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Economy 2.0 Dev Diary #2

Welcome back to the second dev diary detailing the changes coming in the next patch. If you missed it, check out the first part here. Today we are covering a few important changes not directly related to the economy and we’ll go over what you can expect when loading up your existing cities.

Let’s start with Rent. Most likely you have run into complaints of “High Rent” in the game, so let’s talk about it. To complement the Land Value changes in patch 1.1.0f1 in March, we have tweaked how Rent works. First of all, we removed the virtual landlord so a building’s upkeep is now paid equally by all renters. Second, we changed the way rent is calculated. For those interested, the calculation looks like this:

Rent = (LandValue + (ZoneType * Building Level)) * LotSize * SpaceMultiplier

This of course affects the “High Rent” notifications you may have encountered, but we’ve tweaked those directly as well, so they are now based on the household’s income. That means that even if they currently don’t have enough money in their balance to pay rent, they won’t complain and will instead spend less money on resource consumption. Only when their income is too low to be able to pay rent will they complain about “High Rent” and look for cheaper housing or move out of the city.

Besides rent, households and companies need to pay for the building’s upkeep, which in turn affects the level of the building. When they pay the full upkeep fee, the building condition increases by a constant amount until the building levels up and the tenants start paying towards the next level. Similarly, if they cannot pay it, the building condition decreases by the same amount until it’s in such poor condition it collapses.

BUILDING UPGRADES UNLEASHED
From zoned buildings automatically leveling up to the City Service building upgrades you choose and place manually. While this update doesn’t directly relate to the Economy 2.0, it shares the same patch and deserves a little spotlight. Gone are the days when you had to bulldoze the entire building to remove, or just move, an upgrade. Now, all upgrades can be removed by selecting the building, finding the upgrade in the Selected Info Panel, and clicking the bin icon.

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Deactivate or delete Extensions or relocate Sub-buildings through the Selected Info Panel

For sub-buildings, there’s even more control. They can also be removed using the bulldozer, you can pick them up and move them, or turn them on and off as needed. Moving them is particularly handy now as they don’t have to be placed in connection to the main building. As long as they are within the predefined radius and have pedestrian and/or road access, they will work like before. Sub-buildings like the Elementary School Playground just need a pedestrian path connecting them to the rest of the city, while sub-buildings like the Bus Depot Extra Garage will need road access to function. We’re excited to see how you take advantage of this new freedom in your cities, so don’t hesitate to tag us on social media if you’re showing off screenshots.


EXISTING CITIES
Now you might wonder how all of this affects your existing cities, so let’s get the most obvious question out of the way first. Saves from before the economy rework still work, though we expect they will have a transition period as the simulation adapts to the changes. When it comes to modded saves, we can’t make any guarantees, but keep an eye out for updates or instructions from the modders. Mods that affect the simulation are likely to be affected by the update.

When you load up your city (and unpause) there are a few things you should keep in mind. With Government Subsidies removed and City Service upkeep increased, the cost of running your city just increased. If your city relies on ambulances, hearses, fire engines, police cars, and garbage trucks coming from Outside Connection, make sure to enable the Import City Services policy in the City Information panel, but don’t forget that your neighbors charge a fee to help you out. All this is expected to create a negative money trend, but depending on your city’s finances, your tax income might be enough to offset the new costs once the calculations catch up. If you’re struggling for money, don’t forget that you can increase taxes, reduce service budgets, or temporarily turn buildings off to save on their upkeep cost.

Demand adjusts quite quickly, so don’t be alarmed if some of your demand bars empty or fill up when you start playing. With the increase in industrial manufacturing space, your industry will be on a hiring spree that’s likely to drive up your residential demand - unless your city has workers already looking for a job. We recommend giving it some time though as companies (commercial, industrial, and office) readjust their production and employee numbers to be profitable, which we expect will overall lead to an increase in unemployment in your city.

With the new calculations for residential density demand, your citizens may also start looking for different types of housing or move around the city. Thankfully, the new calculations for rent and resource consumption should help them afford the type of housing they prefer, and we expect most (if not all) of your “High Rent” notifications will disappear after letting the simulation run for a while. If you keep seeing these or they start to come back, then make sure to check your unemployment and provide citizens with jobs so that they can pay their rent.

With time and some tweaks, your existing cities should adjust to the changes, so you can get back to realizing their full potential. And as always, don’t hesitate to ask for help if you encounter any situations you’re unsure of how to handle and report any bugs you might run into here.


WHAT’S NEXT?
Before we finish for today, we’d like to share our plans going forward. We will of course follow discussions and read feedback you share as you play with these changes. We’ve done extensive testing to get the changes as balanced as possible, but we know that some tweaking will likely still be necessary once you all start sharing your experiences.

We’ve already started work on the next major patch which we hope to have ready for you in Q3, and we want to give you a little sneak peek at what you can expect. As previously mentioned, we want to expand the service import to bring you more control. We’re also looking at what we can improve in the UI and how the game relays information to you, so you have everything you need to solve issues in the game. We’d love to hear your thoughts on this topic. Are there any issues you’ve struggled to solve in your city? Any information you have been looking for but weren’t able to find?

Last, but definitely not least, the art team has been cooking up some new free buildings for you all. We appreciate each and every one of you for sticking with us and giving us a chance to make Cities: Skylines II what it can and should be. Your patience and support mean the world to us and we hope the new service buildings and vehicles can serve as a token of our appreciation. Thank you for being a part of our community!

NewStuff.png

A sneak peek at some of the new service buildings and vehicles you can look forward to
 
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About those new buildings, are you going to add elevated metro stations?

Also it would be great to have more flexibility with underground metro stations, now that we have more freedom with sub buildings. It would be great to freely add new platforms for more lines.
 
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Looking forward to the updates!! Had a question I don’t think I’ve seen an answer to just yet. With the change in the number of workplaces for industry, will we also see a change/increase in the number of workplaces for offices, specifically the high density offices? Thanks!
 
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Looking forward to the update! As for providing information to the player, it would be great if the units for income were consistent throughout all the UI elements. At the moment there's different units ($/hour and $/month) in the main screen, economy tab, and building upkeeps and maybe it's just me, but I feel like they should all be the same.
 
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About those new buildings, are you going to add elevated metro stations?

Also it would be great to have more flexibility with underground metro stations, now that we have more freedom with sub buildings. It would be great to freely add new platforms for more lines.
We're still finalizing the list of upcoming buildings, so I can't reveal what's included just yet. But those sound like great ideas, so I'll make sure they at least go on our community wishlist. This likely won't be the last time we add more buildings as a free update. :)

Looking forward to the updates!! Had a question I don’t think I’ve seen an answer to just yet. With the change in the number of workplaces for industry, will we also see a change/increase in the number of workplaces for offices, specifically the high density offices? Thanks!
Not in this patch, but we'll continue to look at the feedback and see where we can make improvements. I'll make sure to share this with the design team!

So when is the actual patch coming?
We don't have a date yet, but we're still looking at the previously shared release window (so between now and June 19th)
 
Let’s start with Rent. Most likely you have run into complaints of “High Rent” in the game, so let’s talk about it. To complement the Land Value changes in patch 1.1.0f1 in March, we have tweaked how Rent works. First of all, we removed the virtual landlord so a building’s upkeep is now paid equally by all renters. Second, we changed the way rent is calculated. For those interested, the calculation looks like this:

Rent = (LandValue + (ZoneType * Building Level)) * LotSize * SpaceMultiplier

This of course affects the “High Rent” notifications you may have encountered, but we’ve tweaked those directly as well, so they are now based on the household’s income. That means that even if they currently don’t have enough money in their balance to pay rent, they won’t complain and will instead spend less money on resource consumption. Only when their income is too low to be able to pay rent will they complain about “High Rent” and look for cheaper housing or move out of the city.

1. Rent being equal for all residents is a reasonable simplification at this stage, yes. Sure, there's buildings with both 1-bedroom & 4 bedroom apartments, and those have different rents, but such detail can wait.

2. The rent calculation seems reasonable. I'm assuming the "building level" part includes the landlords cut etc now?

3. Am I reading it right that the residents will start looking for cheaper housing when rent reaches 100% of their income? Rent at over X % should make people complain and want to move (I don't remember the number in my head, but it is way before 100%. Gotta eat and be able to get to work etc too).
Or maybe that's what you meant?
 
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1) Will the families / citizens now actively look for affordable housing instead of just complaining like they do now?
2) There is a lot of information what game omits and doesn't show. My biggest issue is with the unemployment data, which doesn't show the info based on education levels. One tab with Total amount of people in each education class, total amount of jobs for that education class and the difference. Now you can have 15% unemployment and lack of workers at the same time, but you got no idea which groups this involves. You can see the lack of workers from the workplace overlay but you'd have to assume which ones are the ones with high unemployment.

Also import / export data is somewhat abstract showing percentage rather than actual tons. You need to piecemeal a full picture from several places and that's not very fun.

Edit: Oh, and please stop the nonsense with building model changing with building level updates. It doesn't work like that in reality, it's not good looking either. And it reduces the amount of building models we have in our disposal. Initial building should always remain more or less the same, add some props / fine tune some small extension etc. but don't change the whole building. This way for example the beach properties would have added substantially more house models _permanently_ into your city rather than the 6 level 5 models.
 
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co_avanya said:
We’re also looking at what we can improve in the UI and how the game relays information to you, so you have everything you need to solve issues in the game. We’d love to hear your thoughts on this topic. Are there any issues you’ve struggled to solve in your city? Any information you have been looking for but weren’t able to find?

  • The ability to create priority roads much like CS1's Mass Transit DLC. This is one of a few things with the new road system that isn't intuitive enough (for me, at least) to know where a road starts and where a road ends, and how much of a priority this road should be compared to all other roads connecting to it. One aspect related to this is where the game starts and ends a road. Currently, if the road angles aren't big enough, the road will continue on, but with larger angles, the road is split into 2 different roads. Couldn't we design a main road that goes all around the city?
  • Same with CS1's Mass Transit DLC, I would like for more information about all of the vehicles heading to their destinations as part of the traffic flows infographic flowing through the road. In Mass Transit, when you click on a road, you get to see all the arrows drawn on the screen that shows all of the vehicle's intended destination going through that road. I missed that so much.
 
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Can we get a future update that adds worn and torn decal textures to buildings and roads that are in bad condition. Cities skylines 1 really showed us how abandoned buildings looked actually abandoned.
 
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First of all, we removed the virtual landlord so a building’s upkeep is now paid equally by all renters. Second, we changed the way rent is calculated. For those interested, the calculation looks like this:

Rent = (LandValue + (ZoneType * Building Level)) * LotSize * SpaceMultiplier

This of course affects the “High Rent” notifications you may have encountered, but we’ve tweaked those directly as well, so they are now based on the household’s income. That means that even if they currently don’t have enough money in their balance to pay rent, they won’t complain and will instead spend less money on resource consumption. Only when their income is too low to be able to pay rent will they complain about “High Rent” and look for cheaper housing or move out of the city.

Besides rent, households and companies need to pay for the building’s upkeep, which in turn affects the level of the building. When they pay the full upkeep fee, the building condition increases by a constant amount until the building levels up and the tenants start paying towards the next level. Similarly, if they cannot pay it, the building condition decreases by the same amount until it’s in such poor condition it collapses.
Finally. A formula!
Thumbs up for that.

Now, of course the question arises a) why to have a "SpaceMultiplier" and b) which values it may have.
If it were a constant, it wouldn't make any sense to have it at all, so there have to be differences here. But we do have "ZoneType" as well, so what do "ZoneType" and "SpaceMultiplier" exactly do?

Next point would be the actions people are taking when rent is too high. You make them reduce their "normal life spendings" which to me looks strange. I think the typical behaviour would be to look for cheaper accomodation instead of reducing your lifestyle.

And then, I don't understand why tenants would have to pay for upkeep. That is covered by their rent in normal life. To me it looks like an unnecessary additional calculation step as now it has to be done several times per multi-party building. That seems to be overly complicated.

In total: provided that the patch will work when released it looks like a step in the right direction. But just as a step and there is still a long way to go.
According to your words the next "major" patch (whatever that will mean) is expected to come out in at least three months time from now. Not sure that is a wise decision, but you certainly will learn about the players reactions.
 
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Checking the dev diary notes, I havent seen any mention on whether this patch will bring performance improvments.

Is it just assumed there are performance improvments coming with the patch, or does the fact that there has been no mention mean there are no performance improvments coming?
 
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Edit: Oh, and please stop the nonsense with building model changing with building level updates. It doesn't work like that in reality, it's not good looking either. And it reduces the amount of building models we have in our disposal. Initial building should always remain more or less the same, add some props / fine tune some small extension etc. but don't change the whole building. This way for example the beach properties would have added substantially more house models _permanently_ into your city rather than the 6 level 5 models.
But I want full upgrades though. I liked that aspect of the game, and I don't really care if it's not realistic. I just wanted to see what buildings they will look like when they level up to level 6, and I wanted to do it without mods or enabling cheats.

Is it just assumed there are performance improvments coming with the patch, or does the fact that there has been no mention mean there are no performance improvments coming?
I don't think performance improvements are the main focus of the economy patch. It's all about the economy.
 
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Will you guys ever add a separate industrial zoning for manufacturing or warehouses with little to no pollution that can be placed in cities that wont cause major harm to its residents? You see this in many places like Lockhart FL and Jersey Village, TX.
 
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Checking the dev diary notes, I havent seen any mention on whether this patch will bring performance improvments.

This patch touches big parts of the economic simulations. I would expect an extensive list of bug fixes related to the economy in addition to the changes and improvements which could have an impact on performance as well. But as others have stated, this patch is not performance focused.
 
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10 months.

It took you all 10 months to get the state of the game to *approximately* where it should have been at release.

And you placate us with a janky looking water tower and more "free buildings". No wonder you can't seem to keep players.
 
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Great stuff. Can't wait to try these changes.

I may be in a minority but I actually look forward to see my existing save go totally haywire while I try to fix things :)

Some other minor but visually important stuff that hasn't been mentioned for a long while. May I ask what is the status for:
- building/services/park animations
- grass (when zoomed in)
- fixing of all snow shaders on every surface.
 
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