ve tweaked the household need for shopping, forcing them to pay rent and consider the garbage fee before going shopping. Furthermore, we have also tied the types of companies that can inhabit commercial buildings more closely to the products citizens consume. This means you’re less likely to see a bunch of the same companies spawn as the simulation seeks to provide a more varied selection of products for your citizens.

Both office and industry demand have been adjusted to a more reasonable level to match the other zone types, and their interactions with commercial have been strengthened, so you can produce what your shops need locally. Additionally, industry now has more workplaces so you can satisfy the demand more easily.

EDUCATION AND WORK
We’ve made tweaks to education before, particularly to encourage more teens to go to high school, but we didn’t quite reach our goals, so Economy 2.0 includes further improvements to the education system. Children always go to elementary school if the city has one with available student spots, while teens have a high chance of going to high school. Some will still choose to work, especially if no school is available, but you should see more teens in high school. We’ve also improved the chance they graduate from both elementary and high school, and for those adults who didn’t get their high school diploma, there is now a chance, albeit low, to apply to a high school with available student spots so that they can graduate.

Teens and adults can both join the workforce if there are suitable jobs for them. However, if they have health problems, such as being sick or injured, they don’t count as employable citizens and will need to recover before they can work. They may find work in the city, if any job positions with their skill level or lower are available, or they may resort to finding work in a neighboring city, though working in Outside Connections is less desirable with this rework.

If they cannot find work, they become unemployed and receive unemployment from the government. However, this option is only available for a limited time, so if you don’t provide them with suitable jobs, they will eventually have no other option than to leave the city as they cannot pay their rent.


BUILDING A BUSINESS
Your city consists of more than just citizens though, many businesses make it their home too, and demand isn’t the only thing we tweaked for commercial, industry, and office. Let’s take a look at what else has changed, starting with production. You already know the basics: One or more input resources are processed and turned into a more refined product, which requires both workers and time. Higher education level workers do this more efficiently (they work smarter, not harder), and each product has a certain amount of work needed to produce one unit. Previously, the game calculated the amount of work needed at the start of the game, but we have changed that to a preconfigured amount to make the game more predictable and allow us to finetune things. Additionally, we have adjusted the amount of work needed to produce a single unit for all products reducing the overall production, which in turn reduces the company profits, and by extension, the amount of tax you can collect from them.

But that’s not all. The price of resources has been adjusted as well as how it’s calculated. It now has two parts: A discounted price paid by industrial companies when they purchase materials for their production, and a normal price for commercial companies to purchase the goods. The two prices are then combined into one as they’re sold to consumers, allowing everyone to profit (hopefully, at least) from the sales. But don’t worry about the consumers, we have also increased the wages companies pay so the citizens can afford both their homes and the resources they need.

Alright, that was a lot of information! With that, we’ll end today’s dev diary, but don’t miss part 2 coming next week where we look at Rent, Building Upgrades, and what happens to existing cities. In the meantime, we’d love to hear your thoughts on what’s to come. Any changes you’re particularly excited about? Any that leave you with questions? Let us know in the comments below.
 
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As we went through your feedback, it became clear that certain systems, particularly the economic simulation, weren’t transparent enough

What is being done in this patch to address this problem?

I hope new UI screens, more information, more details.

If I click on a household, I want to know everything about them. How much they earn, how much they spend on rent or education or transport. Are they happy about their house? The services in the neighbourhood? Is there enough parking available?

Same for businesses and industries.
 
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Good job but please do not make the same mistake twice. We arrived to this point because people were frustrated by the lack of challenge and you are already considering to reintroduce subsidies only because some player is unable to click the "unlimited money" box?

Please don't downgrade the game again to the point of being meaningless and make a a big disclaimer on the main menu:" game too hard? Use the UNLIMITED MONEY CHECKBOX!"

Thank you and keep up with these great changes!
 
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Does this mean that we will finally actually see any level 4 and 5 high density residential buildings with the new patch?
 
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Good evening everyone,

This is really good news. Finally, a bit more realism and difficulty that is closer to the real world. As mayor, I am finally becoming more responsible towards my people that I want to help, see evolve or, on the contrary, make unhappy.

I really hope that the economy will make sense and give the same excitement that we had during the post-release videos.

I reset my PC, so I lost my cities and it will be a good opportunity to start a new one on a healthy basis.

I must admit that I leave the asset mods aside for fear of seeing my city broken later. I am content with the code mods.
 
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This sounds wonderful! I'm hoping this patch pushes the need to start your city off with an industry. I would love to be forced to create more farms to keep my economy going.
 
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Now we're talking.

This is differently a patch in the right direction. Hopefully we get to play this over the summer, because now it sounds like a game I can accept play, especially if they fix a few old standing bugs, then it would be something worth playing over the summer.

Thanks for (finally) being transparent and listening to feedback, although it took a while to scream you up, and trust has to be earned, so deliver this and the next few patches in a good quality and in the right direction and then we can finally start looking forward.
 
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No. It really isn’t. Your response here is what we call toxicity.
I'm referring to the save data. You will need to restart your city, otherwise your current city won't be playable without significant modifications or go through some migration process. Unless you're referring to something else?

rRMuI3F.png
 
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Have you looked at logs of player behavior at all? I'm aware of many new players that couldn't get a city started as-is, with Government Subsidies. Without that as an option they'd have been way too frustrated, I think you should keep the option as one you can turn on or off at any time to save new players from themselves.

I don't think it needs to be set before you start (won't hurt), I think you'll have players dig themselves into a hole and look for a desperate way out. That's the time to ensure it's available so they're not forced to start over.
I concur. This kind of "Rescue Float", provided by "the Goverment" would be very good option.

It could be dressed similarly as the current financial issues with the new 'wellbeing services counties' ('hyvinvointialueet') in Finland, where they have overspent their healthcare budgets and the government may take over the county and merge it with another, economically more feasible county, ending the existence of that county for good.

In CS2, this occurrence could punish the player by "government bailing out" the city; taking partially over the city's budget autonomy and temporarily forcing budgetary cuts in many "niceties", such as leisure, entertainment and parks (extra taxes), tourism (increased hotel tax, inbound travel ticket surcharges) etc.
When the budget is back in balance and the city can again run on its own, the "government" would restore the city's budgetary autonomy, allowing the player to take charge again.

This would be different from the loans in CS1. There the player must just gradually pay back the loan, but has total freedom on where to save to otherwise get that money. In CS2 case, the forced cuts would be targeted to non-vital functions of the city (i.e. "nice-to-have" but non-essential).

In a real pinch the city perhaps would have to "sell real estate to the government" - one (or more) purchased map tile(s) woud be taken away from the player and all city items (roads, buildings, etc.) would be deleted from that tile without compensation. When the player later buys back that tile, it would be just raw map base.
 
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Finally, the much awaited "git gud" patch. I'll probably still wait for console release as the real 1.0 milestone. (Still plan to play on PC, but console release implies meeting certain performance standards.)
 
As many said before sounds good. I think the most glaring issue is not to have a more granular import service toggle, so you can decide what to import. Also I’m wondering, are simulation performance improvements being included in this patch? Because that, is a major problem of the game.

PD: I’m surprised you announce the patch for the next couple of weeks, instead of a specific day. The patch is around the corner but you don’t know which day you are releasing it yet?
 
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PD: I’m surprised you announce the patch for the next couple of weeks, instead of a specific day. The patch is around the corner but you don’t know which day you are releasing it yet?
They did say they need to wait for certifications to get it released on Microsoft, Steam, and GeForce Now. Those can wildly take a couple of days, without any ETAs on how long they are guaranteed to take. If they got sent back with findings that they need to address, the devs have to go back and fix them up and redo the certification process again.
 
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So you aim for the game to be a city painter? I really do not understand this. You have the unlimited money toggle for that. If you do not choose that toggle, the game should be difficult, without failsafes, and provide a challenge. That is what makes me return to games: I did something wrong, I'll try again to make it work. Sometimes I just want to paint a city, and then I can use the unlimited money toggle.
False dichotomy. There is a certain area between "city-painter with unlimited money" and "hardcore city simulation that needs an economics degree". A punitive difficulty is not attractive to most people (just like no difficulty at all is boring for many). Even a "painted" city should work, unless the mistakes made are too egregious - real cities are far from perfect after all.

I think the toggle should be expanded: once you unlock a particular city service through the progression tree, an extra suboption becomes available for that service. You can then choose to either build the service yourself, or import it. At first the import fee is low and it takes time for services to arrive. Once your city grows it becomes harder and harder to import services (because of the fee, and because of the sheer number of ambulances, police cars ... that gets imported. But this way, you can make the choice how to build your city, balance the budget, and decide when it's the time to build a service and stop importing.
This one I can agree with. The toggle should really be there for each service separately.


Hence this will not work:
Now, we can’t add a fee and not give you a way to avoid it, so we have added a new City Policy called Import City Services. It works as a toggle: When it’s enabled your city can and will import services that are lacking in your city, and when it’s disabled, which is the default, your city relies on what’s available locally. In its current form, it’s an all-or-nothing toggle, but we are considering expanding the service import to give you more control. What do you think, any particular direction you would like us to take? We’d love to hear your thoughts.
If the toggle is all-or-nothing, it will place an undue burden on the city during the time where some, but not all services exist in the city yet. If you have a police station but no hospital, why should you be forced to pay for police just to also receive ambulances? Maybe even assign the external services to specific districts, though that one takes it a bit far.
 
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Another comment about the patch, are you also increasing the number of jobs on offices as well? They have ridiculously few. Also getting skyscrapers to be built should be more difficult.

They did say they need to wait for certifications to get it released on Microsoft, Steam, and GeForce Now. Those can wildly take a couple of days, without any ETAs on how long they are guaranteed to take. If they got sent back with findings that they need to address, the devs have to go back and fix them up and redo the certification process again.
Thanks for the info. Still, patches seem to be announced in other games with a specific date even months before of the release. Only CS2 has to go through these certifications?
 
False dichotomy. There is a certain area between "city-painter with unlimited money" and "hardcore city simulation that needs an economics degree". A punitive difficulty is not attractive to most people (just like no difficulty at all is boring for many). Even a "painted" city should work, unless the mistakes made are too egregious - real cities are far from perfect after all.


This one I can agree with. The toggle should really be there for each service separately.


Hence this will not work:

If the toggle is all-or-nothing, it will place an undue burden on the city during the time where some, but not all services exist in the city yet. If you have a police station but no hospital, why should you be forced to pay for police just to also receive ambulances? Maybe even assign the external services to specific districts, though that one takes it a bit far.
Local services will take priority simply because of distance needed to cover. So if you have enough ambulances available, you won't pay a penny.
 
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What is being done in this patch to address this problem?

I hope new UI screens, more information, more details.

If I click on a household, I want to know everything about them. How much they earn, how much they spend on rent or education or transport. Are they happy about their house? The services in the neighbourhood? Is there enough parking available?

Same for businesses and industries.
Agree - overlays and data maps (on-map bar graphs?) and charts at granular level as well as info panels for individual buildings would be great!
 
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We love the new information. Thanks guys...

- Today I miss knowing how much I'm spending on imports and exports of inputs, raw materials and products for industries and commerce like in CS1

- We need a city law where teenagers prefer to study rather than work or vice versa.

- Upgrading residential buildings: The higher the level, wealth, the larger the lot size should be.

- Updating commercial/industrial buildings: The higher the level and profitability, the larger the lot size should be and consequently the greater the number of job vacancies.

- The updating of buildings in general: We missed a small animation in addition to an upward arrow, as if a renovation in buildings, a city in constant evolution is normal to see works and renovations happening and a sign that things are going the way right path there.

- Influence of land value: It would be immensely comfortable to see that by placing a parking lot close to a commercial area, or a park nearby
In the residential area, see the buildings upgrading to a new level, with richer families, more updated businesses and larger industries taking shape and occupying the city.

- I'm still confused about taxes on commercial and industrial products. If I increase taxes on a product, consequently fewer companies in that sector should enter the city and there seems to be no effect.
 
But you raise a good point. I like the idea of perhaps having a trade school so that people that don't want to go to college can go there instead of a high school. Enough trade school graduates could give your city some kind of bonus in industrial efficiency, faster construction time, cheaper road upkeep, etc.
WHAT??! There are no trade schools?? Really?
CO: Please. Fix it. Now.
Skilled laborers are a thing IRL. You know: road workers, construction workers, retail cashiers, firemen... A huge section of the work force! They do not come out from high schools or universities. In CS2: Do they?
 
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